What you said is a paradox.
The majority text is the result of the Roman Imperial Church.
Jesus is God !
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
The majority text is the result of the Roman Imperial Church.
Not hardly !
Most definitely. Even a mild study of history will demonstrate that the majority text is heavily influenced by the Imperial Roman Church.
And if you're talking about the Textus Receptus . . . that's far worse.
Tigger 2
Active member
Quoted From Ps. 45
In addition to the above admissions by trinitarian translators and scholars concerning Heb. 1:8, we need to look back at the Old Testament Hebrew scripture (Ps. 45:6) that Paul was quoting when he wrote Heb. 1:8.
The RSV renders it as “Your Divine throne” and a footnote provides this alternate
reading: “Or ‘your throne is a throne of God.’”
The NRSV says in a footnote: “Or ‘your throne is a throne of God.’”
The NEB says: “Your throne is like God’s throne.”
The Holy Scriptures (JPS version) says: “Thy throne given of God.”
The Bible in Living English (Byington) says: “God is your throne.”
New International Reader’s Version (NIRV): “Your throne is the very throne of God.”
The Good News Bible (GNB), a trinitarian paraphrase Bible, renders it: “The kingdom
that God has given you will last forever and ever.”
The REB has: “God has enthroned you for all eternity.”
The NJB gives us: “your throne is from God.”
Leeser - “Thy throne, given of God, endureth for ever”
We also see the following statement by respected trinitarian scholars in a footnote for this passage:
“45:6 O God. Possibly the king’s throne is called God’s throne because he is God’s appointed regent. But it is also possible that the king himself is addressed as ‘god.’” - Ps. 45:6 f.n. in the NIV Study Bible (1985).
In addition to the above renderings by many respected translators (most of whom are trinitarian), we have the statement by a noted scholar of Biblical Hebrew, H. F. W. Gesenius. In his famous and highly respected Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament Gesenius renders Ps. 45:6, “thy throne shall be a divine throne.”
Wrong again.
Right Divider
Body part
There is NO evidence that Paul wrote Hebrews.
There is a great deal of evidence that Paul did NOT write Hebrews.
Paul confirms Christ's deity at every turn. Like this passage:
That passage refers to this passage:
Paul also refers to it here:
The judgement seat of Christ is the judgement seat of God!
Regardless of the controversy over 1Jn. 5:7,8 there are many scriptures that support the trinity. I have been confident in the KJV for over 50 years, and if you’re comfortable slicing and dicing the Bible then by all means set yourself up as an authority. Personally my confidence and faith is in God, and though I have tried to study modern translations God teaches me all I need from the KJV.
Well, at least you agree that there is a controversy over the passage although you haven't made a decision about the passage yourself. I embrace the entire Bible, intact, in the original manuscripts.
Are you fluent in Greek Hebrew, and Aramaic ? Everyone removes God from the KJV translation even though it was the widest distributed among the English speaking world until the new and supposedly improved translations started making inroads. I have not seen the rewards of a supposedly more perfect Bible. As our world hurries toward destruction by allowing and making every possible excuse for what God calls abominable.
Do you believe in cockatrices and unicorns? Do you travel with a rooster for protection? Have you ever bothered to read the preface to the KJV?
I still believe the KJV is far closer to the originals than the modern translations , and yes I have read the preface to the KJV
Tigger 2
Active member
RD quotes Ro. 14:10 as
Rom 14:10-12 KJV But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
But this is another error of the Received Text.
Even most trinitarian Bibles reject "judgment seat of Christ."
The trinitarian United Bible Societies (UBS) tells us: "At an early date (Marcion Polycarp Tertullian Origen) the reading theou ['of God'], which is supported by the best witnesses (Aleph A B C D ...), was supplanted by xristou ['of Christ']" - A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, UBS, 1971.
Rom 14:10-12 KJV But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
But this is another error of the Received Text.
Even most trinitarian Bibles reject "judgment seat of Christ."
The trinitarian United Bible Societies (UBS) tells us: "At an early date (Marcion Polycarp Tertullian Origen) the reading theou ['of God'], which is supported by the best witnesses (Aleph A B C D ...), was supplanted by xristou ['of Christ']" - A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, UBS, 1971.
OZOS
Well-known member
Christ is God. God is Christ. If you have seen Christ, you have seen God.
Right Divider
Body part
The main point of my post was not the Romans passage, but the one from Philippians. Here it is again:
Paul confirms Christ's deity at every turn. Like this passage:
That passage refers to this passage:
The only "name" that is ABOVE EVERY NAME is that of GOD!
I've read tigger's post arguing that the proper translation is "thy throne is God" or "thy throne is from God" and even the trinitarians of the NLT believe this is a likely translation. But, I believe it is much easier to simply read the following verse which you omitted even though it was part of verse you read. I'll even use the KJV. (I don't think there are any false friends in this verse. I don't have a 20-volume Oxford dictionary around right now to make sure.)
Hebrews 1:9 KJV
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
So, if Jesus is the one true God. Then the one true God has a God. Does your God have a God?
At this point, one either suspends all logical reasoning to blindly hold onto trinitarian doctrine or one looks into where this was quoted from = Psalm 45.
Psalm 45:1 NLT
Beautiful words stir my heart.
I will recite a lovely poem about the king,
for my tongue is like the pen of a skillful poet.
(Sorry, there are simply to many false friends in the KJV of this verse.)
Psalm 45 is about a king. At that time the king was not Jesus. So, when the poet refers to the king, he is actually referring to him as little-g god in verses 6 and 7. Jesus refers to this as well.
John 10:34-35 KJV
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? [35] If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Hebrews 1:8-9 does not state that Jesus is the one true God. At best, it is giving Jesus the title of little-g god which was given to many humans in the Bible.
One out of three isn't that bad.
OZOS
Well-known member
Jesus said it, you moron. Are you now denying that the Father is God?
"If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father (God) also: and from henceforth ye know him (God), and have seen him (God).
Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father (God), and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father (God); and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Believest thou not that I am in the Father (God), and the Father (God) in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Believe me that I am in the Father (God), and the Father (God) in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake."
Allow me to break down my comment for you
wrong
wrong
right
One out of three isn't that bad.
Splitting hairs to stay in error ! Nothing to see here, because Jesus is God wether you accept that truth or not changes nothing.