ECT NOTABLE HERETICS THROUGHOUT CHRISTIAN HISTORY HAVE BASED HERESIES ON SOLA SCRIPTURA

Cruciform

New member
Heresiarchs and heretical movements based their doctrines on Scripture interpreted apart from Tradition and the Magisterium.

If you look at the history of the early Church, you will see that it continually struggled against heresies and those who promoted them. We also see the Church responding to those threats again and again by convening Councils [15] and turning to Rome to settle disputes in matters of doctrine and discipline. For example, Pope Clement intervened in a controversy in the Church at Corinth at the end of the 1st century and put an end to a schism there. In the 2nd century, Pope Victor threatened to excommunicate a large portion of the Church in the East because of a dispute about when Easter should be celebrated. In the earlier part of the 3rd century, Pope Callistus pronounced the condemnation of the Sabellian heresy.

In the case of these heresies and/or conflicts in discipline that would arise, the people involved would defend their erroneous beliefs by their respective interpretations of Scripture, apart from the Sacred Tradition and the teaching Magisterium of the Church. A good illustration of this point is the case of Arius, the 4th-century priest who declared that the Son of God was a creature and was not co-equal with the Father.

Arius and those who followed him quoted verses from the Bible to "prove" their claims. [16] The disputes and controversies which arose over his teachings became so great that the first Ecumenical Council was convened in Nicaea in 325 A.D. to settle them. The Council, under the authority of the Pope, declared Arius’ teachings to be heretical and made some decisive declarations about the Person of Christ, and it did so based on what Sacred Tradition had to say regarding the Scripture verses in question.

Here we see the teaching authority of the Church being used as the final say in an extremely important doctrinal matter. If there had been no teaching authority to appeal to, then Arius’ error could have overtaken the Church. As it is, a majority of the bishops at the time fell for the Arian heresy. [17] Even though Arius had based his arguments on the Bible and probably "compared Scripture with Scripture," the fact is that he arrived at an heretical conclusion. It was the teaching authority of the Church – hierarchically constituted – which stepped in and declared he was wrong.

The application is obvious. If you ask a Protestant whether or not Arius was correct in his belief that the Son was created, he will, of course, respond in the negative. Emphasize, then, that even though Arius presumably "compared Scripture with Scripture," he nonetheless arrived at an erroneous conclusion. If this were true for Arius, what guarantee does the Protestant have that it is not also true for his interpretation of a given Bible passage? The very fact that the Protestant knows Arius’ interpretations were heretical implies that an objectively true or "right" interpretation exists for the Biblical passages he used. The issue, then, becomes a question of how we can know what that true interpretation is. The only possible answer is that there must be, out of necessity, an infallible authority to tell us. That infallible authority, the Catholic Church, declared Arius heretical. Had the Catholic Church not been both infallible and authoritative in its declaration, then believers would have had no reason whatsoever to reject Arius’ teachings, and the whole of Christianity today might have been comprised of modern-day Arians.

It is evident, then, that using the Bible alone is not a guarantee of arriving at doctrinal truth. The above-described result is what happens when the erroneous doctrine of sola scriptura is used as a guiding principle, and the history of the Church and the numerous heresies it has had to address are undeniable testimony to this fact.


Read entire article here.​


QUESTION: How do your various Protestant (non-Catholic) doctrinal traditions account for this historical reality?




__________
15. Bear in mind that the decrees of an Ecumenical Council had no binding force unless they were ratified by the Pope.

16. Two favorite verses for Arians of all ages to cite in support of their beliefs are Proverbs 8:22 and John 14:28.

17. See John Henry Newman, The Arians of the Fourth Century.
 
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oatmeal

Well-known member
Heresiarchs and heretical movements based their doctrines on Scripture interpreted apart from Tradition and the Magisterium.

If you look at the history of the early Church, you will see that it continually struggled against heresies and those who promoted them. We also see the Church responding to those threats again and again by convening Councils [15] and turning to Rome to settle disputes in matters of doctrine and discipline. For example, Pope Clement intervened in a controversy in the Church at Corinth at the end of the 1st century and put an end to a schism there. In the 2nd century, Pope Victor threatened to excommunicate a large portion of the Church in the East because of a dispute about when Easter should be celebrated. In the earlier part of the 3rd century, Pope Callistus pronounced the condemnation of the Sabellian heresy.

In the case of these heresies and/or conflicts in discipline that would arise, the people involved would defend their erroneous beliefs by their respective interpretations of Scripture, apart from the Sacred Tradition and the teaching Magisterium of the Church. A good illustration of this point is the case of Arius, the 4th-century priest who declared that the Son of God was a creature and was not co-equal with the Father.

Arius and those who followed him quoted verses from the Bible to "prove" their claims. [16] The disputes and controversies which arose over his teachings became so great that the first Ecumenical Council was convened in Nicaea in 325 A.D. to settle them. The Council, under the authority of the Pope, declared Arius’ teachings to be heretical and made some decisive declarations about the Person of Christ, and it did so based on what Sacred Tradition had to say regarding the Scripture verses in question.

Here we see the teaching authority of the Church being used as the final say in an extremely important doctrinal matter. If there had been no teaching authority to appeal to, then Arius’ error could have overtaken the Church. As it is, a majority of the bishops at the time fell for the Arian heresy. [17] Even though Arius had based his arguments on the Bible and probably "compared Scripture with Scripture," the fact is that he arrived at an heretical conclusion. It was the teaching authority of the Church – hierarchically constituted – which stepped in and declared he was wrong.

The application is obvious. If you ask a Protestant whether or not Arius was correct in his belief that the Son was created, he will, of course, respond in the negative. Emphasize, then, that even though Arius presumably "compared Scripture with Scripture," he nonetheless arrived at an erroneous conclusion. If this were true for Arius, what guarantee does the Protestant have that it is not also true for his interpretation of a given Bible passage? The very fact that the Protestant knows Arius’ interpretations were heretical implies that an objectively true or "right" interpretation exists for the Biblical passages he used. The issue, then, becomes a question of how we can know what that true interpretation is. The only possible answer is that there must be, out of necessity, an infallible authority to tell us. That infallible authority, the Catholic Church, declared Arius heretical. Had the Catholic Church not been both infallible and authoritative in its declaration, then believers would have had no reason whatsoever to reject Arius’ teachings, and the whole of Christianity today might have been comprised of modern-day Arians.

It is evident, then, that using the Bible alone is not a guarantee of arriving at doctrinal truth. The above-described result is what happens when the erroneous doctrine of sola scriptura is used as a guiding principle, and the history of the Church and the numerous heresies it has had to address are undeniable testimony to this fact.


Read entire article here.​


QUESTION: How do your various Protestant (non-Catholic) doctrinal traditions account for this historical reality?




__________
15. Bear in mind that the decrees of an Ecumenical Council had no binding force unless they were ratified by the Pope.

16. Two favorite verses for Arians of all ages to cite in support of their beliefs are Proverbs 8:22 and John 14:28.

17. See John Henry Newman, The Arians of the Fourth Century.

Why would anyone seeking scriptural wisdom and instruction care at all about tradition and the magicstreum?

Anyone with a lick of sense would seek scripture to obtain answers from scripture!!!!!!

For examples:

if I wanted to know:

1. where did the heavens and the earth come from? answer is Genesis 1:1, God created the heaven and the earth

2. Why did Jesus Christ come? John 10:10 b that we might have live and have it more abundantly

3. What is the greatest commandment?

4. Why does bad things happen to people? John 10:10 a because there is a thief who does bad things to people.

So, there is no need for tradition nor a magicstratum.
 

Cruciform

New member
Why would anyone seeking scriptural wisdom and instruction care at all about tradition and the magicstreum?
For the very reason that the OP itself illuminates. Read the OP again, carefully and thoroughly, and you'll have your answer.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
Christianity is an inherently historical faith, a fact which cannot be denied or ignored without greatly distorting one's concept of "Christianity" itself.

Wrong. Christianity is faith in the living God and in Christ's sacrifice to redeem us from our sins to everlasting life with God. Christianity is not about history, it is about living out our faith today.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
For the very reason that the OP itself illuminates. Read the OP again, carefully and thoroughly, and you'll have your answer.

Well, since I have the answers to my questions without your tradition and without your magicserum, I will stick with scripture alone for my answers, for that is where the answers are found
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Heresiarchs and heretical movements based their doctrines on Scripture interpreted apart from Tradition and the Magisterium.


I can't think of any bigger heretical movement of the last 1,900 years than the one that claims salvation is through Mary

“God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is his will, that we obtain everything through Mary.”
- (Pius IX: Encycl., Ubi primum, February 2, 1849.) — [p. 12, number 12]

Oh wait......that heretical movement was part of the Magisterium, and has nothing to do with Sola Scriptura.​
 

False Prophet

New member
Having established their own righteousness, they did not submit to the righteousness that comes from God. While they 1) Do this! 2) Do this! 3) Do this! 4) Do this! They don't have to walk with God. Each one does what is right in his own eyes. In vain do these people worship me preaching the doctrines and traditions of men. They can beat around the bush like Ayn Rand, and who is John Galt? Righteousness is keeping the commandments of God. The natural mind does not submit itself to the law of God, nor can it do so.

15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If you love the world, the love of the Father is not in you. 16 These are the ways of the world: wanting to please our sinful selves, wanting the sinful things we see, and being too proud of what we have. None of these come from the Father, but all of them come from the world. 17 The world and everything that people want in it are passing away, but the person who does what God wants lives forever. 1 john 2
You want to walk, talk, and act like the world; bless God and curse your neighbor, then you are an adultress in God's eyes.
6 And the tongue is like a fire. It is a whole world of evil among the parts of our bodies. The tongue spreads its evil through the whole body. The tongue is set on fire by hell, and it starts a fire that influences all of life. 7 People can tame every kind of wild animal, bird, reptile, and fish, and they have tamed them, 8 but no one can tame the tongue. It is wild and evil and full of deadly poison. 9 We use our tongues to praise our Lord and Father, but then we curse people, whom God made like himself. 10 Praises and curses come from the same mouth! My brothers and sisters, this should not happen. james 3

This wisdom does not come down from above, but is earthly, sensual, and demonic. What does James 4:4 say? Adultresses! That is why Babylon is a dwelling place of demons, because the stain glass windows didn't keep them out!
 

Cruciform

New member
Well, let's see...

Christianity is faith in the living God and in Christ's sacrifice to redeem us from our sins to everlasting life with God.
...all of which have taken place in history, that is, are historical events. Thus, you make my point.

Christianity is not about history, it is about living out our faith today.
It isn't ONLY about history but, according to the New Testament itself, the Christian faith is established in---and depends upon---the saving acts of God among men in history. For example, see Lk. 1:1-5; 2:1-5; 1 Cor. 15:12-19. Christianity is a historical faith.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

Cruciform

New member
Well, since I have the answers to my questions...
Of course, whether or not your "answers" (interpretive opinions) are in fact true is quite another issue entirely.

...without your tradition...
Yes, but not without the tradition of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect. You've simply replaced Catholic Tradition with a sectarian non-Catholic tradition. Either way, you're following someone's tradition. It's simply inescapable.

...I will stick with scripture alone...
But, of course. you don't. Rather, you follow "Scripture" as interpreted by your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect. See just above.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

Cruciform

New member
I can't think of any bigger heretical movement of the last 1,900 years than the one that claims salvation is through Mary.
Oh, sure you can! How about the heretical movement in which multiplied tens-of-thousands of competing and contradictory, non-apostolic, unauthorized, recently-invented, man-made sects separated from Christ's one historic Church on the basis of nothing more than their wholly subjective and entirely non-authoritative personal interpretive opinions, virtually none of which agreed with the beliefs and teachings of Jesus Christ, the apostles, the early Christian Church, or Christ's one historic Church right down to our own day? Yeah, I'll go with that one.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

Cruciform

New member
No, honestly, I can't.
I gave you a far better candidate in Post #12 above.

What could be more heretical than claiming salvation is through Mary?
Please explain---in your own words---exactly in what specific sense the Catholic Church teaches that "salvation comes through Mary." Do you even know? :think:


(Wait for it...)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Please explain---in your own words---exactly in what specific sense the Catholic Church teaches that "salvation comes through Mary." Do you even know? :think:

Something along the lines of how Mary is the mother of God, somehow salvation is through her because she is some sort of co-redeemer, and co-mediator because she somehow helps people with their salvation.

No matter how you want to paint it, it's a heresy, that IMO, is the biggest in the history of the church.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Of course, whether or not your "answers" (interpretive opinions) are in fact true is quite another issue entirely.


Yes, but not without the tradition of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect. You've simply replaced Catholic Tradition with a sectarian non-Catholic tradition. Either way, you're following someone's tradition. It's simply inescapable.


But, of course. you don't. Rather, you follow "Scripture" as interpreted by your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect. See just above.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Your theology is pathetic!

You evidently have a different answer than God's answers.

God created the heaven and the earth! Genesis 1:1

Jesus did come that we might have life and have it more abundantly! John 10:10

Bad things happen because we have an adversary, John 10:10, I Peter 5:8

Evidently, your religion is not interested in God's answers.

Evidently, you are not interested in God's answers.

When you decide you want God, not religion, scripture will be your one and only source for answers from God.
 

6days

New member
It is evident, then, that using the Bible alone is not a guarantee of arriving at doctrinal truth.
What a goofy conclusion.
Shall we examine the history of groups who determined "truth" with scripture PLUS? Shall we look at the groups who have chosen to add teachings to scripture and ended on the broad path?
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
Well, let's see...


...all of which have taken place in history, that is, are historical events. Thus, you make my point.


It isn't ONLY about history but, according to the New Testament itself, the Christian faith is established in---and depends upon---the saving acts of God among men in history. For example, see Lk. 1:1-5; 2:1-5; 1 Cor. 15:12-19. Christianity is a historical faith.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

I see what you did there! You attempted to yet again take faith away from God and focus it on history again. Specifically, the history of your chosen sect of Christianity. Faith in history is faith grossly misplaced.
 

Cruciform

New member
Something along the lines of how Mary is the mother of God, somehow salvation is through her because she is some sort of co-redeemer, and co-mediator because she somehow helps people with their salvation.
So, then, you actually have no idea whatsoever. That's what I thought. So much for your anti-Catholic complaint. :yawn:
 
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