Our Moral God

Clete

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Thanks, perhaps I overreacted in advance.

I've heard this argument before and do not find it compelling.

Paul was not itemizing who was a gentile and who was a Jew.

No, Luke was associating (and traveling with) the twelve et al during the events recorded in Acts 1-15. I don't see any other reason that he would have such an extensive knowledge of all the details in that part of Acts. I doubt that it would have all been gained from second hand accounts.

https://theologyonline.com/threads/luke-started-accompanying-paul-beginning-in-acts-16.52524/

Yes, after he began traveling with Paul instead of the twelve et al.

Except, of course, his detailed and extensive writings about that time and those events. Luke had very detailed knowledge of the Jewish people and their ways. From that, it seems more likely that he was a Jew than a gentile.

Not necessarily.

Personally, I find the idea that only 2 of 66 books of the Bible were written by a gentile to be dubious. Especially with Paul's mention of the Jews receiving the oracles of God.

I also am not going to dogmatically claim that I know that Luke was not a gentile. But I believe that he was a Jew.
The church I grew up in must have taught that he was a gentile because I literally don't remember having ever thought he was anything other than a gentile. There is, however, sufficient doubt about it that I won't be mindlessly speaking of him as a gentile any longer as I did in that previous post.
 

inthebeginning

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The text defeats your argument by your own, quite correct, standard of translation being not woodenly "word for word" but by means of context. It is the ideas being expressed that should be converted into the other language not necessarily the dictionary definitions of particular words.

The context of the passage itself make it clear that the English term "word" does NOT convey the meaning of "logos".

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

The "light" in verse 4 is not physical light as in "Let there be light" in Genesis 1. It is the light of understanding! This would have been COMPLETELY intuitive to anyone reading this passage in the very Hellenistic world of the first century Romans Empire - including Israel and whole surrounding region.

As for notion that the gospels and other writings of the New Testament were not originally written in Greek, the fact is that there’s no historical, textual, or linguistic evidence to support that claim.

Yes, the apostles were Jewish and yes, they spoke Aramaic (and likely Hebrew in formal or religious settings). That much is obvious. But Koine Greek was the common language of the Roman Empire. It was the language of commerce, education, and cross-cultural communication. If someone wanted to write something that would be read beyond the narrow confines of Judea, then Greek was the only language that would make sense to choose. And that’s precisely what we see.

Peter’s letters, for instance, are addressed to believers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. All of which were thoroughly Hellenized regions. John’s Revelation is addressed to seven churches in Asia Minor, likewise Greek-speaking. These men ministered for decades in Greek-speaking areas. It should not be surprising if they became fluent in the Greek language or that they employed scribes (which was common practice) to assist in composition. The style of Greek varies across New Testament books, which is exactly what we would expect from different authors, writing at different times, with different levels of education and perhaps different scribes.

What we don’t see, not even once, is an ancient manuscript of a New Testament book written in Hebrew or Aramaic. All of our oldest and best manuscripts are Greek. Every early church father who quoted the New Testament quoted it in Greek. And none of them ever said the originals were in Hebrew or Aramaic. If such documents ever existed, they vanished without a trace, left no influence on the textual tradition, left no evidence even in the Greek manuscripts that we have that they are translations from any other language, and were never mentioned by anyone in the early church. That’s not just unlikely; it’s completely implausible if not outright impossible.

Let’s not forget either that Luke, who wrote more of the New Testament than anyone, was a Greek-speaking Gentile. Paul was a Roman citizen and a highly educated Jew from the Greek city of Tarsus. Most of the epistles were written to Greek-speaking churches across the Roman Empire. This idea that the New Testament was primarily written in Hebrew or Aramaic is not only unsupported, it flies in the face of everything we actually know about the first-century world.

The Greek New Testament is not a translation of a Hebrew or Aramaic original. It is the original. If we’re going to take the text seriously, we need to stop trying to retrofit it to suit modern theories and just deal honestly with what the evidence shows.



P.S. Be sure to use the quote feature whenever you're responding to a post. It makes it MUCH more likely that your post will be seen by the person you're responding to.
You better travel to Philippines. People over there speak English besides Tagalog. Listen how they speak English, with such strong accent. On the other hand their speaking in Tagalog is fluent and very well pronounced.

Same as well, even if the apostles being Jews learned some Greek words and phrases, their accent and writing are not expected to be the one observed in their letters. Jesus spoke in Aramaic and Jews and foreign people living in Judah had no problem listening to him, because such was the language of the land.

The letters written by the apostles to followers in other lands were directed first to Jews, then the letters should have been written in Aramaic. The misunderstanding is the common belief that because followers were exiled to Babylon, then automatically those have to be converted pagans speaking Greek.

If we were to justify the belief of the Greek New Testament as the original because no one has found it in Hebrew or Aramaic, then we can say that the Old Testament writings in Masoretic Hebrew are the originals because no one has found the Torah written in the Kingdom of Israel years.

Think about it.
 

JudgeRightly

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The church I grew up in must have taught that he was a gentile because I literally don't remember having ever thought he was anything other than a gentile. There is, however, sufficient doubt about it that I won't be mindlessly speaking of him as a gentile any longer as I did in that previous post.

Makes more sense for him to have written Hebrews if he was a Jew.
 
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