Religious Liberty is for Muslims, too.

[Lexington'96]

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/muslims-christians-religious-liberty/

Peter Beinart has a piece in The Atlantic in which he discusses growing anti-Muslim hostility among conservative Christians. He singles out conservative Christians (Catholic and Protestant) who don’t want to extend religious liberty protections that they enjoy to Muslims. Beinart says this is preventing conservative Christians from joining with natural allies in Muslim communities. Beinart:...

I think this is a very risky path for Christians in the United States. They may not like the fact that there are Muslims in America, but that doesn’t change the fact that there are Muslims in America, and they have a right to a place of worship. As Russell Moore has stated clearly, a government powerful enough to deny a Muslim congregation the right to build a mosque is a government powerful enough to deny the same to Christians. When you defend the right to religious liberty for Muslims, you are defending the same for Christians. I would even say it’s to the strategic advantage of Christians to have Muslims in their corner, precisely because the liberal establishment doesn’t like going up against minorities of which they approve.

Seems to me that non-Muslims on both the secular left and the religious right need to understand that Muslims in America are a test case for both sides. If the left is eager to protect the rights of Muslims to live as Muslims outside of the mosque, then it needs to come to terms with the fact that this means Christians are covered by the same principles. And if the right is eager to protect its own freedom of religion, it had better not let daylight get between itself and Muslims on this issue. You don’t have to agree with Muslim theology to believe that in America, they have a right to be wrong.

If the government can take away the First Amendment for Muslims don't think they won't do the same for Christians.

 

[Nick M]

If the government can take away the First Amendment for Muslims don't think they won't do the same for Christians.

Islam is incompatible with the Bill of Rights and 1st amendment. Of course the left does not want Christians and Bibles in America. That is old news.

 

[Lexington'96]

Islam is incompatible with the Bill of Rights and 1st amendment. Of course the left does not want Christians and Bibles in America. That is old news.

Some day SCOTUS might rule that to be the case with Christianity. We don't live in a Christian country anymore. Our rights are under threat almost exclusively by secularists.

 

[Nick M]

Some day SCOTUS might rule that to be the case with Christianity. We don't live in a Christian country anymore. Our rights are under threat almost exclusively by secularists.

They already have. Are you not paying attention to what the left, which includes Democrats and establishment anti-Trump Re-publicans have been doing the last 20 years? And the days of the court having the last word are over. It's impeachment time.

But back to the point of the thread, islam is incompatible with the USA and the 1st amendment.

 

[Lexington'96]

They already have. Are you not paying attention to what the left, which includes Democrats and establishment anti-Trump Re-publicans have been doing the last 20 years? And the days of the court having the last word are over. It's impeachment time.

The days of the court having the last word are over? Did something happen recently that I'm not aware of?

But back to the point of the thread, islam is incompatible with the USA and the 1st amendment.

The First Amendment applies to every religion. If it can be ignored for Muslims it will be ignored for Christians. We look like hypocrites if we fight for our freedom while opposing the freedom of others.

 

[Nick M]

The days of the court having the last word are over? Did something happen recently that I'm not aware of?

Yes. That is not how the government is too function. Impeach the judges that break the law. Like John Roberts.

The First Amendment applies to every religion.

Right, which is why islam cannot be a part of this country. Islam is mandatory. Like I said in the UAL thread where Kmoney said awful planning....yes, Americans have terrible analytical skils.

 

[Lexington'96]

Yes. That is not how the government is too function. Impeach the judges that break the law. Like John Roberts.

That is how the government is supposed to function. But that is no longer the case and Trump isn't changing anything.

Right, which is why islam cannot be a part of this country. Islam is mandatory. Like I said in the UAL thread where Kmoney said awful planning....yes, Americans have terrible analytical skils.

Islam is not mandatory in the United States. Muslims are 1% of the population and have very little political power here. Radical social liberalism is a greater threat.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/muslims-christians-religious-liberty/



If the government can take away the First Amendment for Muslims don't think they won't do the same for Christians.

Let's see what the men who wrote our country's great founding documents had to say about it:

Were the Founding Fathers "Tolerant" of Islam? [Part I]

The Founders would not have favored integrating Islam into our schools, government, and other civil institutions. Far from it. In his discussion of freedom of religion in his monumental Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, Father of American Jurisprudence Joseph Story clarified the meaning of the First Amendment with regard to the priority of Christianity:

t is impossible for those, who believe in the truth of Christianity, as a divine revelation, to doubt, that it is the especial duty of government to foster, and encourage it among all the citizens and subjects….
Indeed, in a republic, there would seem to be a peculiar propriety in viewing the Christian religion, as the great basis, on which it must rest for its support and permanence, if it be, what it has ever been deemed by its truest friends to be, the religion of liberty.
Probably at the time of the adoption of the constitution, and of the amendment to it, now under consideration, the general, if not the universal, sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state, so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience, and the freedom of religious worship. An attempt to level all religions, and to make it a matter of state policy to hold all in utter indifference, would have created universal disapprobation, if not universal indignation (1833, 44.723-726.3.3.1865-1868, emp. added).
Indeed, the First Amendment was never intended to “level all religions” (and Islam can hardly be stylized “the religion of liberty”). Story further explained that
the real object of the [First] amendment was not to countenance, much less to advance Mahometanism, or Judaism, or infidelity by prostrating Christianity; but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects and to prevent any national ecclesiastical establishment which should give to a hierarchy the exclusive patronage of the national government(1833, 3:728, emp. added).

http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=7&article=4622

 

[Lexington'96]

Let's see what the men who wrote our country's great founding documents had to say about it:

Were the Founding Fathers "Tolerant" of Islam? [Part I]

The Founders would not have favored integrating Islam into our schools, government, and other civil institutions. Far from it. In his discussion of freedom of religion in his monumental Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, Father of American Jurisprudence Joseph Story clarified the meaning of the First Amendment with regard to the priority of Christianity:

t is impossible for those, who believe in the truth of Christianity, as a divine revelation, to doubt, that it is the especial duty of government to foster, and encourage it among all the citizens and subjects….
Indeed, in a republic, there would seem to be a peculiar propriety in viewing the Christian religion, as the great basis, on which it must rest for its support and permanence, if it be, what it has ever been deemed by its truest friends to be, the religion of liberty.
Probably at the time of the adoption of the constitution, and of the amendment to it, now under consideration, the general, if not the universal, sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state, so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience, and the freedom of religious worship. An attempt to level all religions, and to make it a matter of state policy to hold all in utter indifference, would have created universal disapprobation, if not universal indignation (1833, 44.723-726.3.3.1865-1868, emp. added).
Indeed, the First Amendment was never intended to “level all religions” (and Islam can hardly be stylized “the religion of liberty”). Story further explained that
the real object of the [First] amendment was not to countenance, much less to advance Mahometanism, or Judaism, or infidelity by prostrating Christianity; but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects and to prevent any national ecclesiastical establishment which should give to a hierarchy the exclusive patronage of the national government(1833, 3:728, emp. added).

http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=7&article=4622

That's the opinion of one person.

 

[The Horn]

Until the rise of Hitler, the Jews had lived in Germany for centuries , had assimilated and made great contributions to that country in every field . There was antisemitism ,yes, but nothing remotely close to the holocaust created by Hitler and the Nazis .
We are currently witnessing something disturbingly similar in America with Muslims .

 

[ok doser]

Until the rise of Hitler, the Jews had lived in Germany for centuries , had assimilated and made great contributions to that country in every field . There was antisemitism ,yes, but nothing remotely close to the holocaust created by Hitler and the Nazis .

actually, lots of things very close to the holocaust:

Jewish settlers founded the Ashkenazi Jewish community in the Early (5th to 10th centuries CE) and High Middle Ages (circa 1000–1299 CE). The community survived under Charlemagne, but suffered during the Crusades. Accusations of well poisoning during the Black Death (1346–53) led to mass slaughter of German Jews,[2] and they fled in large numbers to Poland. The Jewish communities of the cities of Mainz, Speyer, and Worms became the center of Jewish life during Medieval times. "This was a golden age as area bishops protected the Jews resulting in increased trade and prosperity."[3] The First Crusade began an era of persecution of Jews in Germany.[4] Entire communities, like those of Trier, Worms, Mainz, and Cologne, were murdered. The war upon the Hussite heretics became the signal for renewed persecution of Jews. The end of the 15th century was a period of religious hatred that ascribed to Jews all possible evils. The atrocities during the Khmelnytsky Uprising committed by Khmelnytskyi's Cossacks (1648, in the Ukrainian part of southeastern Poland) drove the Polish Jews back into western Germany. With Napoleon's fall in 1815, growing nationalism resulted in increasing repression. From August to October 1819, pogroms that came to be known as the Hep-Hep riots took place throughout Germany. During this time, many German states stripped Jews of their civil rights. As a result, many German Jews began to emigrate.

 

[chair]

The First Amendment applies to every religion. If it can be ignored for Muslims it will be ignored for Christians. We look like hypocrites if we fight for our freedom while opposing the freedom of others.

I agree.100%.

Though it may sound odd to some, it would be worthwhile to take a look at Israel, which has far more difficult problems with Islamic fanaticism, both internal and external, than the US has, yet manages to maintain equal rights for its Muslim citizens- the vast majority of which are good citizens.

 

[The Horn]

OK Doser, I know about these anti-semitic atrocities in Germany in the past. But by the 19th century and the early 20th, German Jews were pretty much accepted and fully assimilated .

 

[ok doser]

With Napoleon's fall in 1815, growing nationalism resulted in increasing repression. From August to October 1819, pogroms that came to be known as the Hep-Hep riots took place throughout Germany. During this time, many German states stripped Jews of their civil rights. As a result, many German Jews began to emigrate.

1815 is the early nineteenth century


German jewry was never "pretty much accepted and fully assimilated"

 

[Angel4Truth]

Those who adhere to islam, dont believe in religious liberty. Or womens liberty, or any liberty, its allah or die.

 

[rocketman]

Those who adhere to islam, dont believe in religious liberty. Or womens liberty, or any liberty, its allah or die.

Pretty much sums it up...

 

[Nick M]

And Muslims are not at liberty to leave. A death sentence follows.

 

[Truster]

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/muslims-christians-religious-liberty/



If the government can take away the First Amendment for Muslims don't think they won't do the same for Christians.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the First Amendment set in place to allow the worship of the One True Elohim? Did the authors have the false worship of false elohims in mind.

 

[Jonahdog]

Islam is incompatible with the Bill of Rights and 1st amendment. Of course the left does not want Christians and Bibles in America. That is old news.

Ah, from Nicky M, the religion/history/law/politics scholar.

 

[Nick M]

Ah, from Nicky M, the religion/history/law/politics scholar.

This is not an argument. You swamp rat.