ECT ST. AUGUSTINE ON THE TRUE CHURCH FOUNDED BY CHRIST

[Eagles Wings]

Regarding the OP:

My Hope Is Built On Nothing Less

https://www.hymnal.net/en/hymn/h/298


1
My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus Christ, my righteousness;
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly lean on Jesus’ name.
On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
All other ground is sinking sand,
All other ground is sinking sand.

2
When darkness veils His lovely face,
I rest on His unchanging grace;
In every high and stormy gale,
My anchor holds within the veil.

3
His oath, His covenant, His blood,
Support me in the whelming flood;
When all around my soul gives way,
He then is all my hope and stay.

4
When He shall come with trumpet sound,
Oh, may I then in Him be found;
In Him, my righteousness, alone,
Faultless to stand before the throne.

 

[patrick jane]

Now post your proof for this mere unsubstantiated assertion.

Do they not have a separate catholic Bible ?

 

[Sonnet]

What is it, exactly, that you're looking for?

Well lets look at some of the scriptures you cited.

Mat 5:14
You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden.

A non-Catholic true believe isn't 'hidden' nor the true church he is part of.

Matt. 12:25; Mark 3:25; Luke 11:17 - Jesus says a kingdom divided against itself is laid waste and will not stand. This describes Protestantism and the many thousands of denominations that continue to multiply each year.

You can't just single out non-Catholic church as if this proves your argument. he division includes all with differing theologies. Circular argument.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus says, "I will build my 'Church' (not churches)." There is only one Church built upon one Rock with one teaching authority, not many different denominations, built upon various pastoral opinions and suggestions.

True believers are one church.

Matt. 16:19; 18:18 - Jesus gave the apostles binding and loosing authority. But this authority requires a visible Church because "binding and loosing" are visible acts. The Church cannot be invisible, or it cannot bind and loose.

How is any Christian invisible?




Need we go on?

 

[Sonnet]

What is it, exactly, that you're looking for?

John 10:16 - Jesus says there must only be one flock and one shepherd. This cannot mean many denominations and many pastors, all teaching different doctrines. Those outside the fold must be brought into the Church.

Anyone genuinely listening to the shepherd's voice is considered part of the flock. Since you accept non-Catholics to be genuine Christians then your argument about doctrinal differences cannot be significant.

 

[Sonnet]

What is it, exactly, that you're looking for?

John 17:11,21,23 - Jesus prays that His followers may be perfectly one as He is one with the Father. Jesus' oneness with the Father is perfect. It can never be less. Thus, the oneness Jesus prays for cannot mean the varied divisions of Christianity that have resulted since the Protestant reformation. There is perfect oneness only in the Catholic Church.

Perfect oneness in the RCC? Come on - the history of the RCC is as chequered as any other.

 

[Crucible]

Sure I do. Augustine subsequently renounced and abandoned his early speculations about predestinationism, promoting instead his more mature doctrinal views, endorsed to this day by the Catholic Church. Try again?

You've never read 'City of God', that much is perfectly clear. He always taught the immutability of God, which is paramount to predestinarian belief. He always believed in fate, and an absolution of sovereignty in God's will.
The RCC cherry picks off of every single theologian saint, and it's no different with Augustine.

 

[Crucible]

Since the Bible affirms that Christ died for all men and no scriptures exist that explicitly support limited atonement then we can dispense with Calvinism right from the off.

Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.


Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

~Limited Atonement~

Your eyes simply read whatever is convenient to you. The entire Bible is laced with Limited Atonement. The whole of TULIP, actually.

 

[Cruciform]

Since you accept there are true believers outside Catholicism then how can it be said that Catholicism is necessary?

Just because someone might be able to be saved without being a formal member of Christ's Church certainly does not mean that one should not be a member of Christ's Church. The fact is that the fullness of the Christian faith resides in Christ's one historic Catholic Church and, simply because five centuries ago some men decided to abandon Christ's one Church in favor of their own fabricated ideas and sects, it in no way changes the fact that Jesus founded his one historic Church with the intention that all men belong to it and contribute to it with their particular abilities and gifts.

We are called to join with Christ's Church, not with the invented sects of mere men. To be joined to Christ's one Church is to be joined to Jesus Christ himself (Lk. 10:16). Only ONE Church is actually "the pillar and foundation of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15), and it isn't any one of the myriad man-made sects of Protestantism. To follow Christ (the Head) is to follow his Church (the Body). One cannot claim one without embracing the other.

 

[Cruciform]

You've never read 'City of God', that much is perfectly clear. He always taught the immutability of God, which is paramount to predestinarian belief. He always believed in fate, and an absolution of sovereignty in God's will.The RCC cherry picks off of every single theologian saint, and it's no different with Augustine.

Again, the entirely non-authoritative opinions that you have derived from your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect are noted. :yawn:

 

[Cruciform]

Do they not have a separate Catholic Bible ?

How could they, since the Catholic Church existed for a millennium-and-a-half before the fabrication of Protestantism? Rather, you have a separate Protestant Bible, one from which seven books were removed from the Old Testament by Protestant leaders during the 16th-century Protestant Rebellion.

 

[Crucible]

Again, the entirely non-authoritative opinions that you have derived from your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect are noted. :yawn:

Cool story

Funny how this 'authority' went from killing anyone who wasn't Catholic to damn near saying atheists can be saved

The last time I checked, God isn't so incredibly inconsistent and subject to relative morality.

 

[Sonnet]

Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.


Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Wherefore did you post these?

~Limited Atonement~

Your eyes simply read whatever is convenient to you. The entire Bible is laced with Limited Atonement. The whole of TULIP, actually.

That you cited none would appear to prove my point.

 

[Crucible]

That you cited none would appear to prove my point.

I just did, but don't let reality get in the way of your delusions

 

[Sonnet]

Just because someone might be able to be saved without being a formal member of Christ's Church certainly does not mean that one should not be a member of Christ's Church. The fact is that the fullness of the Christian faith resides in Christ's one historic Catholic Church and, simply because five centuries ago some men decided to abandon Christ's one Church in favor of their own fabricated ideas and sects, it in no way changes the fact that Jesus founded his one historic Church with the intention that all men belong to it and contribute to it with their particular abilities and gifts.

We are called to join with Christ's Church, not with the invented sects of mere men. To be joined to Christ's one Church is to be joined to Jesus Christ himself (Lk. 10:16). Only ONE Church is actually "the pillar and foundation of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15), and it isn't any one of the myriad man-made sects of Protestantism. To follow Christ (the Head) is to follow his Church (the Body). One cannot claim one without embracing the other.

“Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

Jesus here pronounces regarding the 72 that He sent out; so what of it?

if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

The church in Ephesus is acknowledged as part of God's household. Again what is your point?

Since you acknowledge genuine non-Catholic Christians then any doctrinal differences cannot be an issue.

Just because someone might be able to be saved without being a formal member of Christ's Church certainly does not mean that one should not be a member of Christ's Church. The fact is that the fullness of the Christian faith resides in Christ's one historic Catholic Church

Since they are saved then what could possibly be lacking? Please be specific.

 

[Sonnet]

I just did, but don't let reality get in the way of your delusions

Nothing explicit in those scriptures about Christ not dying for all men. You're proving my point.

 

[Crucible]

Nothing explicit in those scriptures about Christ not dying for all men. You're proving my point.

..Besides the fact that it tells you slam right to your face, I suppose not lain:

 

[Sonnet]

..Besides the fact that it tells you slam right to your face, I suppose not lain:

No mention of limited atonement; as I said you have ZERO scriptures that teach it but a whole bunch that teach He died for all.

 

[Crucible]

No mention of limited atonement; as I said you have ZERO scriptures that teach it but a whole bunch that teach He died for all.

The scriptures do not 'teach' that He died 'for all'. Those scriptures are statements issued to all who will hear and believe, who are the predestined elect.

I love how you all would rather resemble having zero reading intuition than to just admit that you don't have, at least yet, a competent rebuttal. You all just deny and repeat your errors, and it's stupid.

 

[Sonnet]

The scriptures do not 'teach' that He died 'for all'. Those scriptures are statements issued to all who will hear and believe, who are the predestined elect.

I love how you all would rather resemble having zero reading intuition than to just admit that you don't have, at least yet, a competent rebuttal. You all just deny and repeat your errors, and it's stupid.

And everyone notes that you failed to provide but one scripture that actually explicitly substantiates that which you imagine to be the case.

Here's some that teach Christ died for all:

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 3:14-16
"Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.” For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Timothy 2:3-6
This is good, and pleases God our Saviour, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honour because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.


Now why would you make claims that you can't substantiate with scripture Crucible?
So your EXPLICIT scriptures are where ?

 

[Eagles Wings]

Regarding the OP:

Christ Is Made The Sure Foundation

https://www.hymnal.net/en/hymn/h/836/j=h


1
Christ is made the sure foundation,
Christ the head and cornerstone,
Chosen of the Lord and precious,
Binding all the Church in one;
Holy Zion’s help forever,
And her confidence alone.

2
Founded on the Lord victorious,
Christ the everlasting Rock,
Stands the Church in heav’nly places,
Dreading not the storm or shock;
Built with life divine she ever
Stands against attack and mock.

3
Though the gates of hades frustrate,
Yet the Church still stands for God,
Overcoming evil spirits
By her Lord’s victorious blood;
And at Christ’s return in triumph
All her foes will then be trod.