ECT The AMAZING opinion of Oatmeal

[Lazy afternoon]

Acts 20:28b






Acts 20:28b
Be shepherds of the Church of God, which he bought with his own blood. (NIV)


1. There are some Greek manuscripts that read “the church of the Lord” instead of “the church of God.” Many Trinitarian scholars believe that “Lord” is the original reading, because there is no mention anywhere in the Bible of God having blood. If the Greek manuscripts that read “Lord” are the original ones, then the “problem” is solved. However, it is the belief of the authors that good textual research shows that “the church of God” is the correct reading.

2. Both the American Bible Society and the Institute For New Testament Research in Germany (which produces the Nestle-Aland Greek text) agree that the manuscript evidence supports the reading tou haimatios tou idiou, literally, the blood of His own (Son), and not idiou haimatios, “his own blood.” God paid for our salvation with the blood of His own Son, Jesus Christ.

3. The text note at the bottom of the very Trinitarian NIV Study Bible gets the meaning of the verse correct: “his own blood. Lit. ‘the blood of his own one,’ a term of endearment (such as ‘his own dear one’) referring to His own Son.”

Norton, pp. 184,199-203

Ehrman, pp. 87 and 88

Racovian Catechism, pp. 83 and 84

Wilson, p. 429

Back to the list of “Verses Used to Support the Doctrine of the Trinity”

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses/acts-20-28b

 

[oatmeal]

Acts 20:28 "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Wow that says God purchased the church with His own blood. Must mean Christ is God, yes?

Not at all, read the post by LA following yours.

Somebody did their homework, but as usual the trins do not. They accept whatever someone claims is support for a trinity hook, line and sinker.

 

[Anto9us]

Heb 2:5

For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.


Heb 2:6

But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?


Heb 2:7

Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:


Heb 2:8

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under

him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.


Heb 2:9

But




we see Jesus,



who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste

death for every man.


Heb 2:10

For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their

salvation perfect through sufferings.


Heb 2:11

For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause



he is not ashamed to call them brethren,




Heb 2:12

Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.



Heb 2:13

And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.


Heb 2:14

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,





he also himself likewise took part of the same;



that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;


Heb 2:15

And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.



Heb 2:16

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but




he took on him the seed of Abraham.




Heb 2:17


Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be



made like unto his brethren,



that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

 

[oatmeal]

Heb 2:5

For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.


Heb 2:6

But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?


Heb 2:7

Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:


Heb 2:8

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under

him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.


Heb 2:9

But




we see Jesus,



who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste

death for every man.


Heb 2:10

For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their

salvation perfect through sufferings.


Heb 2:11

For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause



he is not ashamed to call them brethren,




Heb 2:12

Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.



Heb 2:13

And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.


Heb 2:14

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,





he also himself likewise took part of the same;



that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;


Heb 2:15

And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.



Heb 2:16

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but




he took on him the seed of Abraham.




Heb 2:17


Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be



made like unto his brethren,



that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Those are wonderful verses that show that Jesus Christ is subordinate and inferior to the Father and derived from the Father.

Everything that Jesus Christ has or will have, as the son of God, was given to him by God

How clear it is that Jesus Christ is the son of God!

How clear and thrilling to see scripture speak for itself with such clarity and depth and consistency!

 

[Anto9us]

We SEE JESUS.

We - the trins - the orthodox - even if we be divided on some issues

WE SEE JESUS

Pre-Existent - able to say "I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning"

WE SEE JESUS

we see the Truth about Him

but the "not-godders" do not

they see a man who they say we should 'follow'

they see a "Way-Shower"


but if that is all He is


we are - of all people - "the most to be pitied"

 

[oatmeal]

We SEE JESUS.

We - the trins - the orthodox - even if we be divided on some issues

WE SEE JESUS

Pre-Existent - able to say "I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning"

WE SEE JESUS

we see the Truth about Him

but the "not-godders" do not

they see a man who they say we should 'follow'

they see a "Way-Shower"


but if that is all He is


we are - of all people - "the most to be pitied"

We see Jesus, but since no man has seen God at any time. John 1:18, I John 4:12, I Timothy 1:17 we can absolutely conclude that Jesus Christ, who has been seen, is not God.

IF the miracles, etc. that Jesus did is proof that he is "mere" as in "mere man" then how mere are those who do not do the same works as Jesus Christ? John 14:12

If all it takes is a mere man to do all that Jesus did. John 21:25, then I happily choose to be mere just like Jesus Christ.

John 14:12 I happily choose to do the same works as Jesus Christ and the greater works.

Jesus Christ said we can do it, did he tell the truth?

If those miracles are proof that he is God, then when someone like Peter or Paul or you or me do those same works as promised, John 14:12 what does that make us?

Jesus as the son of God, humbled himself to God, his Father, and lovingly obeyed, Philippians 2, the Father and God highly exalted him.

When we do those same works and greater, by humbling ourselves and lovingly obeying God, Philippians 2:12-13, John 14:12, what will be our reward? What does God promise to those who humble themselves to God?

It takes humility to do the works of Jesus Christ, to do signs, miracles and wonders, for we must realize that God's power is greater than we are, and believe it to the point that we live that way.

 

[Anto9us]

No oatmeal - yer full of it

Jesus said

"You have seen me - and yet you ask"

"show me the Father?"

I am editing my IGNORE LIST again -- since the computer glitch -- and get you NOT-GODDERS back into Limbo-Land whar ya belong

 

[CherubRam]

Acts 20:28 "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Wow that says God purchased the church with His own blood. Must mean Christ is God, yes?

Does it?

Acts 20:28. New International Version (NIV)

28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God,[a] which he bought with his own blood.


Footnotes:
a.Acts 20:28 Many manuscripts of the Lord
b.Acts 20:28 Or with the blood of his own Son.

 

[Puppet]

I can tell you the sum and substance of what Oatmeal believes and has relentlessly unindated the ECT board with.

He truly believes that Jesus Christ was a fellow just like himself, he believes that by study he can become the same as Jesus Christ.

The bible teaches otherwise, the bible teaches that we as individuals are MEMBERS of Christ's body, nobody becomes the full Christ....not in this age, in the next age we know that when He appears we shall be like Him, but He will retain His unique Sonship and Lordship.

Oatie learned this from Wierwille whose opinions he continues to promulgates on ECT a cult leader.

I thought we had the second coming on TOL

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John1:1
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and We have seen His glory, glory as the only Son from the Father, full of Grace and truth." John 1:14

Scripture is Clear Jesus is God. But the confusion does seem to come from hierarchy. Jesus clearly states:
"...The Father is greater than I." John 14:28
Clearly the Hierarchy does not diminish the diety of Jesus.
"For in Him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily." Collosians 2:9

And on a personal note, I feel the Holy Spirit's presence just as strong if my worship is Centered on the Father, or Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. There is one God. One pie.

 

[God's Truth]

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John1:1
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and We have seen His glory, glory as the only Son from the Father, full of Grace and truth." John 1:14

Scripture is Clear Jesus is God. But the confusion does seem to come from hierarchy. Jesus clearly states:
"...The Father is greater than I."

God did not pretend to come as a Man; He really came as a Man.

Clearly the Hierarchy does not diminish the diety of Jesus.
"For in Him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily." Collosians 2:9

And on a personal note, I feel the Holy Spirit's presence just as strong if my worship is Centered on the Father, or Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. There is one God. One pie.

Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

See 2 Corinthians 3:17.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

God did not pretend to come as a Man; He really came as a Man.



Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

See 2 Corinthians 3:17.

In my lowly opinion their separateness and oneness is part of the knowing in part equation, mind boggling...




iv

 

[God's Truth]

We see Jesus, but since no man has seen God at any time. John 1:18, I John 4:12, I Timothy 1:17 we can absolutely conclude that Jesus Christ, who has been seen, is not God.

God is invisible. Jesus is God made visible.

IF the miracles, etc. that Jesus did is proof that he is "mere" as in "mere man" then how mere are those who do not do the same works as Jesus Christ? John 14:12
If all it takes is a mere man to do all that Jesus did. John 21:25, then I happily choose to be mere just like Jesus Christ.

Jesus is not a mere man.

You and I are mere humans Jesus is not.

Our shed blood takes away no one's sins.

Jesus' blood takes away the sins of the world.

John 14:12 I happily choose to do the same works as Jesus Christ and the greater works.

Jesus Christ said we can do it, did he tell the truth?

Jesus said that to those who would lay the foundation. Jesus sent his Apostles, as God sent Jesus.

If those miracles are proof that he is God, then when someone like Peter or Paul or you or me do those same works as promised, John 14:12 what does that make us?

It does not make you God like Jesus.

Again, God allowed miraculous things to happen during the laying of the foundation.

You know that you are not doing those things.

Jesus as the son of God, humbled himself to God, his Father, and lovingly obeyed, Philippians 2, the Father and God highly exalted him.

When we do those same works and greater, by humbling ourselves and lovingly obeying God, Philippians 2:12-13, John 14:12, what will be our reward? What does God promise to those who humble themselves to God?

If we humble ourselves and obey Jesus we will be saved.

It takes humility to do the works of Jesus Christ, to do signs, miracles and wonders, for we must realize that God's power is greater than we are, and believe it to the point that we live that way.

Again, God testified to the message being proclaimed by the Apostles. God testified to what they said to be true. God testified to it by allowing them to do miraculous things.

We do not do those miraculous things, because the message has already been given, and the foundation has already been laid.

Hebrews 2:4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

 

[God's Truth]

In my lowly opinion their separateness and oneness is part of the knowing in part equation, mind boggling...




iv

...but they are not separate. They are the same.

The Holy Spirit living inside me, it is Jesus himself, and it is God the Father Himself.

They are the same.

John 17:26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Jesus prayed to His Father, Did His Father's will. Asked for The chalice to be removed. But did His Father's will.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus prayed to His Father, Did His Father's will. Asked for The chalice to be removed. But did His Father's will.

...because God really came as a Man.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

...because God really came as a Man.

And yet God the Father 'art in heaven' as Jesus declared.

 

[God's Truth]

And yet God the Father 'art in heaven' as Jesus declared.

Jesus is God the Father come in the flesh as a Man.

 

[God's Truth]

There are three the three are one and the same.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

There are three the three are one and the same.

Ok explain John ch14. Jesus said the Father is greater than I. Jesus said the Father is in Him and that He was going to the Father. And Jesus said He would manifest himself to us.
Obviously there are different manifestations of the one True God at the same time.