The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

Freak

New member
servantofChrist said:
With regard to those who say that the baptism of Acts 2:38; 22:16, 1 Pt. 3:21, etc., is Holy Spirit baptism... it isn't, and here's why...

...he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

...how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
 

servantofChrist

New member
Freak said:
...he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

...how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.


The Apostle Peter: "Baptism Now Saves You"

"Freak": Anyone who says "Be Baptized to be Saved," is a "Heretic"

QUESTION: WHO IS THE HERETIC: THE APOSTLE PETER OR "FREAK"??
ANOTHER QUESTION: WHICH ONE DO YOU ** BELIEVE **... THE APOSTLE PETER OR "FREAK"??
 

Freak

New member
servantofChrist said:
ANOTHER QUESTION: WHICH ONE DO YOU ** BELIEVE **... THE APOSTLE PETER OR "FREAK"??
...he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
...how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

What does this tell you?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Most of the Mid Acts believers say that submitting to the rite of water baptism was a requirement for salvation for the so-called "kingdom saints".

They use the following verse to attempt to prove their idea:

"And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned " (Mk.16:15-16;NASB).

This "salvation" spoken of here is in regard to "temporal" or "physical" salvation, and not eternal salvation.

The Jews who were baptized by John the Baptist realized the the "wrath" from which they were being saved from is in regard to the "wrath" that will happen during the "Day of the Lord":

"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?" (Mt.3:7).

This "wrath" refers to a harvest, the same harvest which will take place on the earth when the Lord Jesus returns to bring judgment on the sin cursed world, as witnessed by the words of John the Baptist just five verses later:

"Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire " (Mt.3:12).

This is in reference to the same harvest which the Apostle John saw in a vision:

"And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle...And He that sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped " (Rev.14:14,16).

John the Baptist came in the "spirit and power" of Elijah, and we can see that the coming of Elijah was in regard to "the day of the Lord":

"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse " (Mal.4:5-6).

On the same day that Peter told the children of Israel to repent and be baptized he also referred to the "day of the Lord":

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved " (Acts2:21).

Here Peter is quoting the following verse,a verse that demonstrates that the "salvation" of which he spoke was in regard to being "delivered" from the temporal judgment on the "day of the Lord":

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call " (Joel 2:31-32).

The Jews would understand the following about "the day of the Lord":

"Therefore the LORD, the God of hosts, the LORD, saith thus; Wailing shall be in all streets; and they shall say in all the highways, Alas! alas! and they shall call the husbandman to mourning, and such as are skilful of lamentation to wailing. And in all vineyards shall be wailing: for I will pass through thee, saith the LORD. Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light " (Amos 5:16-18).

So when verses speak of "salvation" in regard to water baptism the reference is to "temporal" salvation and not "eternal" salvation.

Zane C. Hodges writes that "When the Greek translation of the Old Testament is considered along with the Greek New Testament, it can safely be said that the most common meaning of the word "salvation" (soteria) in the Greek Bible is the one which refers to God's deliverance of His people from their trials and hardships...First century Christians, therefore, were every bit as likely to understand a reference to 'salvation' in this sense as they were to understand it in the sense of 'escaping from hell'. New Testament interpreters forget this fact very frequently. In place of careful consideration about the sense which the term 'salvation' has in any given context, there is a kind of interpretive "reflex action" that automatically equates the word with final salvation from hell. This uncritical treatment of many New Testament passages has led to almost boundless confusion at both the expository and doctrinal levels" (Hodges, The Gospel Under Seige, Chapter 7).

In His grace,
Jerry
 

agape

New member
The Greater Baptism

The Greater Baptism

Acts 1: 4,5:

And, being assembled together with [them], commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, [saith he], ye have heard of me.For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Jesus uses the word "but" which sets the contrast to that which was previously stated. John baptized with water, BUT ye shall be baptized with the the holy spirit.

The Apostle Peter had baptized Cornelius and his household with water after they received the gift of holy spirit. Peter had been accustomed to the Old Testament doctrine of water baptism. However he clarifies this same account (Acts 10) later in Acts 11:15:

"Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but [sets the contrast to John's baptism by water] ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost."

Water baptism was an exemplification of the greater baptism to come. With the coming of the greater (holy spirit), the lesser (water) came to an end.

Ephesians 2:8, 9:

"For by grace [God's divine favor] are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God. (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast."
 

patman

Active member
So God can forgive anything including murder, incest, rape, adultery, lying, cheating, blaspheme, etc., but he cannot forgive you for not being baptized?:jawdrop:
 

agape

New member
Water Baptism Is Not Sin

Water Baptism Is Not Sin

So God can forgive anything including murder, incest, rape, adultery, lying, cheating, blaspheme, etc., but he cannot forgive you for not being baptized?:jawdrop:

The main thing that is important to God is for all people to be baptized in the holy spirit, which means the person is saved and has eternal life.

If a person believes Romans 10:9 and is saved, but still desires to be baptized with water for whatever reason he/she may have, it is not a sin. There is no place in the Word of God that claims it is a sin. And how could it be a sin since John, the baptist, baptized with water for repentance of sins to exemply the spirit baptism that was to come through our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Love in Christ
 

Gurucam

Well-known member
Salvation is the act of truth 'setting' someone free.

Jesus brought truth.

Jesus is the gate to salvation.

Passing through this gate is actually the act of knowing truth and adapt truth as one's way of life.

One cannot simply read truth and there after know truth. To know truth one must have 'the eyes to see', 'the ears to hear' and ' the heart to understand' truth. These faculties must be actualized. When Jesus walked on earth, from among all Moses-ians only His disciples had actualized these faculties. And only they got confirmation of truth from Jesus.

Do you know what 'the eyes to see', 'the ears to hear' and 'the heart to understand' truth means?

These are intuitive faculties. These belong to our spirit body or inward man. Therefore one must be aware of one's spirit side or inward man to actualized these faculties. To be aware of one's spirt side or inward man is to be spiritually aware.

People who are not aware of their spirit side or inward man are described as unaware. They are aware of only only their physical side or natural man. They are called 'children of the flesh'.

Therefore in order to be saved, the first step is to be transformed from unawareness to spiritual awareness. That is to awaken to one's spirit side.

After this truth is borough naturally and spontaneously to a person's awareness through the intuitive faculties of his or her inward man. Then all he or she need to do is to obey truth unconditionally and this will make him or her, 'saved' 'delivered', 'a child of God' and a Christian. This is the only path.

This is the actual necessary transformation. Everything else is symbolic and mostly useless.




Passing through this gate will bring a person to salvation.
 

johnnyluke

New member
Accepting God's Word makes one a heretic? News 2 me!

Accepting God's Word makes one a heretic? News 2 me!

Through many years of Biblical debates, one sure sign that what someone believes is not in agreement with the Word of God - they call people names, like "heretics," instead of sticking with the Word of God.

Second, Jesus did indeed say that He is "the way, the truth, and the life," and that no one could come to the Father except through Him. This same Jesus, in John 8:31, said, "Joh 8:31 "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine." He also instructed His followers to "make disciples of the nations" by "baptizing them and teaching to obey everything that He has commanded" (Matthew 28:18-20). The Greek Word transliterated (not translated, for the sake of King James, who believed in sprinkling, not baptism) to baptizing (βαπτιζοντες), means to immerse in water, making fully wet. He also, in Mark's rendering of His commission to His followers, said (Mar 16:16) "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. Once again, the word transliterated "baptized" is βαπτισθεις, from βαπτίζω, which means, "I immerse."

Upon Peter's confession of Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God (Matthew 16:16), Jesus told Him that he, Peter, would be given the keys to the Kingdom. Jesus shared this key, the truth of Jesus' identity, with the Jews in Acts 2. When they recognized their sin and wanted to know what to do about it, He brought them into God's kingdom just as Jesus had instructed. Act 2:38 - Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Once again, baptized is βαπτισθητω, from βαπτίζω (I immerse).

I believe that the name, heretic, should be assigned based on the Word of God, not the opinion of man.

If we don't base what we believe and teach on the Word of God, we shouldn't be teaching at all!

- jl
 

Jefferson

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
johnnyluke:

I Cor. 1:17 says, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel"

Therefore, since baptism is not even a part of the gospel, it doesn't matter whether people who get baptized are sprinkled or immersed.
 

evangelist

New member
johnnyluke:

I Cor. 1:17 says, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel"

Therefore, since baptism is not even a part of the gospel, it doesn't matter whether people who get baptized are sprinkled or immersed.

Now ´that is the ice on the cake!
 

c.moore

New member
As i read again through some of freaks post and the answers of many others on the theology of water baptism a requirement on baptism to be saved as gave me a a clear understanding of false teaching and who are the false religions.
Mormons , Catholics, and the church of christ does have a false issue on this matter and I hope they get a wake up call by the Holy Spirit , that we are saved by faith and believing and not getting wet is a requirement and a must!
I thank theologyonline and freak and many others for their time and truth invested on this thread.
I which many Catholics would study the pages here must of all!

one love
Shalom
 

Letsargue

New member
As expected we have heretics spreading their destructive doctrines on this forum, namely O2bewise. Mr. O2bewise said the following on September 6th: "Salvation can only come by baptism".

This pawn of Satan embraces and promotes a doctrine that will lead many to eternal hell. Salvation is by faith and faith alone. Baptism is not a requirement!

One attains eternal life (salvation) thru simple belief in the person of Jesus. We see this in the words of Jesus when He said: "Everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life" (John 3:15).

Another time when addressing the people of His day, Jesus was asked: "What must we do to do the works God requires?", Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent" (John 6:28-29).

Note no mention of baptism.

Jesus made it clear O2bewise: I AM THE GATE; WHOEVER ENTERS THROUGH ME WILL BE SAVED (John 10:9).

Again no mention of baptism, apparently to o2bewise, Jesus must have misspoken here.

I would urge my fellow believers in the Lord Jesus to come against O2bewise's devilish doctrines. This man degrades our Lord when He speaks against Him by stating baptism is required to be saved. This is in direct opposition to what our Lord said. Jesus said just come unto Him and you will be saved.

Some unbelievers once asked the disciples: "What must I do to be saved?"

They replied: Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved (Acts 16:31).

Note again no mention of baptism. Just belief in the Lord Jesus.

I think for me and my household we will listen to Jesus then o2bewise and his wicked ways.



Why did you deliberately leave out Baptism where GOD said to be Baptized? - We’re “Buried with Christ in and by Baptism”, “Be Baptized every one of you”. - I mean, that’s what GOD SAID, so it must be a part of the Truth, if the Word of God is Truth. - But, maybe not to the LOST, the Lost don’t care what God said.
Peace.

Paul – 052110
 

Letsargue

New member
As i read again through some of freaks post and the answers of many others on the theology of water baptism a requirement on baptism to be saved as gave me a a clear understanding of false teaching and who are the false religions.
Mormons , Catholics, and the church of christ does have a false issue on this matter and I hope they get a wake up call by the Holy Spirit , that we are saved by faith and believing and not getting wet is a requirement and a must!
I thank theologyonline and freak and many others for their time and truth invested on this thread.
I which many Catholics would study the pages here must of all!

one love
Shalom



How do you people come up with doctrines like that? – You just make actuations after actuations, and NEVER back them up with Scriptures. - God can’t say anything more clearly than -- Acts 2:38 KJV – “Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, AND BE BAPTIZED EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ----- That goes hand in hand with Jesus’ earlier “COMMAND”!!! – Mark 16:15-16 KJV – “He said unto them, GO YE INTO ALL THE WORLD, AND PREACH THE GOSPEL TO EVERY CREATURE. 16- HE THAT BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED; but he that believeth not shall be damned”. --& -- Matthew 28:19-20 KJV – “Go ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20- Teaching them to OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU”. – “Why call ye me Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say”. – Luke 6:46 KJV –
I think Christ said more than just the simple stuff you have chosen for YOUR DOCTRINE.

The Gospel and Baptism is the same thing. The Gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. --- Baptism is the GOSPEL OBEYED. – 2 Thessalonians 1:8 KJV --- & --- 1 Peter 4:17 KJV ---- OK! - SO you don’t believe, or have faith in Christ, which is to say, you don’t have faith in what Christ said. - GOD doesn’t care, if you don’t.
Peace.

Paul – 052710
 

Letsargue

New member
So God can forgive anything including murder, incest, rape, adultery, lying, cheating, blaspheme, etc., but he cannot forgive you for not being baptized?:jawdrop:



How did you guess that, You're right!
Mark 16:16 KJV – 6- “He that – (BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED) - - (SHALL BE SAVED) -; “BUT” – “BUT”! - he that BELIEVETH NOT SHALL BE DAMNED”. ------Believeth WHAT? --- Believeth what Christ SAID. (Faith in Jesus Christ, the Word of God). - What did Christ SAY? – 6- “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned”. ---- A person has to be deliberately blind, or following the Devil, not to see that. The SAVED saw that, and now see GOD.
Peace.

Paul – 060210
 

patman

Active member
A person has to be deliberately blind, or following the Devil, not to see that. The SAVED saw that, and now see GOD.
Peace.

Paul – 060210

Huh? Your post makes no since. You seem to be saying, "someone has to believe Jesus said, 'be baptized,' to be saved." So, do you mean to say simply believe he said 'be baptized?' and you are in? See, your logic makes no since.

I think you are twisting things a bit here to get a weak point across. No offense! Just trying to get you to think about your argument a bit.

Someone named "letsargue" should at least be good at it :)
 

Letsargue

New member
Huh? Your post makes no since. You seem to be saying, "someone has to believe Jesus said, 'be baptized,' to be saved." So, do you mean to say simply believe he said 'be baptized?' and you are in? See, your logic makes no since.

I think you are twisting things a bit here to get a weak point across. No offense! Just trying to get you to think about your argument a bit.

Someone named "letsargue" should at least be good at it :)




OOOOooooppppppppssssssss!

Of course it makes no sense to anyone who has no true knowledge of the subject.
You didn’t give any Truth / Scripture to PROVE ME WRONG. - What’s the matter with all you powerless warriors? – I am the good at this. - People with no power, or weapons except for their own TONGUE has never corrected me. - Try it with the Word of God. - I gave you the Truth, and of course, you deny the Truth. - You have your own made up, or copied form of prophesy, like everybody else.

Paul – 060210
 
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