The Late Great Urantia Revelation
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The problem is that you don't post the truth. That will be pointed out for the benefit of others. You've been exposed to the truth, but you rejected it. Instead, you are a lover of lies.
Did Jesus really say "Gentile dogs"?
Did Jesus really say "Gentile dogs"?
Did Jesus really look down on non Jews as "Gentile dogs" in the same way that Jews did????
How did this story ever make it's way into the gospels?
THE SYRIAN WOMAN
156:1.1 "There lived near the home of Karuska, where the Master lodged, a Syrian woman who had heard much of Jesus as a great healer and teacher, and on this Sabbath afternoon she came over, bringing her little daughter. The child, about twelve years old, was afflicted with a grievous nervous disorder characterized by convulsions and other distressing manifestations.
156:1.2 Jesus had charged his associates to tell no one of his presence at the home of Karuska, explaining that he desired to have a rest. While they had obeyed their Master's instructions, the servant of Karuska had gone over to the house of this Syrian woman, Norana, to inform her that Jesus lodged at the home of her mistress and had urged this anxious mother to bring her afflicted daughter for healing. This mother, of course, believed that her child was possessed by a demon, an unclean spirit.
156:1.3 When Norana arrived with her daughter, the Alpheus twins explained through an interpreter that the Master was resting and could not be disturbed; whereupon Norana replied that she and the child would remain right there until the Master had finished his rest. Peter also endeavored to reason with her and to persuade her to go home. He explained that Jesus was weary with much teaching and healing, and that he had come to Phoenicia for a period of quiet and rest. But it was futile; Norana would not leave. To Peter's entreaties she replied only: “I will not depart until I have seen your Master. I know he can cast the demon out of my child, and I will not go until the healer has looked upon my daughter.”
156:1.4 Then Thomas sought to send the woman away but met only with failure. To him she said: “I have faith that your Master can cast out this demon which torments my child. I have heard of his mighty works in Galilee, and I believe in him. What has happened to you, his disciples, that you would send away those who come seeking your Master's help?” And when she had thus spoken, Thomas withdrew.
156:1.5 Then came forward Simon Zelotes to remonstrate with Norana. Said Simon: “Woman, you are a Greek -speaking gentile. It is not right that you should expect the Master to take the bread intended for the children of the favored household and cast it to the dogs.” But Norana refused to take offense at Simon's thrust. She replied only: “Yes, teacher, I understand your words. I am only a dog in the eyes of the Jews, but as concerns your Master, I am a believing dog. I am determined that he shall see my daughter, for I am persuaded that, if he shall but look upon her, he will heal her. And even you, my good man, would not dare to deprive the dogs of the privilege of obtaining the crumbs which chance to fall from the children's table.”
156:1.6 At just this time the little girl was seized with a violent convulsion before them all, and the mother cried out: “There, you can see that my child is possessed by an evil spirit. If our need does not impress you, it would appeal to your Master, who I have been told loves all men and dares even to heal the gentiles when they believe. You are not worthy to be his disciples. I will not go until my child has been cured.”
156:1.7 Jesus, who had heard all of this conversation through an open window, now came outside, much to their surprise, and said: “O woman, great is your faith, so great that I cannot withhold that which you desire; go your way in peace. Your daughter already has been made whole.” And the little girl was well from that hour. As Norana and the child took leave, Jesus entreated them to tell no one of this occurrence; and while his associates did comply with this request, the mother and the child ceased not to proclaim the fact of the little girl's healing throughout all the countryside and even in Sidon, so much so that Jesus found it advisable to change his lodgings within a few days.
156:1.8 The next day, as Jesus taught his apostles, commenting on the cure of the daughter of the Syrian woman, he said: “And so it has been all the way along; you see for yourselves how the gentiles are able to exercise saving faith in the teachings of the gospel of the kingdom of heaven. Verily, verily, I tell you that the Father's kingdom shall be taken by the gentiles if the children of Abraham are not minded to show faith enough to enter therein.” UB 1955
So Jesus himself never called anyone a Gentile dog, it was one of his apostles that used the term. The story was simply misremembered years later when it was retold.
Did Jesus really say "Gentile dogs"?
Did Jesus really look down on non Jews as "Gentile dogs" in the same way that Jews did????
How did this story ever make it's way into the gospels?
THE SYRIAN WOMAN
156:1.1 "There lived near the home of Karuska, where the Master lodged, a Syrian woman who had heard much of Jesus as a great healer and teacher, and on this Sabbath afternoon she came over, bringing her little daughter. The child, about twelve years old, was afflicted with a grievous nervous disorder characterized by convulsions and other distressing manifestations.
156:1.2 Jesus had charged his associates to tell no one of his presence at the home of Karuska, explaining that he desired to have a rest. While they had obeyed their Master's instructions, the servant of Karuska had gone over to the house of this Syrian woman, Norana, to inform her that Jesus lodged at the home of her mistress and had urged this anxious mother to bring her afflicted daughter for healing. This mother, of course, believed that her child was possessed by a demon, an unclean spirit.
156:1.3 When Norana arrived with her daughter, the Alpheus twins explained through an interpreter that the Master was resting and could not be disturbed; whereupon Norana replied that she and the child would remain right there until the Master had finished his rest. Peter also endeavored to reason with her and to persuade her to go home. He explained that Jesus was weary with much teaching and healing, and that he had come to Phoenicia for a period of quiet and rest. But it was futile; Norana would not leave. To Peter's entreaties she replied only: “I will not depart until I have seen your Master. I know he can cast the demon out of my child, and I will not go until the healer has looked upon my daughter.”
156:1.4 Then Thomas sought to send the woman away but met only with failure. To him she said: “I have faith that your Master can cast out this demon which torments my child. I have heard of his mighty works in Galilee, and I believe in him. What has happened to you, his disciples, that you would send away those who come seeking your Master's help?” And when she had thus spoken, Thomas withdrew.
156:1.5 Then came forward Simon Zelotes to remonstrate with Norana. Said Simon: “Woman, you are a Greek -speaking gentile. It is not right that you should expect the Master to take the bread intended for the children of the favored household and cast it to the dogs.” But Norana refused to take offense at Simon's thrust. She replied only: “Yes, teacher, I understand your words. I am only a dog in the eyes of the Jews, but as concerns your Master, I am a believing dog. I am determined that he shall see my daughter, for I am persuaded that, if he shall but look upon her, he will heal her. And even you, my good man, would not dare to deprive the dogs of the privilege of obtaining the crumbs which chance to fall from the children's table.”
156:1.6 At just this time the little girl was seized with a violent convulsion before them all, and the mother cried out: “There, you can see that my child is possessed by an evil spirit. If our need does not impress you, it would appeal to your Master, who I have been told loves all men and dares even to heal the gentiles when they believe. You are not worthy to be his disciples. I will not go until my child has been cured.”
156:1.7 Jesus, who had heard all of this conversation through an open window, now came outside, much to their surprise, and said: “O woman, great is your faith, so great that I cannot withhold that which you desire; go your way in peace. Your daughter already has been made whole.” And the little girl was well from that hour. As Norana and the child took leave, Jesus entreated them to tell no one of this occurrence; and while his associates did comply with this request, the mother and the child ceased not to proclaim the fact of the little girl's healing throughout all the countryside and even in Sidon, so much so that Jesus found it advisable to change his lodgings within a few days.
156:1.8 The next day, as Jesus taught his apostles, commenting on the cure of the daughter of the Syrian woman, he said: “And so it has been all the way along; you see for yourselves how the gentiles are able to exercise saving faith in the teachings of the gospel of the kingdom of heaven. Verily, verily, I tell you that the Father's kingdom shall be taken by the gentiles if the children of Abraham are not minded to show faith enough to enter therein.” UB 1955
So Jesus himself never called anyone a Gentile dog, it was one of his apostles that used the term. The story was simply misremembered years later when it was retold.
Nobody reads that crap
That's not true, we know that the closed minded haters can't swallow their pride like the religious idiots who put Jesus on trial, rather its the lurkers who don't respond that find this thread because it's all over the net. TOL's trolls just keep it out in front. Its not for you Patrick, you're a good boy.
Not going to read all that but caught you not finding the truth in the bible. You can't find what is true and what is not. Just radom truths and random liesThe Bible was written by many different authors, redactors, scribes in different time periods and under different circumstances,....just like any book written by humans, it is subject to bias, imperfections, conditionings, literary devices that serve its authors, and so on. (hence some presumed 'historical narratives' are more like mythology or allegorical descriptions rather than actual 'historical occurances',...and still whether it be one or the other doesn't necessarily affect how its 'interpreted' or what religious value or spiritual good the account conveys) - what matters is what the text is "communicating", also understanding the cultural-context and writers psychology behind it all.
A truth is a truth wherever it is found, and will be 'relative' to the 'context' in which it is described or revealed. Hence the many different presentations and interpretations of any given text or religious subject/principle/ideal, etc.
So called celestial beings have visited our planet, as described in many different religious texts, not just in the Bible or UB. If you're going to believe Gabriel made appearances and spoke to people down here, and many other angels or theophanies of 'God',...then its no great stretch to be open to the possibility/probability that 'celestial beings' can CONTINUE to visit and give messages to mankind...as long as there is need for such, hence there being various 'epochal revelations' (dispensations of light given to man at certain junctures of time). Jesus bestowal to the planet was the 4th Epochal Revelation,....the UB presents itself as the 5th. See here. So you see, this is a discussion on religious principles and philosophical concepts, etc. All life is a progressive evolution, for this is what 'creation' is engaged in.....such is the relativity of space-time inter-action, the ever unfolding life and consciousness of Spirit involved in matter, the whole play of energy and light in living life-forms. Such is life.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
That's fine TB if too lazy or unwilling to engage me philosophically or theologically beyond your narrow tunnel vision and terms by which you presume to define truth. Truth is not limited to any given book or words written by man. A book (words) may be more or less instrumental in explaining or describing various truths, but the spirit of truth itself and the facts of nature/reality/existence...is a book more true, if we would study its pages and draw from its wisdom.
What is shared that might be too embellished for you is for our general readership in their explorations, so its all good
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
A wonderful story found in the gospels,....I'm sorry you find it worthless. Expounded further in the papers, it shows Jesus did not call the woman a dog, but saw that all could enter into the kingdom of heaven by a true and living faith. You don't find that wonderful? The gospel of the kingdom is for all peoples, not just a particular tribe of people, neither with those who have a "chosen people" complex. God's love is infinite and universal. Isn't that awesome?
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
I read it
Welcome to the thread djhow
,That is one way to look at it,...since in the eyes of the Spirit in our divine sonship,....we are already perfect, however it is in the unfolding of space and time that we evolve, progress, undergo 'process' (transformation/sancitification) to the ultimate apex-point of this 'realization' in our participation with God's will. The kingdom is indeed NOW as we realize and live it amongst one another in love. In 'Christ' (the anointing of realized sonship or God-consciousness)....there is no division or exclusion of any race, tribe or gender.....all are one in the Spirit. The UB of course shares this but in its own terms and nomenclature, which one learns by reading the material :thumb:
yes we are all sponges in the water of Life and we hold onto ourselves tightly that there is not much water but as we let go of ourselves we open up and soak up more of God
and we can not be in the water any more than we are. We have the fullness and abundance of the river. You can't ask for more of God
surrender to God and trust
and we can not be in the water any more than we are. We have the fullness and abundance of the river. You can't ask for more of God
surrender to God and trust
I've kinda jumped in so forgive me if I'm out of place but when Jesus was asked about the kingdom and living the spiritual life he always pointed them to nature. consider the lillies, the kingdom is like a seed and while scripture has unfolded truths so does nature as Jesus taught. He did teach from the scriptures we're told but not what he said about them. Once you see the "Way" you can learn something of God from everything in life
Lazy and wise are two different thingsThat's fine TB if too lazy or unwilling to engage me philosophically or theologically beyond your narrow tunnel vision and terms by which you presume to define truth. Truth is not limited to any given book or words written by man. A book (words) may be more or less instrumental in explaining or describing various truths, but the spirit of truth itself and the facts of nature/reality/existence...is a book more true, if we would study its pages and draw from its wisdom.
What is shared that might be too embellished for you is for our general readership in their explorations, so its all good
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
epi-center and omnipresence.......
epi-center and omnipresence.......
The UB presents a pan-en-theistic world view, God being both 'immanent' and 'transcendent' (inside and outside creation). Aspects of God's omnipresence are also manifested thru his divine Sons and angels ministering in various sectors of creation, amid the over-all, all-pervading and inter-acting presence of his universal Spirit. UB cosmology goes thru all this in a wonderful way, showing the various aspects, levels and degress of God's involvement within creation and his own absolute sovereignty and glory in his own divine habitation at the Isle of Paradise, which is at the very epi-center of the cosmos. The Universal Father is the First Source and Center of all reality, like the hub at the center of an ever revolving wheel. This puts our vision of Deity as central to all that is.....as the 7 superuniverses and outer space levels of potential creation extend out from and around the center.
'Deity' is the nucleus.
epi-center and omnipresence.......
yes we are all sponges in the water of Life and we hold onto ourselves tightly that there is not much water but as we let go of ourselves we open up and soak up more of God
and we can not be in the water any more than we are. We have the fullness and abundance of the river. You can't ask for more of God
surrender to God and trust
The UB presents a pan-en-theistic world view, God being both 'immanent' and 'transcendent' (inside and outside creation). Aspects of God's omnipresence are also manifested thru his divine Sons and angels ministering in various sectors of creation, amid the over-all, all-pervading and inter-acting presence of his universal Spirit. UB cosmology goes thru all this in a wonderful way, showing the various aspects, levels and degress of God's involvement within creation and his own absolute sovereignty and glory in his own divine habitation at the Isle of Paradise, which is at the very epi-center of the cosmos. The Universal Father is the First Source and Center of all reality, like the hub at the center of an ever revolving wheel. This puts our vision of Deity as central to all that is.....as the 7 superuniverses and outer space levels of potential creation extend out from and around the center.
'Deity' is the nucleus.
I would say no one has seen God, God is nothing. The opposite of nothing is the material world. It really is easy to believe in God without an image and constructs of the mind.
When scientists unify the quantum with the physical they will discover that they have zero on one side of the equation. They will then detect(sensory) a machine to detect nothing to tell them that nothing is nothing and that they can't detect it.
When scientists unify the quantum with the physical they will discover that they have zero on one side of the equation. They will then detect(sensory) a machine to detect nothing to tell them that nothing is nothing and that they can't detect it.
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"In the advancing concepts of primitive man the spirit world was eventually regarded as being unresponsive to the ordinary mortal. Only the exceptional among humans could catch the ear of the gods; only the extraordinary man or woman would be heard by the spirits. Religion thus enters upon a new phase, a stage wherein it gradually becomes secondhanded; always does a medicine man, a shaman, or a priest intervene between the religionist and the object of worship. And today most Urantia systems of organized religious belief are passing through this level of evolutionary development." UB 1955 90:0.2 http://www.urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p090.htm
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
The 'No-Thing' from 'every-thing' has its source.......
The 'No-Thing' from 'every-thing' has its source.......
Well,..this is diving into the realm of pure metaphysics.....but not sure the UB has any terms or meanings for that which we call the quantum "no-thing" - now on a pure non-physical level of existence,....we can say 'God' is 'no-thing',...for 'God' is pure Spirit. So,.....'every-thing' comes from or arises within 'no-thing', but this 'no-thing' is not an absence of being, or a negation of essence. To say all comes from or appears from 'no-thing' is to recognize the spirit-energy-consciousness source of all that exists, apart from which nothing could exist. So, it depends on how we qualify and describe our 'terms' and in what 'context'
The UB offers its own insights into science and metaphysics using the human knowledge of the early 20th century, and any expansions the revelators thought to add at the time of transmission.
On God:
Of course a computer or machine may not be able to detect that which is pure spirit or intelligence, since such is prior to and transcends any material sense. Likewise, it is pure organic/existential intelligence that holds primacy to any form of 'artificial' or created intelligence.
The 'No-Thing' from 'every-thing' has its source.......
Well,..this is diving into the realm of pure metaphysics.....but not sure the UB has any terms or meanings for that which we call the quantum "no-thing"
- now on a pure non-physical level of existence,....we can say 'God' is 'no-thing',...for 'God' is pure Spirit. So,.....'every-thing' comes from or arises within 'no-thing', but this 'no-thing' is not an absence of being, or a negation of essence. To say all comes from or appears from 'no-thing' is to recognize the spirit-energy-consciousness source of all that exists, apart from which nothing could exist. So, it depends on how we qualify and describe our 'terms' and in what 'context' The UB offers its own insights into science and metaphysics using the human knowledge of the early 20th century, and any expansions the revelators thought to add at the time of transmission.
On God:
Of course a computer or machine may not be able to detect that which is pure spirit or intelligence, since such is prior to and transcends any material sense. Likewise, it is pure organic/existential intelligence that holds primacy to any form of 'artificial' or created intelligence.
What people don't get is that Jesus said he was the son of God and he said to the Jews you don't know my Father and that before Abraham Jesus was and they wanted to stone him.
God is the unknown the nothing that all names hang on including Jehovah and Jesus never said he was the son of Jehovah he said he was the son of God and that God is Love.
It only takes a child to say how can God be so nasty and be Love at the same time and you end up running round like a victim saying "Don't mind God he gets a but grumpy sometimes' you can't reconcile it unless you are a victim to let God off with injustice like Genocide and slaughtering of animals and blood for sacrifices.
No Jesus was the son of God. The unknown who has never spoke and on his visit he satisfied the law's demand for a pound of flesh for the debt to the very people who had taken God's name and made being a child of God an exclusive Jewish.
He is the light that lights all people and that light is Christ in you and it is the power to become children of God (not Jehovah)
The nicean creed has so much damage to answer for. The Father? Not Jesus's father
God is the unknown the nothing that all names hang on including Jehovah and Jesus never said he was the son of Jehovah he said he was the son of God and that God is Love.
It only takes a child to say how can God be so nasty and be Love at the same time and you end up running round like a victim saying "Don't mind God he gets a but grumpy sometimes' you can't reconcile it unless you are a victim to let God off with injustice like Genocide and slaughtering of animals and blood for sacrifices.
No Jesus was the son of God. The unknown who has never spoke and on his visit he satisfied the law's demand for a pound of flesh for the debt to the very people who had taken God's name and made being a child of God an exclusive Jewish.
He is the light that lights all people and that light is Christ in you and it is the power to become children of God (not Jehovah)
The nicean creed has so much damage to answer for. The Father? Not Jesus's father
Lon
Well-known member
:think: I'll bite:
:doh: says a 'human' who makes different statements, under different circumstances, worse...however...than these biblical authors :noway: and is subject to bias, incredibly blatant with his own imperfections, malconditionings, poor literary devices that serve this blatantly sacrilegious malcontent.
lain:You are a borg, however. You are the cookie-cutter punch-out of the mindless borg drone.
malconditioning isn't actually a word, but it phonemically sounds okay, entomologically looks okay. "occurances" is not. Why can't borgs spell? Oh yeah..."ALL" relative...
lain: (this isn't about spelling...its all about being unnecessarily and lacking being blatantly relative about truth when it mattered).It isn't where John Lennon got material for "Imagine." Acts 4:12 John 14:6 1 Peter 2:4 I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to understand the clarity. At that point, your listening skills are a point of 'convenience.',...and still whether it be one or the other doesn't necessarily affect how its 'interpreted' or what religious value or spiritual good the account conveys
lain: "Truth is truth" is redundant and poor definition. It is essentially meaningless and flavorless. No truth can be relative or it is, by definition, no longer true, but then of course, you randomly said 'truth is truth' for definition. :nono:Try: ideal, essential, consistent, correct
Cliché spiritual beings aren't aliens from other planets. This is 3-dimensional thinking. The UB folks were stuck there.
No great stretch? Opinionate and speculate for life application much? My advice: "You play Russian roulette and Borg-make-believe on your own dime."
GROSS jump from speculation to not even a sustained conclusion from said gymnastics. It isn't even gymnastics that you could computer simulate, so far is it removed from your speculative premise. It is merely excusing behavior of cognitive dissonance.
:yawn: Looked, again :sigh: and never impressed :nono: No idea why you even think such could be on par with scripture. It can't.
lain: View attachment 24270View attachment 24271
:think: View attachment 24272
:dizzy: Hallucinogens? John Lennon had that excuse. Child of the 60's?
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Lon
Well-known member
Clown-like mischaracterizations not-with-standing. These are the ramblings of the shallow mind looking for simplistic answers.
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