The Jewish authorities used the same technique, they heard Jesus and threw him out.
Caino
The Late Great Urantia Revelation
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The Jewish authorities used the same technique, they heard Jesus and threw him out.
Caino
There was no committee involved when the apostles identified Jesus:
Matthew 16
Peter Declares That Jesus Is the Messiah
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.” Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
Caino
Matthew 16
Peter Declares That Jesus Is the Messiah
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.” Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
Caino
bucksplasher
New member
An excellent quote and right on target.
Notice how Peter given the keys to a Church that will live on through the years.
This is the Church that should be reincorporating any new insights into its structure.
You seem to have uncorked a similar but slightly new and improved (to enlightened souls) version. While it would seem that the older bark may have sprung a few leaks from time to time, there is no danger of her pulling a Titanic. She sails on and is willing to pickup passengers from floundering rafts.
tWINs
Context, the church has bent the context of this exchange for years to establish its authority. The subject isn't Peter, It’s that the Father authenticated the identity of the Son. It’s the fact that the kingdom of heaven is built on the faith in the Father for guidance. Faith is "the rock", the church is purely a human, social institution. Its behavior over the years proves that it is not the body. But as I pointed out, Jesus has "fostered" the church in as much as it would listen to him.
Caino
Peters confession
http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1409#U157_3_3
"Jesus, still standing, then said to the twelve: “You are my chosen ambassadors, but I know that, in the circumstances, you could not entertain this belief as a result of mere human knowledge. This is a revelation of the spirit of my Father to your inmost souls. And when, therefore, you make this confession by the insight of the spirit of my Father which dwells within you, I am led to declare that upon this foundation will I build the brotherhood of the kingdom of heaven. Upon this rock of spiritual reality will I build the living temple of spiritual fellowship in the eternal realities of my Father’s kingdom. All the forces of evil and the hosts of sin shall not prevail against this human fraternity of the divine spirit. And while my Father’s spirit shall ever be the divine guide and mentor of all who enter the bonds of this spirit fellowship, to you and your successors I now deliver the keys of the outward kingdom—the authority over things temporal—the social and economic features of this association of men and women as fellows of the kingdom.” And again he charged them, for the time being, that they should tell no man that he was the Son of God."
Caino
http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1409#U157_3_3
"Jesus, still standing, then said to the twelve: “You are my chosen ambassadors, but I know that, in the circumstances, you could not entertain this belief as a result of mere human knowledge. This is a revelation of the spirit of my Father to your inmost souls. And when, therefore, you make this confession by the insight of the spirit of my Father which dwells within you, I am led to declare that upon this foundation will I build the brotherhood of the kingdom of heaven. Upon this rock of spiritual reality will I build the living temple of spiritual fellowship in the eternal realities of my Father’s kingdom. All the forces of evil and the hosts of sin shall not prevail against this human fraternity of the divine spirit. And while my Father’s spirit shall ever be the divine guide and mentor of all who enter the bonds of this spirit fellowship, to you and your successors I now deliver the keys of the outward kingdom—the authority over things temporal—the social and economic features of this association of men and women as fellows of the kingdom.” And again he charged them, for the time being, that they should tell no man that he was the Son of God."
Caino
bucksplasher
New member
The revelators stated that they would use "modern phraseology " by permission.
The Bible that is used today has been translated in the same way many times, it is not in the original language spoken by Christ so I don't have a problem with it. If the revelators used the Farsi that Jesus spoke then none of us would know what was being said.
When Jesus returns what language will he speak?.........hint, by that time there will be one united world and one common language.
Caino
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
many mediums for God......
many mediums for God......
As Caino noted, a modern day revelation or portrayal of Jesus teachings would naturally be communicated in modern day language inflections, paraphrased so we could understand it most effectively. The canonical gospels could be subject to so many revisions/interpolations, additions/subtractions, etc. although for the most part they have come to use fairly uniform, with some manuscript variances.
I draw from other sources for Jesus teaching than just what certain persons thought was 'standard' to include in the NT (the scribes, canonizers, church-state delegators, etc.) - theres the UB, Aquarian Gospel, Edgar Cayce readings, James E Padgett messages, speakers for the ascended masters, Gnostic/apocryphal/non-canonical gospels, and other more modern channels that claim to be speaking mediums for Jesus or 'Christ Consciousness'
- I'd think its the essence, quality and spirit of the message that really matters.
pj
many mediums for God......
As Caino noted, a modern day revelation or portrayal of Jesus teachings would naturally be communicated in modern day language inflections, paraphrased so we could understand it most effectively. The canonical gospels could be subject to so many revisions/interpolations, additions/subtractions, etc. although for the most part they have come to use fairly uniform, with some manuscript variances.
I draw from other sources for Jesus teaching than just what certain persons thought was 'standard' to include in the NT (the scribes, canonizers, church-state delegators, etc.) - theres the UB, Aquarian Gospel, Edgar Cayce readings, James E Padgett messages, speakers for the ascended masters, Gnostic/apocryphal/non-canonical gospels, and other more modern channels that claim to be speaking mediums for Jesus or 'Christ Consciousness'
- I'd think its the essence, quality and spirit of the message that really matters.pj
bucksplasher
New member
As Caino noted, a modern day revelation or portrayal of Jesus teachings would naturally be communicated in modern day language inflections, paraphrased so we could understand it most effectively. The canonical gospels could be subject to so many revisions/interpolations, additions/subtractions, etc. although for the most part they have come to use fairly uniform, with some manuscript variances.
I draw from other sources for Jesus teaching than just what certain persons thought was 'standard' to include in the NT (the scribes, canonizers, church-state delegators, etc.) - theres the UB, Aquarian Gospel, Edgar Cayce readings, James E Padgett messages, speakers for the ascended masters, Gnostic/apocryphal/non-canonical gospels, and other more modern channels that claim to be speaking mediums for Jesus or 'Christ Consciousness'
pj
And the "above" is why Christ promised to be with His church throughout the ages.
There was a saying if it's not broke don't try to fix it.
The Church's action are not always kosher but her teachings are true.
I can't vouch for the "U Papers".
tWINs
PS I'd think its the essence, quality and spirit of the message that really matters and I've yet to see an improvement over the "originals".
Bucksplasher, the horse and buggy wasn't "broken", it's just that the gas engine was an improvement, an update. But i can appreciate that the guys that made the buggy whip's were fearful of change.
Caino
bucksplasher
New member
But you forget...even with your own teaching we are not talking "buggy whips" or anything physical.
We are talking of "love" and as far as I know, that along with hope and faith, which will end with time, only "love" will last eternally.
Does "U Papers" shed "new" light on love?
tWINs
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Agape
Agape
Absolutely,...Part 4 of the UB is the life, teachings of Jesus (covering every year of his 'mortal' life) - the record affirms and builds onto the fundamental 'law of love' found in the NT, enlargening our conception and comprehension of what 'loving service' to our fellowman is, and how such love is to be conducted, inspired by the Spirit. The message of Jesus in this respect is therefore "enhanced" and "enlarged" appropriate to such being a re-newed revelation for our times.
pj
Agape
Absolutely,...Part 4 of the UB is the life, teachings of Jesus (covering every year of his 'mortal' life) - the record affirms and builds onto the fundamental 'law of love' found in the NT, enlargening our conception and comprehension of what 'loving service' to our fellowman is, and how such love is to be conducted, inspired by the Spirit. The message of Jesus in this respect is therefore "enhanced" and "enlarged" appropriate to such being a re-newed revelation for our times.
pj
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bucksplasher
New member
Pretty difficult to "enhance" and "enlarge" perfection.
A God who lays down His life
for His friends out of love?
He now returns minute by minute as each mass reaches consecration time. He is consumed with love for those who consume Him.
Others scoff and laugh saying "If you are really there come out of that "host" and we'll believe".
You'll improve on that?
tWINs
Bucksplasher,
You seem to view this as a competition, an either or, all or nothing. More has been revealed. Would you have rejected Johns revelation 50 years after Jesus left? Our understanding has now been greatly expanded, what are you afraid of?
"To “follow Jesus” means to personally share his religious faith and to enter into the spirit of the Master’s life of unselfish service for man. One of the most important things in human living is to find out what Jesus believed, to discover his ideals, and to strive for the achievement of his exalted life purpose. Of all human knowledge, that which is of greatest value is to know the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it."
Caino
bucksplasher
New member
The "further" revelation is changing the "original".
Two opposites cannot be true.
The "seers" can contradict "the Fathers" but when they do ...give me the Fathers.
I'll take the "old" road and you take the "new" road. I just might get to Scotland before ye.
tWINs
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
God is One....
God is One....
This is 'assuming' that 'perfection' within a given tradition, body of doctrines, or religious institution has already been granted. - it also assumes that there can no longer be any 'progressive revelation'. This is the kind of mentality that that fosters 'dogmatism' and spiritual stagnation.
Such serves as an 'example-picture' of love, an example among others.
Thats great, from a 'sacramental' perspective to those who enjoin their faith in the 'ritual'.
Well thats silly, since the communion is 'spiritual' in nature and 'God' is incorporeal in essence, no matter what form we 'touch' him thru.
There's always room for improvement, development, understanding, progressive revelation,....unless you are already absolutely perfect. Jesus said, 'be you perfect, even as your Heavenly Father is perfect....but here he spoke of how we demonstrate love. However to mortals having a human experience in space and time...this is an evolutionary process, where 'learning' can take place. Have you attained a state where you can no longer "learn"? No church, community, body of teachings, scriptures, doctrinal statements are necessarily 'perfect'...but may serve one in a 'religious' sense.
Later revelations do not 'change' the 'formerly given', but add to, build upon, enhance or augment such. They will also correct any former teachings or conceptions if they need to be. They both 'build upon' and 'add' where such is appropriate to the time of the revelation given, as man receives in ratio to his capacity or readiness to receive.
Could be a matter of splitting hairs there, - but you're probably referring to Catholic tradition and its cherished artifacts, or the assumed historicity of the so called 'Fathers'. Wonderful. The UB's teaching on the essentials of spiritual truth, principles and religious living continues to hold and agree as the real practice of the religion that Jesus lived as an example to all, of doing the Father's will. All the "other stuff" are but religious church props and outfits, ritual-dressing if you will, giving the 'air' of religiosity. Thats all fine, if it leads to worshipping the Father in spirit and truth, and affects genuine religious experience and service.
Truth is the only road, whether one reflects to more ancient pathways, or that same pathway enhanced and illuminated in the present time by the Spirit. There is no division here, since Truth is One. The religious ego doing the 'dividing' is making such a duality, when in truth...there is none. Look out from the perspective of the infinite One, and any differentiations will be naturally appropriated according to their usefulness.
pj
God is One....
This is 'assuming' that 'perfection' within a given tradition, body of doctrines, or religious institution has already been granted. - it also assumes that there can no longer be any 'progressive revelation'. This is the kind of mentality that that fosters 'dogmatism' and spiritual stagnation.
Such serves as an 'example-picture' of love, an example among others.
Thats great, from a 'sacramental' perspective to those who enjoin their faith in the 'ritual'.
Well thats silly, since the communion is 'spiritual' in nature and 'God' is incorporeal in essence, no matter what form we 'touch' him thru.
There's always room for improvement, development, understanding, progressive revelation,....unless you are already absolutely perfect. Jesus said, 'be you perfect, even as your Heavenly Father is perfect....but here he spoke of how we demonstrate love. However to mortals having a human experience in space and time...this is an evolutionary process, where 'learning' can take place. Have you attained a state where you can no longer "learn"? No church, community, body of teachings, scriptures, doctrinal statements are necessarily 'perfect'...but may serve one in a 'religious' sense.
Later revelations do not 'change' the 'formerly given', but add to, build upon, enhance or augment such. They will also correct any former teachings or conceptions if they need to be. They both 'build upon' and 'add' where such is appropriate to the time of the revelation given, as man receives in ratio to his capacity or readiness to receive.
Could be a matter of splitting hairs there, - but you're probably referring to Catholic tradition and its cherished artifacts, or the assumed historicity of the so called 'Fathers'. Wonderful. The UB's teaching on the essentials of spiritual truth, principles and religious living continues to hold and agree as the real practice of the religion that Jesus lived as an example to all, of doing the Father's will. All the "other stuff" are but religious church props and outfits, ritual-dressing if you will, giving the 'air' of religiosity. Thats all fine, if it leads to worshipping the Father in spirit and truth, and affects genuine religious experience and service.
Truth is the only road, whether one reflects to more ancient pathways, or that same pathway enhanced and illuminated in the present time by the Spirit. There is no division here, since Truth is One. The religious ego doing the 'dividing' is making such a duality, when in truth...there is none. Look out from the perspective of the infinite One, and any differentiations will be naturally appropriated according to their usefulness.
pj
bucksplasher
New member
Well thats silly, since the communion is 'spiritual' in nature and 'God' is incorporeal in essence, no matter what form we 'touch' him thru
And so we come to the "splitting" of the ways.
Is UP right in further revelation (along with Protestant splitters) in that there is no transubstantiation?
I say no you say yes . I walk with the fathers you walk with the moderns. While we walk and talk together in this physical world in the spiritual, we walk separately.
tWINs
PS That is all conditioned on wether you heal, cast out demons or call Jesus you lord and master. Who is not against us is for us.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
recognizing the form, but not being bound by it.......
recognizing the form, but not being bound by it.......
Lets not miss the forest for the trees.
The doctrine of 'transubstantiation' is another subject in itself, which adressed previously doesnt merit something to divide oneself over IMO. It can be a meaningful ritual for those who engage it, and from a UB perspective it is a memorial ritual primarily, not something dogmatically explained or asserted metaphysically (like as in 'transubstantiation'), although of course is a 'spiritual sharing' of the life of God/Christ, - the 'memorial' aspects of the ritual holds its priority as it conveys that 'spiritual life sharing' without focus on the material elements or emblems somehow transforming themselves to be Jesus ACTUAL flesh and blood. - this additive by some religionists is not necessary you see (only to those who insist!) The memorial and sharing of the life of Christ which the ritual reminds one and represents is sufficient in itself, without unncessary assumptions.
To leave all other teaching streams or 'revelations' just because they dont teach 'transubstantiation' would seem rather petty to some, seeing how Jesus teaching and 'goodnews' encompasses so much more than just that 'sacrament'. Again, the adding of pagan-elements, mythos and archetypes of the dying/redeeming god-man is fine if one can incorporate such into their 'theology' without making it into a dogma. Spirit is not bound to any one particular form, rite or fashion, but is infinitely open and liberal to lead and guide, incorporating new forms and understandings of more perfect knowledge.
pj
recognizing the form, but not being bound by it.......
Lets not miss the forest for the trees.
The doctrine of 'transubstantiation' is another subject in itself, which adressed previously doesnt merit something to divide oneself over IMO. It can be a meaningful ritual for those who engage it, and from a UB perspective it is a memorial ritual primarily, not something dogmatically explained or asserted metaphysically (like as in 'transubstantiation'), although of course is a 'spiritual sharing' of the life of God/Christ, - the 'memorial' aspects of the ritual holds its priority as it conveys that 'spiritual life sharing' without focus on the material elements or emblems somehow transforming themselves to be Jesus ACTUAL flesh and blood. - this additive by some religionists is not necessary you see (only to those who insist!) The memorial and sharing of the life of Christ which the ritual reminds one and represents is sufficient in itself, without unncessary assumptions.
To leave all other teaching streams or 'revelations' just because they dont teach 'transubstantiation' would seem rather petty to some, seeing how Jesus teaching and 'goodnews' encompasses so much more than just that 'sacrament'. Again, the adding of pagan-elements, mythos and archetypes of the dying/redeeming god-man is fine if one can incorporate such into their 'theology' without making it into a dogma. Spirit is not bound to any one particular form, rite or fashion, but is infinitely open and liberal to lead and guide, incorporating new forms and understandings of more perfect knowledge.
pj
bucksplasher
New member
That still leaves "calling Christ your Lord" your main mantra. If you put your "other" realms, your other "streams" your other "guru's" before Him than you are a good man but a delusional one.
Christ called Himself "the way, the truth and the light" do you put "others" before Him?
tWINs
The "further" is expanding and enlargeing the other 4 preveous revelations.
THE GIFT OF REVELATION
92:4.1 Revelation is evolutionary but always progressive. Down through the ages of a world’s history, the revelations of religion are ever-expanding and successively more enlightening. It is the mission of revelation to sort and censor the successive religions of evolution. But if revelation is to exalt and upstep the religions of evolution, then must such divine visitations portray teachings which are not too far removed from the thought and reactions of the age in which they are presented. Thus must and does revelation always keep in touch with evolution. Always must the religion of revelation be limited by man’s capacity of receptivity.
92:4.2 But regardless of apparent connection or derivation, the religions of revelation are always characterized by a belief in some Deity of final value and in some concept of the survival of personality identity after death.
92:4.3 Evolutionary religion is sentimental, not logical. It is man’s reaction to belief in a hypothetical ghost-spirit world—the human belief-reflex, excited by the realization and fear of the unknown. Revelatory religion is propounded by the real spiritual world; it is the response of the superintellectual cosmos to the mortal hunger to believe in, and depend upon, the universal Deities. Evolutionary religion pictures the circuitous gropings of humanity in quest of truth; revelatory religion is that very truth.
92:4.4 There have been many events of religious revelation but only five of epochal significance. These were as follows:
1. The Dalamatian teachings. (500,000 BC) The true concept of the First Source and Center was first promulgated on Urantia by the one hundred corporeal members of Prince Caligastia’s staff. This expanding revelation of Deity went on for more than three hundred thousand years until it was suddenly terminated by the planetary secession and the disruption of the teaching regime. Except for the work of Van, the influence of the Dalamatian revelation was practically lost to the whole world. Even the Nodites had forgotten this truth by the time of Adam’s arrival. Of all who received the teachings of the one hundred, the red men held them longest, but the idea of the Great Spirit was but a hazy concept in Amerindian religion when contact with Christianity greatly clarified and strengthened it.
2. The Edenic teachings. (from the year 1934 Adam and Eve arrived, 37,848 years ago) Adam and Eve again portrayed the concept of the Father of all to the evolutionary peoples. The disruption of the first Eden halted the course of the Adamic revelation before it had ever fully started. But the aborted teachings of Adam were carried on by the Sethite priests, and some of these truths have never been entirely lost to the world. The entire trend of Levantine religious evolution was modified by the teachings of the Sethites. But by 2500 B.C. mankind had largely lost sight of the revelation sponsored in the days of Eden.
3. Melchizedek of Salem. (1,973 BC) This emergency Son of Nebadon inaugurated the third revelation of truth on Urantia. The cardinal precepts of his teachings were trust and faith. He taught trust in the omnipotent beneficence of God and proclaimed that faith was the act by which men earned God’s favor. His teachings gradually commingled with the beliefs and practices of various evolutionary religions and finally developed into those theologic systems present on Urantia at the opening of the first millennium after Christ.
4. Jesus of Nazareth. (August 21 at noon, 7 B.C. ) Christ Michael presented for the fourth time to Urantia the concept of God as the Universal Father, and this teaching has generally persisted ever since. The essence of his teaching was love and service, the loving worship which a creature son voluntarily gives in recognition of, and response to, the loving ministry of God his Father; the freewill service which such creature sons bestow upon their brethren in the joyous realization that in this service they are likewise serving God the Father.
5. The Urantia Papers. (1934 AD) The papers, of which this is one, constitute the most recent presentation of truth to the mortals of Urantia. These papers differ from all previous revelations, for they are not the work of a single universe personality but a composite presentation by many beings. But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space. While such admissions as this may possibly detract from the immediate force and authority of all revelations, the time has arrived on Urantia when it is advisable to make such frank statements, even at the risk of weakening the future influence and authority of this, the most recent of the revelations of truth to the mortal races of Urantia.
Caino
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