bucksplasher
New member
So what is the UP's position on human cloning? On artificial contraception and conception? on the "just"wage etc.?
tWINs
PS With all the xtra revelation available I'm sure it will be far more enlightened than Catholicism.
The Late Great Urantia Revelation
- Thread starter Caino
- Start date
- Status
So what is the UP's position on human cloning? On artificial contraception and conception? on the "just"wage etc.?
tWINs
PS With all the xtra revelation available I'm sure it will be far more enlightened than Catholicism.
Nothing on cloning, lots on eugenics but no direction on how we are to approach the issue. Nothing on contraception or conception or abortion. Some stuff on economic fairness, for example Jesus said:
COUNSELING THE RICH MAN
132:5.1 A certain rich man, a Roman citizen and a Stoic, became greatly interested in Jesus’ teaching, having been introduced by Angamon. After many intimate conferences this wealthy citizen asked Jesus what he would do with wealth if he had it, and Jesus answered him: “I would bestow material wealth for the enhancement of material life, even as I would minister knowledge, wisdom, and spiritual service for the enrichment of the intellectual life, the ennoblement of the social life, and the advancement of the spiritual life. I would administer material wealth as a wise and effective trustee of the resources of one generation for the benefit and ennoblement of the next and succeeding generations.”
132:5.2 But the rich man was not fully satisfied with Jesus’ answer. He made bold to ask again: “But what do you think a man in my position should do with his wealth? Should I keep it, or should I give it away?” And when Jesus perceived that he really desired to know more of the truth about his loyalty to God and his duty to men, he further answered: “My good friend, I discern that you are a sincere seeker after wisdom and an honest lover of truth; therefore am I minded to lay before you my view of the solution of your problems having to do with the responsibilities of wealth. I do this because you have asked for my counsel, and in giving you this advice, I am not concerned with the wealth of any other rich man; I am offering advice only to you and for your personal guidance. If you honestly desire to regard your wealth as a trust, if you really wish to become a wise and efficient steward of your accumulated wealth, then would I counsel you to make the following analysis of the sources of your riches: Ask yourself, and do your best to find the honest answer, whence came this wealth? And as a help in the study of the sources of your great fortune, I would suggest that you bear in mind the following ten different methods of amassing material wealth:
“1. Inherited wealth—riches derived from parents and other ancestors.
“2. Discovered wealth—riches derived from the uncultivated resources of mother earth.
“3. Trade wealth—riches obtained as a fair profit in the exchange and barter of material goods.
“4. Unfair wealth—riches derived from the unfair exploitation or the enslavement of one’s fellows.
“5. Interest wealth—income derived from the fair and just earning possibilities of invested capital.
“6. Genius wealth—riches accruing from the rewards of the creative and inventive endowments of the human mind.
“7. Accidental wealth—riches derived from the generosity of one’s fellows or taking origin in the circumstances of life.
“8. Stolen wealth—riches secured by unfairness dishonesty, theft, or fraud.
“9. Trust funds—wealth lodged in your hands by your fellows for some specific use, now or in the future.
“10. Earned wealth—riches derived directly from your own personal labor, the fair and just reward of your own daily efforts of mind and body.
132:5.13 “And so, my friend, if you would be a faithful and just steward of your large fortune, before God and in service to men, you must approximately divide your wealth into these ten grand divisions, and then proceed to administer each portion in accordance with the wise and honest interpretation of the laws of justice, equity, fairness, and true efficiency; albeit, the God of heaven would not condemn you if sometimes you erred, in doubtful situations, on the side of merciful and unselfish regard for the distress of the suffering victims of the unfortunate circumstances of mortal life. When in honest doubt about the equity and justice of material situations, let your decisions favor those who are in need, favor those who suffer the misfortune of undeserved hardships.”
132:5.14 After discussing these matters for several hours and in response to the rich man’s request for further and more detailed instruction, Jesus went on to amplify his advice, in substance saying: “While I offer further suggestions concerning your attitude toward wealth, I would admonish you to receive my counsel as given only to you and for your personal guidance. I speak only for myself and to you as an inquiring friend. I adjure you not to become a dictator as to how other rich men shall regard their wealth. I would advise you:
132:5.15 “1. As steward of inherited wealth you should consider its sources. You are under moral obligation to represent the past generation in the honest transmittal of legitimate wealth to succeeding generations after subtracting a fair toll for the benefit of the present generation. But you are not obligated to perpetuate any dishonesty or injustice involved in the unfair accumulation of wealth by your ancestors. Any portion of your inherited wealth which turns out to have been derived through fraud or unfairness you may disburse in accordance with your convictions of justice, generosity, and restitution. The remainder of your legitimate inherited wealth you may use in equity and transmit in security as the trustee of one generation for another. Wise discrimination and sound judgment should dictate your decisions regarding the bequest of riches to your successors.
132:5.16 “2. Everyone who enjoys wealth as a result of discovery should remember that one individual can live on earth but a short season and should, therefore, make adequate provision for the sharing of these discoveries in helpful ways by the largest possible number of his fellow men. While the discoverer should not be denied all reward for efforts of discovery, neither should he selfishly presume to lay claim to all of the advantages and blessings to be derived from the uncovering of nature’s hoarded resources.
132:5.17 “3. As long as men choose to conduct the world’s business by trade and barter, they are entitled to a fair and legitimate profit. Every tradesman deserves wages for his services; the merchant is entitled to his hire. The fairness of trade and the honest treatment accorded one’s fellows in the organized business of the world create many different sorts of profit wealth, and all these sources of wealth must be judged by the highest principles of justice, honesty, and fairness. The honest trader should not hesitate to take the same profit which he would gladly accord his fellow trader in a similar transaction. While this sort of wealth is not identical with individually earned income when business dealings are conducted on a large scale, at the same time, such honestly accumulated wealth endows its possessor with a considerable equity as regards a voice in its subsequent distribution.
132:5.18 “4. No mortal who knows God and seeks to do the divine will can stoop to engage in the oppressions of wealth. No noble man will strive to accumulate riches and amass wealth-power by the enslavement or unfair exploitation of his brothers in the flesh. Riches are a moral curse and a spiritual stigma when they are derived from the sweat of oppressed mortal man. All such wealth should be restored to those who have thus been robbed or to their children and their children’s children. An enduring civilization cannot be built upon the practice of defrauding the laborer of his hire.
132:5.19 “5. Honest wealth is entitled to interest. As long as men borrow and lend, that which is fair interest may be collected provided the capital lent was legitimate wealth. First cleanse your capital before you lay claim to the interest. Do not become so small and grasping that you would stoop to the practice of usury. Never permit yourself to be so selfish as to employ money-power to gain unfair advantage over your struggling fellows. Yield not to the temptation to take usury from your brother in financial distress.
132:5.20 “6. If you chance to secure wealth by flights of genius, if your riches are derived from the rewards of inventive endowment, do not lay claim to an unfair portion of such rewards. The genius owes something to both his ancestors and his progeny; likewise is he under obligation to the race, nation, and circumstances of his inventive discoveries; he should also remember that it was as man among men that he labored and wrought out his inventions. It would be equally unjust to deprive the genius of all his increment of wealth. And it will ever be impossible for men to establish rules and regulations applicable equally to all these problems of the equitable distribution of wealth. You must first recognize man as your brother, and if you honestly desire to do by him as you would have him do by you, the commonplace dictates of justice, honesty, and fairness will guide you in the just and impartial settlement of every recurring problem of economic rewards and social justice.
132:5.21 “7. Except for the just and legitimate fees earned in administration, no man should lay personal claim to that wealth which time and chance may cause to fall into his hands. Accidental riches should be regarded somewhat in the light of a trust to be expended for the benefit of one’s social or economic group. The possessors of such wealth should be accorded the major voice in the determination of the wise and effective distribution of such unearned resources. Civilized man will not always look upon all that he controls as his personal and private possession.
132:5.22 “8. If any portion of your fortune has been knowingly derived from fraud; if aught of your wealth has been accumulated by dishonest practices or unfair methods; if your riches are the product of unjust dealings with your fellows, make haste to restore all these ill-gotten gains to the rightful owners. Make full amends and thus cleanse your fortune of all dishonest riches.
132:5.23 “9. The trusteeship of the wealth of one person for the benefit of others is a solemn and sacred responsibility. Do not hazard or jeopardize such a trust. Take for yourself of any trust only that which all honest men would allow.
132:5.24 “10. That part of your fortune which represents the earnings of your own mental and physical efforts—if your work has been done in fairness and equity—is truly your own. No man can gainsay your right to hold and use such wealth as you may see fit provided your exercise of this right does not work harm upon your fellows.”
132:5.25 When Jesus had finished counseling him, this wealthy Roman arose from his couch and, in saying farewell for the night, delivered himself of this promise: “My good friend, I perceive you are a man of great wisdom and goodness, and tomorrow I will begin the administration of all my wealth in accordance with your counsel.”
Caino
bucksplasher
New member
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Christ is the light...........
Christ is the light...........
From a pure metaphysical perspective,...since 'God' is the One Universal reality, the One Supreme Being Omnipresent,...there is no 'way' to 'God',...since there is nowhere where He is not
But to touch on your points above,....'God' includes all realms, information, 'streams', 'traditions', 'cultures', 'gurus', 'teachers', 'ministers' because they could not exist independent of Him. No need for 'delusions', since reality is prior to such misperceptions entertained or worshipped by the ego. Nothing wrong with being part of a faith-tradition or community, as long as we differentiate between what is 'real' and 'unreal', and recognize speculation or intellectual concepts for being just that. In any case, the Spirit is Life itself and pure awareness our clarity of Light. - all forms that arise in the ocean of consciousness have their place (to be utilized, enjoyed or transcended).
Yes, only in one gospel claimed to be penned by John. I see it more pertinent to see by what illustration Jesus is making his statement as being a 'way-shower', embodying the true light or 'Christ' of God in his soul and by his way of living, which calls us to follow his example...as the way. Remember he also said we are the light of the world. We are the sons of God. We are the branches that must bear his fruit. To further the theme in Paul's metaphors...we are his body NOW in the earth. We are Christ on earth. We are the temple.
My theology includes all, and fits perfect using Jesus the Christ as the apex of the revelation of 'God' to man and in man. Christ holds, as the light that lightens all men, the anointing-light, the divine seed, the archetypal Son, thru which we assume divine sonship.
pj
Christ is the light...........
From a pure metaphysical perspective,...since 'God' is the One Universal reality, the One Supreme Being Omnipresent,...there is no 'way' to 'God',...since there is nowhere where He is not
But to touch on your points above,....'God' includes all realms, information, 'streams', 'traditions', 'cultures', 'gurus', 'teachers', 'ministers' because they could not exist independent of Him. No need for 'delusions', since reality is prior to such misperceptions entertained or worshipped by the ego. Nothing wrong with being part of a faith-tradition or community, as long as we differentiate between what is 'real' and 'unreal', and recognize speculation or intellectual concepts for being just that. In any case, the Spirit is Life itself and pure awareness our clarity of Light. - all forms that arise in the ocean of consciousness have their place (to be utilized, enjoyed or transcended).
Yes, only in one gospel claimed to be penned by John. I see it more pertinent to see by what illustration Jesus is making his statement as being a 'way-shower', embodying the true light or 'Christ' of God in his soul and by his way of living, which calls us to follow his example...as the way. Remember he also said we are the light of the world. We are the sons of God. We are the branches that must bear his fruit. To further the theme in Paul's metaphors...we are his body NOW in the earth. We are Christ on earth. We are the temple.
My theology includes all, and fits perfect using Jesus the Christ as the apex of the revelation of 'God' to man and in man. Christ holds, as the light that lightens all men, the anointing-light, the divine seed, the archetypal Son, thru which we assume divine sonship.
pj
bucksplasher
New member
From a pure metaphysical perspective,...since 'God' is the One Universal reality, the One Supreme Being Omnipresent,...there is no 'way' to 'God',...since there is nowhere where He is not
But to touch on your points above,....'God' includes all realms, information, 'streams', 'traditions', 'cultures', 'gurus', 'teachers', 'ministers' because they could not exist independent of Him. No need for 'delusions', since reality is prior to such misperceptions entertained or worshipped by the ego. Nothing wrong with being part of a faith-tradition or community, as long as we differentiate between what is 'real' and 'unreal', and recognize speculation or intellectual concepts for being just that. In any case, the Spirit is Life itself and pure awareness our clarity of Light. - all forms that arise in the ocean of consciousness have their place (to be utilized, enjoyed or transcended).
Yes, only in one gospel claimed to be penned by John. I see it more pertinent to see by what illustration Jesus is making his statement as being a 'way-shower', embodying the true light or 'Christ' of God in his soul and by his way of living, which calls us to follow his example...as the way. Remember he also said we are the light of the world. We are the sons of God. We are the branches that must bear his fruit. To further the theme in Paul's metaphors...we are his body NOW in the earth. We are Christ on earth. We are the temple.
My theology includes all, and fits perfect using Jesus the Christ as the apex of the revelation of 'God' to man and in man. Christ holds, as the light that lightens all men, the anointing-light, the divine seed, the archetypal Son, thru which we assume divine sonship.
pj
If I can use my "retro" enlightenment I'll interpret that as a no.
tWINs
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
All That Is........
All That Is........
Yes, no, maybe so ?
Thats the wonderful thing about creative intelligence and discernment.
'Creative dialogue' is my adventure.
Consider the omnipresence of Spirit.
Can anything exist independent of...or outside 'God'?
Blessings!
pj
All That Is........
Yes, no, maybe so ?
Thats the wonderful thing about creative intelligence and discernment.
'Creative dialogue' is my adventure.
Consider the omnipresence of Spirit.
Can anything exist independent of...or outside 'God'?
Blessings!
pj
bucksplasher
New member
Two no in a row. Can we go four three. tWINs
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
I dont see this as a game. Knowledge is a serious matter.
Will keep the portal open for discussion on the UB and related subjects. Thank you. If you have any more questions/comments, feel free.
UB Fellowship
pj
bucksplasher
New member
Truth is even more serious. tWINs
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
viewpoints............
viewpoints............
That depends on how one defines 'truth' and how such is comprehended. In a relative context, given our planets different cultures and traditions, truth is central to human experience, however such is portrayed thru religious symbols, myths and metaphor. The UB has tons to say about truth. - there is 'absolute' truth...and 'relative' truth....our interpretations being more of the latter since whenever our perception/knowledge is 'limited'. Absolute truth is in the realm of pure reality, that which is before, behind and beyond any conception whatsoever. It is the reality that is prior to and transcending all thought and form ('Being' itself, or 'pure awareness'). - when we mortals in this present form in space/time 'relate' concepts, things or ideas (most all subjects)...that relating must within its own 'context' be 'relative'.
How do you come to know what is true? And can you trust your method of 'epistemology'?
pj
viewpoints............
That depends on how one defines 'truth' and how such is comprehended. In a relative context, given our planets different cultures and traditions, truth is central to human experience, however such is portrayed thru religious symbols, myths and metaphor. The UB has tons to say about truth. - there is 'absolute' truth...and 'relative' truth....our interpretations being more of the latter since whenever our perception/knowledge is 'limited'. Absolute truth is in the realm of pure reality, that which is before, behind and beyond any conception whatsoever. It is the reality that is prior to and transcending all thought and form ('Being' itself, or 'pure awareness'). - when we mortals in this present form in space/time 'relate' concepts, things or ideas (most all subjects)...that relating must within its own 'context' be 'relative'.
How do you come to know what is true? And can you trust your method of 'epistemology'?
pj
No, i didn't say that at all, i answered the specific questions you asked about concerning certain contemporary moral and political issues of the day. The UB greatly expands insight.
If you want to know more about the book that you disagree with then maybe you should read it first. This is beginning to look like you are just being argumentative rather then sincere.
Caino
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freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Applying oneself to study...........
Applying oneself to study...........
Pretty simple gesture for anyone really interested to see what the Papers teach, since its value can only be appreciated by a sincere study.
Conversative christians have access to the Meredith J. Sprunger archive, an valuable collection of articles addressing the UB's contribution and assimilation within the context of traditional Christianity. Highly recommended.
~*~*~
Angels:
As touching current UB connections, I've referenced the UB's teaching on angels and their various orders in the 'Angels' thread. One significant contribution of the Papers is the detailed knowledge of a vast heirarchy of cosmic beings and angels. Links below -
Ministering Spirits in the Central Universe (Paper 26)
A synopsis - Personalities of the Grand Universe (Paper 30)
Papers 16 thru 31 cover the full spectrum of living beings and their service in the universe.
pj
Applying oneself to study...........
Pretty simple gesture for anyone really interested to see what the Papers teach, since its value can only be appreciated by a sincere study.
Conversative christians have access to the Meredith J. Sprunger archive, an valuable collection of articles addressing the UB's contribution and assimilation within the context of traditional Christianity. Highly recommended.
~*~*~
Angels:
As touching current UB connections, I've referenced the UB's teaching on angels and their various orders in the 'Angels' thread. One significant contribution of the Papers is the detailed knowledge of a vast heirarchy of cosmic beings and angels. Links below -
Ministering Spirits in the Central Universe (Paper 26)
A synopsis - Personalities of the Grand Universe (Paper 30)
Papers 16 thru 31 cover the full spectrum of living beings and their service in the universe.
pj
What happened to the material body of Jesus?
THE MATERIAL BODY OF JESUS
At ten minutes past three o’clock, as the resurrected Jesus fraternized with the assembled morontia personalities from the seven mansion worlds of Satania, the chief of archangels—the angels of the resurrection—approached Gabriel and asked for the mortal body of Jesus. Said the chief of the archangels: “We may not participate in the morontia resurrection of the bestowal experience of Michael our sovereign, but we would have his mortal remains put in our custody for immediate dissolution. We do not propose to employ our technique of dematerialization; we merely wish to invoke the process of accelerated time. It is enough that we have seen the Sovereign live and die on Urantia; the hosts of heaven would be spared the memory of enduring the sight of the slow decay of the human form of the Creator and Upholder of a universe. In the name of the celestial intelligences of all Nebadon, I ask for a mandate giving me the custody of the mortal body of Jesus of Nazareth and empowering us to proceed with its immediate dissolution.”
http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1441#U189_2_0
Caino
THE MATERIAL BODY OF JESUS
At ten minutes past three o’clock, as the resurrected Jesus fraternized with the assembled morontia personalities from the seven mansion worlds of Satania, the chief of archangels—the angels of the resurrection—approached Gabriel and asked for the mortal body of Jesus. Said the chief of the archangels: “We may not participate in the morontia resurrection of the bestowal experience of Michael our sovereign, but we would have his mortal remains put in our custody for immediate dissolution. We do not propose to employ our technique of dematerialization; we merely wish to invoke the process of accelerated time. It is enough that we have seen the Sovereign live and die on Urantia; the hosts of heaven would be spared the memory of enduring the sight of the slow decay of the human form of the Creator and Upholder of a universe. In the name of the celestial intelligences of all Nebadon, I ask for a mandate giving me the custody of the mortal body of Jesus of Nazareth and empowering us to proceed with its immediate dissolution.”
http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1441#U189_2_0
Caino
Why did Pilate fear the Jews?
PONTIUS PILATE
185:1.1 If Pontius Pilate had not been a reasonably good governor of the minor provinces, Tiberius would hardly have suffered him to remain as procurator of Judea for ten years. Although he was a fairly good administrator, he was a moral coward. He was not a big enough man to comprehend the nature of his task as governor of the Jews. He failed to grasp the fact that these Hebrews had a real religion, a faith for which they were willing to die, and that millions upon millions of them, scattered here and there throughout the empire, looked to Jerusalem as the shrine of their faith and held the Sanhedrin in respect as the highest tribunal on earth.
185:1.2 Pilate did not love the Jews, and this deep-seated hatred early began to manifest itself. Of all the Roman provinces, none was more difficult to govern than Judea. Pilate never really understood the problems involved in the management of the Jews and, therefore, very early in his experience as governor, made a series of almost fatal and well-nigh suicidal blunders. And it was these blunders that gave the Jews such power over him. When they wanted to influence his decisions, all they had to do was to threaten an uprising, and Pilate would speedily capitulate. And this apparent vacillation, or lack of moral courage, of the procurator was chiefly due to the memory of a number of controversies he had had with the Jews and because in each instance they had worsted him. The Jews knew that Pilate was afraid of them, that he feared for his position before Tiberius, and they employed this knowledge to the great disadvantage of the governor on numerous occasions.
185:1.3 Pilate’s disfavor with the Jews came about as a result of a number of unfortunate encounters. First, he failed to take seriously their deep-seated prejudice against all images as symbols of idol worship. Therefore he permitted his soldiers to enter Jerusalem without removing the images of Caesar from their banners, as had been the practice of the Roman soldiers under his predecessor. A large deputation of Jews waited upon Pilate for five days, imploring him to have these images removed from the military standards. He flatly refused to grant their petition and threatened them with instant death. Pilate, himself being a skeptic, did not understand that men of strong religious feelings will not hesitate to die for their religious convictions; and therefore was he dismayed when these Jews drew themselves up defiantly before his palace, bowed their faces to the ground, and sent word that they were ready to die. Pilate then realized that he had made a threat which he was unwilling to carry out. He surrendered, ordered the images removed from the standards of his soldiers in Jerusalem, and found himself from that day on to a large extent subject to the whims of the Jewish leaders, who had in this way discovered his weakness in making threats which he feared to execute.
185:1.4 Pilate subsequently determined to regain this lost prestige and accordingly had the shields of the emperor, such as were commonly used in Caesar worship, put up on the walls of Herod’s palace in Jerusalem. When the Jews protested, he was adamant. When he refused to listen to their protests, they promptly appealed to Rome and the emperor as promptly ordered the offending shields removed. And then was Pilate held in even lower esteem than before.
185:1.5 Another thing which brought him into great disfavor with the Jews was that he dared to take money from the temple treasury to pay for the construction of a new aqueduct to provide increased water supply for the millions of visitors to Jerusalem at the times of the great religious feasts. The Jews held that only the Sanhedrin could disburse the temple funds, and they never ceased to inveigh against Pilate for this presumptuous ruling. No less than a score of riots and much bloodshed resulted from this decision. The last of these serious outbreaks had to do with the slaughter of a large company of Galileans even as they worshiped at the altar.
185:1.6 It is significant that, while this vacillating Roman ruler sacrificed Jesus to his fear of the Jews and to safeguard his personal position, he finally was deposed as a result of the needless slaughter of Samaritans in connection with the pretensions of a false Messiah who led troops to Mount Gerizim, where he claimed the temple vessels were buried; and fierce riots broke out when he failed to reveal the hiding place of the sacred vessels, as he had promised. As a result of this episode, the legatus of Syria ordered Pilate to Rome. Tiberius died while Pilate was on the way to Rome, and he was not reappointed as procurator of Judea. He never fully recovered from the regretful condemnation of having consented to the crucifixion of Jesus. Finding no favor in the eyes of the new emperor, he retired to the province of Lausanne, where he subsequently committed suicide.
185:1.7 Claudia Procula, Pilate’s wife, had heard much of Jesus through the word of her maid-in-waiting, who was a Phoenician believer in the gospel of the kingdom. After the death of Pilate, Claudia became prominently identified with the spread of the good news.
185:1.8 And all this explains much that transpired on this tragic Friday forenoon. It is easy to understand why the Jews presumed to dictate to Pilate—to get him up at six o’clock to try Jesus—and also why they did not hesitate to threaten to charge him with treason before the emperor if he dared to refuse their demands for Jesus’ death.
185:1.9 A worthy Roman governor who had not become disadvantageously involved with the rulers of the Jews would never have permitted these bloodthirsty religious fanatics to bring about the death of a man whom he himself had declared to be innocent of their false charges and without fault. Rome made a great blunder, a far-reaching error in earthly affairs, when she sent the second-rate Pilate to govern Palestine. Tiberius had better have sent to the Jews the best provincial administrator in the empire." UB
Caino
PONTIUS PILATE
185:1.1 If Pontius Pilate had not been a reasonably good governor of the minor provinces, Tiberius would hardly have suffered him to remain as procurator of Judea for ten years. Although he was a fairly good administrator, he was a moral coward. He was not a big enough man to comprehend the nature of his task as governor of the Jews. He failed to grasp the fact that these Hebrews had a real religion, a faith for which they were willing to die, and that millions upon millions of them, scattered here and there throughout the empire, looked to Jerusalem as the shrine of their faith and held the Sanhedrin in respect as the highest tribunal on earth.
185:1.2 Pilate did not love the Jews, and this deep-seated hatred early began to manifest itself. Of all the Roman provinces, none was more difficult to govern than Judea. Pilate never really understood the problems involved in the management of the Jews and, therefore, very early in his experience as governor, made a series of almost fatal and well-nigh suicidal blunders. And it was these blunders that gave the Jews such power over him. When they wanted to influence his decisions, all they had to do was to threaten an uprising, and Pilate would speedily capitulate. And this apparent vacillation, or lack of moral courage, of the procurator was chiefly due to the memory of a number of controversies he had had with the Jews and because in each instance they had worsted him. The Jews knew that Pilate was afraid of them, that he feared for his position before Tiberius, and they employed this knowledge to the great disadvantage of the governor on numerous occasions.
185:1.3 Pilate’s disfavor with the Jews came about as a result of a number of unfortunate encounters. First, he failed to take seriously their deep-seated prejudice against all images as symbols of idol worship. Therefore he permitted his soldiers to enter Jerusalem without removing the images of Caesar from their banners, as had been the practice of the Roman soldiers under his predecessor. A large deputation of Jews waited upon Pilate for five days, imploring him to have these images removed from the military standards. He flatly refused to grant their petition and threatened them with instant death. Pilate, himself being a skeptic, did not understand that men of strong religious feelings will not hesitate to die for their religious convictions; and therefore was he dismayed when these Jews drew themselves up defiantly before his palace, bowed their faces to the ground, and sent word that they were ready to die. Pilate then realized that he had made a threat which he was unwilling to carry out. He surrendered, ordered the images removed from the standards of his soldiers in Jerusalem, and found himself from that day on to a large extent subject to the whims of the Jewish leaders, who had in this way discovered his weakness in making threats which he feared to execute.
185:1.4 Pilate subsequently determined to regain this lost prestige and accordingly had the shields of the emperor, such as were commonly used in Caesar worship, put up on the walls of Herod’s palace in Jerusalem. When the Jews protested, he was adamant. When he refused to listen to their protests, they promptly appealed to Rome and the emperor as promptly ordered the offending shields removed. And then was Pilate held in even lower esteem than before.
185:1.5 Another thing which brought him into great disfavor with the Jews was that he dared to take money from the temple treasury to pay for the construction of a new aqueduct to provide increased water supply for the millions of visitors to Jerusalem at the times of the great religious feasts. The Jews held that only the Sanhedrin could disburse the temple funds, and they never ceased to inveigh against Pilate for this presumptuous ruling. No less than a score of riots and much bloodshed resulted from this decision. The last of these serious outbreaks had to do with the slaughter of a large company of Galileans even as they worshiped at the altar.
185:1.6 It is significant that, while this vacillating Roman ruler sacrificed Jesus to his fear of the Jews and to safeguard his personal position, he finally was deposed as a result of the needless slaughter of Samaritans in connection with the pretensions of a false Messiah who led troops to Mount Gerizim, where he claimed the temple vessels were buried; and fierce riots broke out when he failed to reveal the hiding place of the sacred vessels, as he had promised. As a result of this episode, the legatus of Syria ordered Pilate to Rome. Tiberius died while Pilate was on the way to Rome, and he was not reappointed as procurator of Judea. He never fully recovered from the regretful condemnation of having consented to the crucifixion of Jesus. Finding no favor in the eyes of the new emperor, he retired to the province of Lausanne, where he subsequently committed suicide.
185:1.7 Claudia Procula, Pilate’s wife, had heard much of Jesus through the word of her maid-in-waiting, who was a Phoenician believer in the gospel of the kingdom. After the death of Pilate, Claudia became prominently identified with the spread of the good news.
185:1.8 And all this explains much that transpired on this tragic Friday forenoon. It is easy to understand why the Jews presumed to dictate to Pilate—to get him up at six o’clock to try Jesus—and also why they did not hesitate to threaten to charge him with treason before the emperor if he dared to refuse their demands for Jesus’ death.
185:1.9 A worthy Roman governor who had not become disadvantageously involved with the rulers of the Jews would never have permitted these bloodthirsty religious fanatics to bring about the death of a man whom he himself had declared to be innocent of their false charges and without fault. Rome made a great blunder, a far-reaching error in earthly affairs, when she sent the second-rate Pilate to govern Palestine. Tiberius had better have sent to the Jews the best provincial administrator in the empire." UB
Caino
The Urantia is b.s., somebody's obsessive fantasy rewrite of the existing biblical fables. To see how Urantia writers are earth-bound creatures like the rest of us one only has to note their reliance on earth-bound celestial observation of the seven "planetary rulers" of our ancient men's understanding of an earth-centered cosmos, this limitation being projected out to create Urantia seven universes, etc.
Urantia writers took Abrahamic Jewish and Christian myths as real history which historical discovery routinely overturns as these biblical myths fall, e.g. the Exodus mythology, the David and Solomon Greater Israel mythology that even Israeli archeologists now say are national fictions. This revealing includes the Story of Jesus mythology that now is being traced back to Alexandrian Jews writing in the 2nd Century about the mysterious Christ the Magician cult figure whose legend seems to have arisen somewhere between 100 BC and 100 AD.
Never trust books that are full of ton's of verbiage about spiritual matters. That's a first clue they don't know what they're talking about but are trying very hard to snow those ignorant of history and Abrahamic religious borrowings. Such as...
"1,973 BC. His coming was unspectacular; his materialization was not witnessed by human eyes.... his mission was embodied in the simple statement which he made to this shepherd, "I am Melchizedek, priest of El Elyon, the Most High, the one and only God."
When one discovers how scribes and priests of Judah remade pagan deities into Hebrews this Melchizedek nonsense might end as it should. Please research the Vedic connection to the Abraham mythology where Brahma became Abraham and Brahma's consort, Sarasvati, became Sarah, and Ghaggar-Hakra became Hagar. As for Melchizedek, you might want to check the derivation of that name because where Hebrews say "Melech" means "King" linguistic derivation says "Melech" is derivative of "Moloch", and indeed the god of Abraham demands a very Moloch type of burnt firstborn son sacrifice. Moloch was a god of war and again we see Melchizedek honoring Abraham's war victory with a eucharist meal. The mythology built around Melchizedek shows how easy it is to remake ancient religious mythologies into something politically expedient for cultural control through religion.
Urantia writers took Abrahamic Jewish and Christian myths as real history which historical discovery routinely overturns as these biblical myths fall, e.g. the Exodus mythology, the David and Solomon Greater Israel mythology that even Israeli archeologists now say are national fictions. This revealing includes the Story of Jesus mythology that now is being traced back to Alexandrian Jews writing in the 2nd Century about the mysterious Christ the Magician cult figure whose legend seems to have arisen somewhere between 100 BC and 100 AD.
Never trust books that are full of ton's of verbiage about spiritual matters. That's a first clue they don't know what they're talking about but are trying very hard to snow those ignorant of history and Abrahamic religious borrowings. Such as...
"1,973 BC. His coming was unspectacular; his materialization was not witnessed by human eyes.... his mission was embodied in the simple statement which he made to this shepherd, "I am Melchizedek, priest of El Elyon, the Most High, the one and only God."
When one discovers how scribes and priests of Judah remade pagan deities into Hebrews this Melchizedek nonsense might end as it should. Please research the Vedic connection to the Abraham mythology where Brahma became Abraham and Brahma's consort, Sarasvati, became Sarah, and Ghaggar-Hakra became Hagar. As for Melchizedek, you might want to check the derivation of that name because where Hebrews say "Melech" means "King" linguistic derivation says "Melech" is derivative of "Moloch", and indeed the god of Abraham demands a very Moloch type of burnt firstborn son sacrifice. Moloch was a god of war and again we see Melchizedek honoring Abraham's war victory with a eucharist meal. The mythology built around Melchizedek shows how easy it is to remake ancient religious mythologies into something politically expedient for cultural control through religion.
Tell us another one. As if..sorry, but the Bible stories are religious propaganda and as such only religious believers in that propaganda will buy it. Others not so brainwashed research the religious history of the Near East and see the truth that forms the basis of my opinion-the truth of Jewish/Christian borrowing of pagan religious concepts, retelling them, and then claiming them as original to Judeo-Christianity.
I also note the lack of reasoned argument against my observations, i.e. the use of slander of me which is the mark of those who have no legitimate defense of their beliefs and opinions.
I also note the lack of reasoned argument against my observations, i.e. the use of slander of me which is the mark of those who have no legitimate defense of their beliefs and opinions.
Parading your ignorance is not seeking truth
Parading your ignorance is not seeking truth
It's the opposite. Please go to your nearest university religious studies class where you will get out from under your cult consciousness and learn some truth about Christian beliefs. For example do you know why God Most High was called that? Do you know that EL was the Canaanite name for the planet Saturn and that astrology is firmly embedded within the Gospels? Is this in the Urantia? Do even Bible book idolators know of this? No. And this is why these ancient ideas keep recycling without understanding because modern people fail to realize they were pertaining to astronomical events given anthropological mythologies, e.g. the birthday of the sun at the Winter's Solstice.
Parading your ignorance is not seeking truth
It's the opposite. Please go to your nearest university religious studies class where you will get out from under your cult consciousness and learn some truth about Christian beliefs. For example do you know why God Most High was called that? Do you know that EL was the Canaanite name for the planet Saturn and that astrology is firmly embedded within the Gospels? Is this in the Urantia? Do even Bible book idolators know of this? No. And this is why these ancient ideas keep recycling without understanding because modern people fail to realize they were pertaining to astronomical events given anthropological mythologies, e.g. the birthday of the sun at the Winter's Solstice.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Indeed, men knew more about the astrological symbolism and phenomena in ancient days: which is why the three wise men knew that a Son would be born who would be The King of kings and Lord of lords, and followed His Star to Bethlehem. That doesn't preclude His Truth, but rather confirms it.
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