yes, it's from paper 103, "The Reality of Religious Experience"
http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1355
Caino
The Late Great Urantia Revelation
- Thread starter Caino
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yes, it's from paper 103, "The Reality of Religious Experience"
http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1355
Caino
"In the physical universe we may see the divine beauty, in the intellectual world we may discern eternal truth, but the goodness of God is found only in the spiritual world of personal religious experience. In its true essence, religion is a faith-trust in the goodness of God. God could be great and absolute, somehow even intelligent and personal, in philosophy, but in religion God must also be moral; he must be good. Man might fear a great God, but he trusts and loves only a good God. This goodness of God is a part of the personality of God, and its full revelation appears only in the personal religious experience of the believing sons of God."
Only an immoral God would create a place of torture for his weak, finite, and unaware children called "hell." Only an immoral God would work in partnership with an evil Satan to trick his own children into rebellion, then punish them in his house of torture! Only an immoral God would withhold forgiveness until one almost equal to himself, his own innocent Son, was to be tortured and killed in the cruelest way.
Those are the Gods of backward, primitive men. Those Gods only linger on in the imagination of fear ridden individuals who lack the courage to stand up against such cowardly doctrines!
Caino
Aimiel
Well-known member
That is a lie. God created hell for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
That is a lie. God is Holy. He doesn't commit sin, doesn't partner with sinners and certainly isn't in cahoots with the devil.
2 Corinthians 6:14
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
1 John 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
That is a lie. Only a fool would presume to judge God and say that He is immoral because He has done something that the fool is incapable of understanding. You cannot even SEE His Kingdom, and yet you want to call God: "Immoral." That's simply preposterous.
God isn't plural. He is One. The false gods that you choose to imagine or search for simply don't exist. Jesus is The One True God, and one day you will bend your knee in front of Him. I only hope that it is before you die, so that you don't have to find out that hell is real the hard way. :angrymob:
Just like your father, the devil, you've chosen to twist God's Words, which is what Satan has been doing since the beginning. In Eden, he said, "Hath God said...?" and he has been using his lies to fool the simple for almost 7,000 years.
I think that you and people like you desire such an unjust, hateful and punishing God because you yourself are unjust, hateful and punishing. The God of evangelical, Pagan Christianity, appeals to you because it's a God created in >your< own image. Your attempts to control and bully as you were molested an bullied by sick preachers fails to persuade those who live in truth and in the true spirit of a Loving God. You "need" for God to have a house of horrors because that's what you yourself would do if you could.
But such a God only exists in your frustrated, fruitless and hate filled mind.
Caino
textman
New member
On How Things Were Simpler in the Old Days
On How Things Were Simpler in the Old Days
+
"The beginning of wisdom is this: Get wisdom, and whatever you get, get insight." -- Proverbs 4:7 / RSV
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You can actually see this for yourself, people - IF you able to watch him on cbc! :chuckle:
Do you love it as much as we do? Do you believe it as much as we do?! Here's how much we love it:
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Surely the Lord God does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets / NASB
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Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets. / TNIV
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Indeed, the Sovereign Lord never does anything until he reveals his plans to his servants the prophets / NLT
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The fact is, God, the Master, does nothing without first telling his prophets the whole story. / MSG
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Certainly, the Almighty Lord doesn’t do anything unless he first reveals his secret to his servants the prophets / GW
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"the whole story" already! Now that is some awesome stuff there, people. Some very potent awesome stuff even. We can easily see why you like it so much. But do you love it, Aimiel? Do you believe it, Aimiel? Tell it to the Lord! Tell us you love it and believe it, Aimiel ...
tell us, tell us, tell us, [repeat forevermore] :jump:
x
On How Things Were Simpler in the Old Days
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"The beginning of wisdom is this: Get wisdom, and whatever you get, get insight." -- Proverbs 4:7 / RSV
tx: We agree entirely and completely: the-god doesn't change ... *but* the unique-son does, as do *all* his followers! :shocked:
Those who follow the "Way Everlasting" are in truth following the 'Way of Love & Reason' (according to the third-gospel (ie. John)) who is the aforementioned unique-son, being also the same divine-Logos who was/is the Anointed-One (JC).
Yes? So this is the brone-age-prophet's way of saying that freelight is always and everywhere wrong about everything? Seriously, Aimiel? methinks that thou dost exagerate somewhat. No one can be wrong ALL the time, eh? Not even the evil-one himself is wrong *all* the time ...
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You can actually see this for yourself, people - IF you able to watch him on cbc! :chuckle:
So the UP comes from hell? Again wethinks thou dost exagerate somewhat. In fact, more than somewhat. We rather suspect that some few believers may actually have become interested in the Faith thanks to the ET-grace that flows from these odd texts. Have you actually read the part on the life of Jesus, Aimiel? I have, and it is most interesting in many ways. Better even than most "official" (scholarly) and fictional depictions/interpretations, I'd say. So why should you object if some believers find the Lord this way? Hell indeed! Are you a bronze-age defender-of-the-Faith then, Aimiel? It certainly does *reduce* the complexity of annoying and difficult problems (and hard to deal with people). Now there's a lot to be said for simplifying the Faith (eg. for newbies), but mature believers must *always* understand that the truth, like the world itself, is anything but simple:
Dude! This is one of our most-favorite Tanakh verses ever! We love it to pieces even!
Do you love it as much as we do? Do you believe it as much as we do?! Here's how much we love it:
.
Surely the Lord God does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets / NASB
.
Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets. / TNIV
.
Indeed, the Sovereign Lord never does anything until he reveals his plans to his servants the prophets / NLT
.
The fact is, God, the Master, does nothing without first telling his prophets the whole story. / MSG
.
Certainly, the Almighty Lord doesn’t do anything unless he first reveals his secret to his servants the prophets / GW
.
"the whole story" already! Now that is some awesome stuff there, people. Some very potent awesome stuff even. We can easily see why you like it so much. But do you love it, Aimiel? Do you believe it, Aimiel? Tell it to the Lord! Tell us you love it and believe it, Aimiel ...
tell us, tell us, tell us, [repeat forevermore] :jump:
x
Aimiel
Well-known member
If God were hateful or unjust He would simply punish sinners the very first time they sin. No one would be alive. He is loving, because He gave His Only Begotten Son to pay for your sins. He is just because if you don't believe in Jesus, you have no part in Him or in Heaven.
God isn't created. He is God, whether you believe He is or not. He is God, and doesn't change, simply because you don't like His version of Truth. He isn't found in the Urantia Papers or in the Koran or in the Book of Mormon. He is ONLY found in The Bible. He is capable of bringing anyone who is lost into His Presence, but ONLY through Christ Jesus.
I've never been bullied or sat under any sick preachers. I've learned what I know through The Holy Scriptures. The ONLY preachers I know are the holy men of old who prophesied what they were given by The Holy Ghost.
God doesn't have a house of horrors. He has a place of torment where those who've sinned and refused to repent get what they so richly deserve. God said that we will dance in the blood of our enemies. I simply believe His Word. He doesn't lie.
Just because you can't deal with a just God Who is capable of making good judgments and giving the wicked what they deserve doesn't preclude Him from doing just that. He is capable of being God, whether you ascribe that power to Him or not. He has revealed what the end of people like you who don't repent is: eternal torment in flames. He has yet to be proven wrong, even though the Urantia Book or any other false authority might claim otherwise. God is still the one and only One True God. Your god which the Urantia Book proclaims has nothing to do with Him. It is a false god and you're bowing down to him, even though he is only an imaginary god created by a demon.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
truth stands on its own.....
truth stands on its own.....
:thumb:
Our 'God' is often the reflection of our own imagination, but the heart of Real God is truth, love, goodness, beauty, justice, mercy.
pj
truth stands on its own.....
:thumb:
Our 'God' is often the reflection of our own imagination, but the heart of Real God is truth, love, goodness, beauty, justice, mercy.
pj
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
reality is all that is real
reality is all that is real
The 'myth' of hell has been exposed on previous threads, - furthermore we make our own 'heaven' or 'hell' by our own karmic conditioning, no matter what dimension we live in (here or hereafter, as if a 'hereafter' even exists, since all that is....is the eternal "now"), as long as we are subject to conditioning. Real love, pure freedom, spiritual liberty.....now thats an ideal, and furthermore a 'reality' worth pursuing since it already exists as what always is at the heart of all that is....the 'presence' of 'Real God', which is absolute reality itself.
Namaste
pj
reality is all that is real
The 'myth' of hell has been exposed on previous threads, - furthermore we make our own 'heaven' or 'hell' by our own karmic conditioning, no matter what dimension we live in (here or hereafter, as if a 'hereafter' even exists, since all that is....is the eternal "now"), as long as we are subject to conditioning. Real love, pure freedom, spiritual liberty.....now thats an ideal, and furthermore a 'reality' worth pursuing since it already exists as what always is at the heart of all that is....the 'presence' of 'Real God', which is absolute reality itself.
Namaste
pj
Aimiel
Well-known member
You are right, your god is the reflection of your own imagination. No, the real God is Love, and He is Holy. But: the fruit of our spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. We have these fruit because The Love of God is shed abroad in our hearts. That's how we know you're not Christian: you don't love Christians. You love everything that is NOT Godly. Sad, but true.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Yes, you've dismissed every single fundamental understanding found in The Holy Bible.
No, you make your own life more hellish or heavenly by your choices. You also decide your own eternity, by what you do with Jesus' Blood.
:blabla:
The 'myth' of hell has been exposed on previous threads, - furthermore we make our own 'heaven' or 'hell' by our own karmic conditioning, no matter what dimension we live in (here or hereafter, as if a 'hereafter' even exists, since all that is....is the eternal "now"), as long as we are subject to conditioning. Real love, pure freedom, spiritual liberty.....now thats an ideal, and furthermore a 'reality' worth pursuing since it already exists as what always is at the heart of all that is....the 'presence' of 'Real God', which is absolute reality itself.
Namaste
pj
True that Freelight! I think the preachers preach hell because they don't have anything better to say! Many preachers are from the long line of Shamans, some are simply self deceived while others know full well what they are doing. And soooooo many preachers live double lives, committing all sorts of sin then taking it out on the congregation on Sunday! LOL!!!
"While they may have practiced deception in minor matters, the great majority of the shamans believed in the fact of their spirit possession. Women who were able to throw themselves into a trance or a cataleptic fit became powerful shamanesses; later, such women became prophets and spirit mediums. Their cataleptic trances usually involved alleged communications with the ghosts of the dead. Many female shamans were also professional dancers."
"But not all shamans were self-deceived; many were shrewd and able tricksters. As the profession developed, a novice was required to serve an apprenticeship of ten years of hardship and self-denial to qualify as a medicine man. The shamans developed a professional mode of dress and affected a mysterious conduct. They frequently employed drugs to induce certain physical states which would impress and mystify the tribesmen. Sleight-of-hand feats were regarded as supernatural by the common folk, and ventriloquism was first used by shrewd priests. Many of the olden shamans unwittingly stumbled onto hypnotism; others induced autohypnosis by prolonged staring at their navels."
Caino
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
busting 'hell' wide open........
busting 'hell' wide open........
Now now Caino, be nice
As I've shared,...applying the more 'peculiar' parts of the UB as your quote above to the situation is verging on 'comical', but I'll try to maintain my professional composure. Could the 'shaman' correlation be a bit extreme? I mean, these are modern dignified clergymen.
Here I'll add commentary from the spiritual truths and philosophy within the Hindu tradition, - this being from a synopsis made of the world-religions....gathered by Ganid (found here). For those interested in these commentaries, they hilight the common religious truths given by the missionaries of Melchizedek unto the ends of the earth, yet nuanced by slight differences of style and custom within each culture -
131:4.7 "God is our Father, the earth our mother, and the universe our birthplace. Without God the soul is a prisoner; to know God releases the soul. By meditation on God, by union with him, there comes deliverance from the illusions of evil and ultimate salvation from all material fetters. When man shall roll up space as a piece of leather, then will come the end of evil because man has found God. O God, save us from the threefold ruin of hell—lust, wrath, and avarice! O soul, gird yourself for the spirit struggle of immortality! When the end of mortal life comes, hesitate not to forsake this body for a more fit and beautiful form and to awake in the realms of the Supreme and Immortal, where there is no fear, sorrow, hunger, thirst, or death. To know God is to cut the cords of death. The God-knowing soul rises in the universe like the cream appears on top of the milk. We worship God, the all-worker, the Great Soul, who is ever seated in the heart of his creatures. And they who know that God is enthroned in the human heart are destined to become like him—immortal. Evil must be left behind in this world, but virtue follows the soul to heaven.
The above refers to 'hell' more in the common traditional meaning applied to it, generalized as 'negative', that which ruins the soul. The biblical use of the english term 'hell', is complicated by translation issues, since the terms 'hades, sheol, gehenna, tartarus' have varying meanings and designations, add onto that the 'lake of fire' metaphor, and we have a con-fusion of sorts. More on the 'hell' doctrine -
Are those that never heard the Gospel doomed to go to hell?
The Problem of Hell
My previous calling of 'hell' as being a 'myth' holds, in that so many false and imaginary notions are invested in the term. Research sorts it out.
pj
busting 'hell' wide open........
Now now Caino, be nice
As I've shared,...applying the more 'peculiar' parts of the UB as your quote above to the situation is verging on 'comical', but I'll try to maintain my professional composure. Could the 'shaman' correlation be a bit extreme? I mean, these are modern dignified clergymen.
Here I'll add commentary from the spiritual truths and philosophy within the Hindu tradition, - this being from a synopsis made of the world-religions....gathered by Ganid (found here). For those interested in these commentaries, they hilight the common religious truths given by the missionaries of Melchizedek unto the ends of the earth, yet nuanced by slight differences of style and custom within each culture -
131:4.7 "God is our Father, the earth our mother, and the universe our birthplace. Without God the soul is a prisoner; to know God releases the soul. By meditation on God, by union with him, there comes deliverance from the illusions of evil and ultimate salvation from all material fetters. When man shall roll up space as a piece of leather, then will come the end of evil because man has found God. O God, save us from the threefold ruin of hell—lust, wrath, and avarice! O soul, gird yourself for the spirit struggle of immortality! When the end of mortal life comes, hesitate not to forsake this body for a more fit and beautiful form and to awake in the realms of the Supreme and Immortal, where there is no fear, sorrow, hunger, thirst, or death. To know God is to cut the cords of death. The God-knowing soul rises in the universe like the cream appears on top of the milk. We worship God, the all-worker, the Great Soul, who is ever seated in the heart of his creatures. And they who know that God is enthroned in the human heart are destined to become like him—immortal. Evil must be left behind in this world, but virtue follows the soul to heaven.
The above refers to 'hell' more in the common traditional meaning applied to it, generalized as 'negative', that which ruins the soul. The biblical use of the english term 'hell', is complicated by translation issues, since the terms 'hades, sheol, gehenna, tartarus' have varying meanings and designations, add onto that the 'lake of fire' metaphor, and we have a con-fusion of sorts. More on the 'hell' doctrine -
Are those that never heard the Gospel doomed to go to hell?
The Problem of Hell
My previous calling of 'hell' as being a 'myth' holds, in that so many false and imaginary notions are invested in the term. Research sorts it out.
pj
Now now Caino, be nice
As I've shared,...applying the more 'peculiar' parts of the UB as your quote above to the situation is verging on 'comical', but I'll try to maintain my professional composure. Could the 'shaman' correlation be a bit extreme? I mean, these are modern dignified clergymen.
Here I'll add commentary from the spiritual truths and philosophy within the Hindu tradition, - this being from a synopsis made of the world-religions....gathered by Ganid (found here). For those interested in these commentaries, they hilight the common religious truths given by the missionaries of Melchizedek unto the ends of the earth, yet nuanced by slight differences of style and custom within each culture -
131:4.7 "God is our Father, the earth our mother, and the universe our birthplace. Without God the soul is a prisoner; to know God releases the soul. By meditation on God, by union with him, there comes deliverance from the illusions of evil and ultimate salvation from all material fetters. When man shall roll up space as a piece of leather, then will come the end of evil because man has found God. O God, save us from the threefold ruin of hell—lust, wrath, and avarice! O soul, gird yourself for the spirit struggle of immortality! When the end of mortal life comes, hesitate not to forsake this body for a more fit and beautiful form and to awake in the realms of the Supreme and Immortal, where there is no fear, sorrow, hunger, thirst, or death. To know God is to cut the cords of death. The God-knowing soul rises in the universe like the cream appears on top of the milk. We worship God, the all-worker, the Great Soul, who is ever seated in the heart of his creatures. And they who know that God is enthroned in the human heart are destined to become like him—immortal. Evil must be left behind in this world, but virtue follows the soul to heaven.
The above refers to 'hell' more in the common traditional meaning applied to it, generalized as 'negative', that which ruins the soul. The biblical use of the english term 'hell', is complicated by translation issues, since the terms 'hades, sheol, gehenna, tartarus' have varying meanings and designations, add onto that the 'lake of fire' metaphor, and we have a con-fusion of sorts. More on the 'hell' doctrine -
Are those that never heard the Gospel doomed to go to hell?
The Problem of Hell
My previous calling of 'hell' as being a 'myth' holds, in that so many false and imaginary notions are invested in the term. Research sorts it out.
pj
More on the evolution of the God concept and "Hell". I once had a preacher/handy man working on my dad’s house. He cut his finger, while cleaning the wound he took the opportunity to give us a sermon on why there is "no remission of sin without the shedding of blood." He explained that "hell" is 3,500 ft down in the earth. He sincerely believed that.
"Hill worship followed stone worship, and the first hills to be venerated were large stone formations. It presently became the custom to believe that the gods inhabited the mountains, so that high elevations of land were worshiped for this additional reason. As time passed, certain mountains were associated with certain gods and therefore became holy. The ignorant and superstitious aborigines believed that caves led to the underworld, with its evil spirits and demons, in contrast with the mountains, which were identified with the later evolving concepts of good spirits and deities."
The Hebrews still had fragments of worshiping idols like snakes and rocks. The belief that God wrote the Bible is from this form of fetish making.
Gen 31:34
"Now Rachel had taken the household gods and put them inside her camel's saddle and was sitting on them. Laban searched through everything in the tent but found nothing."
Caino
July 6th, 2010, 07:31 AM
Do you realize that in one month you and Caino will have been arguing and fighting for 2 years? In some states that's long enough for a commonlaw marriage.
Do you realize that in one month you and Caino will have been arguing and fighting for 2 years? In some states that's long enough for a commonlaw marriage.
LOL! I typically keep Aimiel on the ignore list and let him off to keep the thread "live", it serves a purpose.
Caino
In the beginning was the word......
"In this original transaction the theoretical I AM achieved the realization of personality by becoming the Eternal Father of the Original Son simultaneously with becoming the Eternal Source of the Isle of Paradise. Coexistent with the differentiation of the Son from the Father, and in the presence of Paradise, there appeared the person of the Infinite Spirit and the central universe of Havona. With the appearance of coexistent personal Deity, the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit, the Father escaped, as a personality, from otherwise inevitable diffusion throughout the potential of Total Deity. Thenceforth it is only in Trinity association with his two Deity equals that the Father fills all Deity potential, while increasingly experiential Deity is being actualized on the divinity levels of Supremacy, Ultimacy, and Absoluteness."
Caino
"In this original transaction the theoretical I AM achieved the realization of personality by becoming the Eternal Father of the Original Son simultaneously with becoming the Eternal Source of the Isle of Paradise. Coexistent with the differentiation of the Son from the Father, and in the presence of Paradise, there appeared the person of the Infinite Spirit and the central universe of Havona. With the appearance of coexistent personal Deity, the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit, the Father escaped, as a personality, from otherwise inevitable diffusion throughout the potential of Total Deity. Thenceforth it is only in Trinity association with his two Deity equals that the Father fills all Deity potential, while increasingly experiential Deity is being actualized on the divinity levels of Supremacy, Ultimacy, and Absoluteness."
Caino
Aimiel
Well-known member
Bullocks. Jesus is not only ALL Man, He's also ALL God. The Father is also ALL God. The Holy Spirit is also ALL God. They are distinct 'portrayals' of The Same Being. God is ONE!
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
open to learn
open to learn
It serves a purpose, but the real fruit of such exchange remains to be seen. Service is rendered for those interested in the Urantia Book, to really discover its contribution and value. Any are free to accept or dismiss such upon a thorough investigation of the content and context of the papers, however some here come only with assumptions, preconceived biases, presumptions, knee-jerk reactions, apologetic posturing, etc. Much could be said for the general benefit of learning, but not all are interested in expanding consciousness or seeing things beyond their own narrow concepts of theology.
These transmissions at least serve as a springboard for many subjects which correlate with all world religions, science and philosophy, and most importantly the epic journey of the mortal soul in its evolutionary journey Godward, ultimately to the First Source and Center, the Universal Father himself who is the original, absolute and ultimate reality, The Source.
The Papers present the Father as being the head of the 'Paradise Trinity', so that the theology is certainly 'trinitarian' in essence, but its concept of the Trinity and where Jesus fits into the scheme of the 'Godhead' differs somewhat from traditional orthodox Christology, but this is explored and described elsewhere.
Nevertheless, its contributions on the subject of 'Religion', the evolutionary ascent and divine destiny of man stands unparalleled. However this groups of celestials reveal that much info. not concerning the ascension-program of progressing mortals is revealed in the papers, which shows there is much beyond the knowledge of man in the cosmos that does not necessarily concern him, but what is shared is sufficient for man, as he is given only what the natural course of evolution grants him, what is earned, and what comes by way of divine dispensation as 'revelation' when man is ready to receive such information. In this way the UB is the 'Fifth Epochal Revelation' given to the planet, Jesus ministry was the 4th.
A synopsis of all 5 epochal revelations are reviewed Here (covering outreach principles exemplified in each epoch)
pj
open to learn
It serves a purpose, but the real fruit of such exchange remains to be seen. Service is rendered for those interested in the Urantia Book, to really discover its contribution and value. Any are free to accept or dismiss such upon a thorough investigation of the content and context of the papers, however some here come only with assumptions, preconceived biases, presumptions, knee-jerk reactions, apologetic posturing, etc. Much could be said for the general benefit of learning, but not all are interested in expanding consciousness or seeing things beyond their own narrow concepts of theology.
These transmissions at least serve as a springboard for many subjects which correlate with all world religions, science and philosophy, and most importantly the epic journey of the mortal soul in its evolutionary journey Godward, ultimately to the First Source and Center, the Universal Father himself who is the original, absolute and ultimate reality, The Source.
The Papers present the Father as being the head of the 'Paradise Trinity', so that the theology is certainly 'trinitarian' in essence, but its concept of the Trinity and where Jesus fits into the scheme of the 'Godhead' differs somewhat from traditional orthodox Christology, but this is explored and described elsewhere.
Nevertheless, its contributions on the subject of 'Religion', the evolutionary ascent and divine destiny of man stands unparalleled. However this groups of celestials reveal that much info. not concerning the ascension-program of progressing mortals is revealed in the papers, which shows there is much beyond the knowledge of man in the cosmos that does not necessarily concern him, but what is shared is sufficient for man, as he is given only what the natural course of evolution grants him, what is earned, and what comes by way of divine dispensation as 'revelation' when man is ready to receive such information. In this way the UB is the 'Fifth Epochal Revelation' given to the planet, Jesus ministry was the 4th.
A synopsis of all 5 epochal revelations are reviewed Here (covering outreach principles exemplified in each epoch)
pj
- Status