The Late Great Urantia Revelation

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Lon

Well-known member
None of the kids are worshiping Disney, they know cartoons and movies are fiction, in the logical world we all know that the flood story is not true. You are forced to believe it, not because it makes sense, but because it's in the Bible.
What!!?? Virtually all people on all continents have a flood story. To discount all of them would be the actual illogical thing to do.

If the flood story wasn't in the Bible and you never heard of it, but the story was recently discovered in a cave, you would naturally see how ridiculous the claims are.
:nono: I'd be interested in their story, but this isn't man's story, it is God's story. You and every other cult and atheist, do not seem to grasp that. The book itself claims divinity. Sorry, tough for you, but you can't change facts to suit your preconceived whims. "In Search Of" actually went looking for Noah's Ark. Imagine! that... :think: Who is really thinking and who turned off their brains because it didn't fit their notions? :think: One of us is CLEARLY wrong. Hint: One of us belongs to a group of people that make up the vast majority in the U.S. The other doesn't.

But you are apparently an intelligent adult who has to defend it because you have been convinced that God wrote the Bible.
Yeah, I wasn't really impressed when agnostics and atheists questioned. I'm still not. For instance, "If" Pangea existed, I'm pretty sure there was a global flood when it shifted and pretty sure no one survived UNLESS protected by God in an ark (one theory or speculation). I don't know how big your god is, but if he can't even do that, I don't want to follow him anyway (and I don't

You confuse faith in God with faith in the doctrine of inspiration.
Right. Matthew 4:4? No?
I've never believed holy men in the church are divine.
Where in the Bible do you think you read that? None of them claim they were god. Are you talking about the Divinity of Jesus?

Rather, the Bible purports not to be written by Moses, but rather he took dictation. Joseph Smith claimed to translate. There is no translating by Moses. Rather it was dictation and the Bible says so. Where you guys come up with oddities otherwise is beyond me. It is 'like you've never actually read the thing.' :dizzy:
 

Lon

Well-known member
btw, the cartoon is from answers in Genesis, a bible-believing creation-based ministry that believes the story of Noah's Ark :doh:
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Blood sacrifice is Pagan, indeed the Jews taught it, practiced it and resented Jesus for teaching otherwise.

Jesus spent his entire life on the cross of human experience, death is the final act for man unless he translates. It was the will of the Father that the creator son experience both the life and the death that man experiences while subject to the will of God.

The cross, being the most spectacular of the miracles of Jesus' life, became the central theme in the religion about Jesus. They largely forgot the religion of Jesus.

To the contrary, I face the cross head on, its deeply moving to me on many levels. Its tragic that his people rejected him and were un-chosen, left desolate. Its sad that men are so cruel and stupid to one who was their God, it's astonishing that our creator Loves us with such a love that he came down from his glory on high and was willing to endure such a difficult life and horrible death only to come back and prove that there is life after the death of the flesh. The cross did a lot, but it was never about changing a changeless God. In the original gospel God was already forgiving, Jesus forgave people.


Hell flames don't exist, that's another invention of primitive, vengeful man who thinks God is like the ISIS God. There is either life or death.

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
True according to unfamiliar spirits/celestials/guides.
Lie according to the Holy spirit.

Thats your 'opinion',...I would do more research into the history and evidence for a great flood, or Noah's ark. You will find no definitive statement by me or confirmation of any theory of the great flood or Noah's ark. I have made none. Its still a matter of further research for me.

I choose the big Spirit over your tiny little mini dumb spirits.

Your ad-hominem comments and petty pot-shots are continually noted.

The UB gives a most wonderful presentation of the divine hierarchy of Spirits, angels and sons of God in its papers, something you perhaps would be futher enlightened by learning ;)

Freelight supports you. Good luck with that

Another misconstrued assumption. See my first paragraph above. I have NOT fully researched or come to a conclusion on that matter, so make no assumptions about it at this time,...got it?

In the meantime, a son of God would best be serving the world by being the 'light' of the world, as the Lord Jesus teaches. Let us therefore share the light, and be the light :)
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
137:1.6 Jesus was asleep when they reached his abode, but they awakened him, saying: “How is it that, while we who have so long lived with you are searching in the hills for you, you prefer others before us and choose Andrew and Simon as your first associates in the new kingdom?” Jesus answered them, “Be calm in your hearts and ask yourselves, `who directed that you should search for the Son of Man when he was about his Father's business?'” After they had recited the details of their long search in the hills, Jesus further instructed them: “You should learn to search for the secret of the new kingdom in your hearts and not in the hills. That which you sought was already present in your souls. You are indeed my brethren—you needed not to be received by me—already were you of the kingdom, and you should be of good cheer, making ready also to go with us tomorrow into Galilee.” John then made bold to ask, “But, Master, will James and I be associates with you in the new kingdom, even as Andrew and Simon?” And Jesus, laying a hand on the shoulder of each of them, said: “My brethren, you were already with me in the spirit of the kingdom, even before these others made request to be received. You, my brethren, have no need to make request for entrance into the kingdom; you have been with me in the kingdom from the beginning. Before men, others may take precedence over you, but in my heart did I also number you in the councils of the kingdom, even before you thought to make this request of me. And even so might you have been first before men had you not been absent engaged in a well-intentioned but self-appointed task of seeking for one who was not lost. In the coming kingdom, be not mindful of those things which foster your anxiety but rather at all times concern yourselves only with doing the will of the Father who is in heaven.”

Why do you add to the word of God?

This is not just talking about the book of Revelation--

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Why do add to the word of God?

This is not just talking about the book of Revelation--

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

That passage IS just talking about the book of Revelation, not the whole bible, or books men included to make up the Bible,..that depending on what 'canon' you accept.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
That passage IS just talking about the book of Revelation, not the whole bible, or books men included to make up the Bible,..that depending on what 'canon' you accept.

Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

The Bible is a complete book which has its languages in a numbering system.

Even Judaism, which you follow, knows that of the OT.

However you know better, from where?

LA
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

The Bible is a complete book which has its languages in a numbering system.

Even Judaism, which you follow, knows that of the OT.

However you know better, from where?

LA

No need to split hairs :)

But your passage above is a warning ONLY for that compendium of writings. Each command is specific to that immediate and concerned book of commandments or revelations being spoken of. Context is key ;)
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
No need to split hairs :)

But your passage above is a warning ONLY for that compendium of writings. Each command is specific to that immediate and concerned book of commandments or revelations being spoken of. Context is key ;)

Excuses excuses,

It still means one ought not add or take away from Gods word as the UB does.

LA
 

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
The Bible books say conflicting things about the same events. You have been taught and convinced that God wrote the Bible, therefore it is you who claims God wrote conflicting, untrue things and your explanations for the error is inadequate. You even stoop so low as to say God puts lies into men. You have the problem, not me.

I believe that men wrote and rewrote the Bible based on their interpretation of events that occurred. I believe that the inconsistencies are mans fault not Gods. I accept that men are fallible, I accept that the Jewish authorities who rejected Jesus were wrong!!!!!

The Urantia Book does NOT claim to be perfect, it does NOT claim to be written by God. It claims that God is infinitely perfect and man is imperfect. Even high administrators such as Lucifer could and do fall into error.
I was able see the proofs, so...
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=823&Itemid=10

A book which appears frequently in the hands of mystical, New Age, and spiritual seekers is THE URANTIA BOOK. Easily recognizable as a massive blue $34 hardback, THE URANTIA BOOK consists of 2097 pages of channeled material. Though first published in 1955, the bulk of its material was actually channeled in the early 1930s. (Its publishers and supporters dislike speaking of THE URANTIA BOOK in terms of "channeling" or "spirit mediumship," since this draws attention to its anonymous human author, who wished his identity to be kept a secret.)

After nearly forty years of mystery, the author's veil of anonymity has finally been removed. The story behind the channeler's "secret identity" is actually quite fascinating. But first, some background information about the book.

There are currently more than 235,000 copies of THE URANTIA BOOK in print in two languages, English and French. Translations in Spanish and Finnish are forthcoming later in 1992, as well as a computerized version for electronic searches. Independent and "unauthorized" URANTIA BOOK readers have published a massive CONCORDEX and other study materials.

THE URANTIA BOOK contains 196 separate messages (plus a Foreword) from alleged disembodied beings in "higher" universes. Their discourses resemble what one might expect from religious alien intelligences, complete with galactic councils and interstellar colonization projects by angelic hierarchies. The "messengers" identify themselves with names like Divine Counselor, Melchizedek, Life Carrier, Midwayer Commission, Brilliant Evening Star, and Perfector of Wisdom. The planet Earth (which they refer to as "Urantia") is said to be down near the bottom of a cosmic scale of galaxies, universes, and superuniverses, all inhabited by billions of physical, etheric, and angelic beings.

The book is divided into four sections, describing an array of universes, "correcting" our concepts of God and Spirit, giving the "real" evolutionary history of earth and its religions, and offering a detailed revision of the life and words of Jesus Christ. THE URANTIA BOOK begins with copious quotations from the New Testament, particularly the writings of John. Early on, we learn that the creedal doctrine of the Trinity is false -- there are really three Trinities and seven Triunities, with different members in each. We also find that Jesus Christ is merely the seventh incarnation ("bestowal") of Michael of Nebadon (our "local universe"), the 611,121st Creator Son sent out by the Paradise Trinity. There are many others like him on other worlds, all "Michaels" and "only-begotten Sons" in their own right.

Unlike most channeled writings, THE URANTIA BOOK rejects the teachings of reincarnation and astrology. However, in line with other mediumistic revelations, it is dead-set against traditional Christian doctrines, including the inerrancy of Scripture, simple Trinitarianism, the Fall of man, original sin, the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ, faith and repentance for salvation, the resurrection of the flesh, and eternal punishment.

THE URANTIA BOOK records Jesus telling his disciple Nathaniel, "The Scriptures are faulty and altogether human in origin" (page 1767); and while "the Scriptures contain much that is true, . . . these writings also contain much that is misrepresentative of the Father in heaven" (1768). The Jesus of THE URANTIA BOOK flatly denounces "this erroneous idea of the absolute perfection of the Scripture record and the infallibility of its teachings" (1768).

Likewise, the book says, "There has been no 'fall of man.' The history of the human race is one of progressive evolution . . . " (846). God's covenant with Israel is referred to as "the chosen-people delusion" (1005). And the atonement of Jesus is emphatically denied:

"The barbarous idea of appeasing an angry God, of propitiating an offended Lord, of winning the favor of Deity through sacrifices and penance and even by the shedding of blood, represents a religion wholly puerile and primitive. . . .It is an affront to God to believe, hold, or teach that innocent blood must be shed in order to win his favor or to divert the fictitious divine wrath" (60).

Toward the end of the book we read, "All this concept of atonement and sacrificial salvation is rooted and grounded in selfishness. . . . Salvation should be taken for granted by those who believe in the fatherhood of God" (2017).

The real gospel of Jesus, according to THE URANTIA BOOK, is simply "the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of men" (2042, 2059), i.e., that "all men are the sons of God" already (1585). No act of reconciliation is needed, we simply open our eyes to this fact. Yet even as early as Pentecost, the book laments, the religion OF Jesus became twisted into a religion ABOUT Jesus (2066, 2091) and thus the original Gospel was lost.

Indeed, with one mighty swipe, THE URANTIA BOOK accomplishes what few other cultic writings have expressed in one breath, namely, the rejection of every significant doctrine of Christianity and Judaism:

"The cardinal religious ideas of incantation, inspiration, revelation, propitiation, repentance, atonement, intercession, sacrifice, prayer, confession, worship, survival after death, sacrament, ritual, ransom, salvation, redemption, convenant, uncleanness, purification, prophecy, original sin -- they all go back to the early times of primordial ghost fear" (1005).

The surrounding context makes it plain that these relics of an earlier age are untrue and should be dispensed with by enlightened humanity. How did this all come about?

Ironically, it was a Seventh-day Adventist minister and physician who was ultimately responsible for the publication of the Urantia papers. Dr. William S. Sadler, a psychiatrist and professor at the University of Chicago and teacher of pastoral counseling at McCormick Theological Seminary, had spent over a decade debunking and refuting spiritualism, even assisting magician Harry Houdini in this task. His better-known works on this subject include THE TRUTH ABOUT SPIRITUALISM (1923) and THE MIND AT MISCHIEF: TRICKS OF THE SUBCONSCIOUS MIND (1929). However, researcher Steve Cannon tells about something that eventually turned Sadler around:

In the appendix of THE MIND AT MISCHIEF Sadler recounts a story of one investigation into the psychic realm that he could not debunk. From the summer of 1911 until the time of his writing in 1929 he had a subject under observation who would go into a deep sleep out of which he could not be awakened. Sadler wrote: "This man is utterly unconscious, wholly oblivious to what takes place, and, unless told about it subsequently, never knows that he has been used as a sort of clearing house for the coming and going of alleged extra-planetary personalities" (MIND, 383). Of the communications themselves, "I can only say that I have found in these years of observation that all the information imparted through this source has proved to be consistent within itself. . . . Its philosophy is consistent. It is essentially Christian and is, on the whole, entirely harmonious with the known scientific facts and truths of this age" (MIND, 384). Sadler wanted to say more on the subject, but the person under investigation would not give his permission to do so.[1]

Beginning in 1923, Dr. Sadler invited a group of friends, informally known as The Forum, to examine these intelligences, which were now rapidly becoming more numerous. While the channeler slept, the spirits freely answered questions in a manner not unlike that of Edgar Cayce, the famed "sleeping prophet." Sadler and his cohorts compiled 4000 questions they wanted the spirits to answer. A few weeks later, the channeler handed Dr. Sadler a sheaf of 472 pages, answering every question which had been put to him/them. The channeler's wife told Sadler that the material had been written in a single evening. By 1935, the last of the messages was delivered, and the entities asked Dr. Sadler, by now a true believer and an ex-Adventist, that the work be published.[2] Twenty years later THE URANTIA BOOK appeared in print.

The identity of the channeler was kept secret for many years by the Urantia Foundation. In fact, the board of directors took a pledge of secrecy not to reveal the human author or its means of transmission. However, in 1991 Martin Gardner identified the channeler as Wilfred Custer Kellogg, son of Rev. Charles Leonidis Sobeski Kellogg, a Seventh-day Adventist minister from Vermont. Wilfred was a shirttail relative of W. K. Kellogg, founder of the Kellogg's Cornflake Company, and also happened to be William Sadler's brother-in-law (the men had married two sisters).

Wilfred moved to Illinois when he married, and he and his wife lived for a time with Dr. and Mrs. Sadler. He was one of the founding members of the Urantia Foundation, and his home was half a block from the present headquarters of the Foundation in Chicago. He died in 1956.

The Adventist background of both Kellogg and Sadler does explain a few things. For example, it's a point of Adventist doctrine that Jesus is really Michael the Archangel.[3] Martin Gardner pointed out some other interesting parallels with Adventism, notably how the name of an Adventist friend of Kellogg, G. W. Amadon, appears as an important figure of the Urantia papers. Gardner's articles were published in the SKEPTICAL INQUIRER, Spring 1991, with significant corrections in the Fall 1991 issue. The Urantia Foundation officially has "no comment" on this matter.
 

Caino

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Banned
:doh:
What!!?? Virtually all people on all continents have a flood story. To discount all of them would be the actual illogical thing to do.


:nono: I'd be interested in their story, but this isn't man's story, it is God's story. You and every other cult and atheist, do not seem to grasp that. The book itself claims divinity. Sorry, tough for you, but you can't change facts to suit your preconceived whims. "In Search Of" actually went looking for Noah's Ark. Imagine! that... :think: Who is really thinking and who turned off their brains because it didn't fit their notions? :think: One of us is CLEARLY wrong. Hint: One of us belongs to a group of people that make up the vast majority in the U.S. The other doesn't.


Yeah, I wasn't really impressed when agnostics and atheists questioned. I'm still not. For instance, "If" Pangea existed, I'm pretty sure there was a global flood when it shifted and pretty sure no one survived UNLESS protected by God in an ark (one theory or speculation). I don't know how big your god is, but if he can't even do that, I don't want to follow him anyway (and I don't

Right. Matthew 4:4? No?

Where in the Bible do you think you read that? None of them claim they were god. Are you talking about the Divinity of Jesus?

Rather, the Bible purports not to be written by Moses, but rather he took dictation. Joseph Smith claimed to translate. There is no translating by Moses. Rather it was dictation and the Bible says so. Where you guys come up with oddities otherwise is beyond me. It is 'like you've never actually read the thing.' :dizzy:

:doh: Cultures wouldn't have flood stories if the Bible flood story was true for the simple fact that they would have been drown! Then there is the strange claim that those same cultures came from Noahs kids, who remember a flood, but don't remember being related to great granddad Noah!!!!

The simple truth is, all theses ancient cultures (that did not come from the Jews ancestors) have flood stories because there have been, and continue to be, large scale floods. Japan just experienced a catastrophic tsunami. Not long ago they would have attributed that to their deity. Today we understand it.

My point about divine church men is that the false doctrine of inspiration has men writing perfect scripture with no bias, no human influence. The Christian church sure the heck has suffered from human imperfection!
 
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Caino

BANNED
Banned
http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=823&Itemid=10

A book which appears frequently in the hands of mystical, New Age, and spiritual seekers is THE URANTIA BOOK. Easily recognizable as a massive blue $34 hardback, THE URANTIA BOOK consists of 2097 pages of channeled material. Though first published in 1955, the bulk of its material was actually channeled in the early 1930s. (Its publishers and supporters dislike speaking of THE URANTIA BOOK in terms of "channeling" or "spirit mediumship," since this draws attention to its anonymous human author, who wished his identity to be kept a secret.)

After nearly forty years of mystery, the author's veil of anonymity has finally been removed. The story behind the channeler's "secret identity" is actually quite fascinating. But first, some background information about the book.

There are currently more than 235,000 copies of THE URANTIA BOOK in print in two languages, English and French. Translations in Spanish and Finnish are forthcoming later in 1992, as well as a computerized version for electronic searches. Independent and "unauthorized" URANTIA BOOK readers have published a massive CONCORDEX and other study materials.

THE URANTIA BOOK contains 196 separate messages (plus a Foreword) from alleged disembodied beings in "higher" universes. Their discourses resemble what one might expect from religious alien intelligences, complete with galactic councils and interstellar colonization projects by angelic hierarchies. The "messengers" identify themselves with names like Divine Counselor, Melchizedek, Life Carrier, Midwayer Commission, Brilliant Evening Star, and Perfector of Wisdom. The planet Earth (which they refer to as "Urantia") is said to be down near the bottom of a cosmic scale of galaxies, universes, and superuniverses, all inhabited by billions of physical, etheric, and angelic beings.

The book is divided into four sections, describing an array of universes, "correcting" our concepts of God and Spirit, giving the "real" evolutionary history of earth and its religions, and offering a detailed revision of the life and words of Jesus Christ. THE URANTIA BOOK begins with copious quotations from the New Testament, particularly the writings of John. Early on, we learn that the creedal doctrine of the Trinity is false -- there are really three Trinities and seven Triunities, with different members in each. We also find that Jesus Christ is merely the seventh incarnation ("bestowal") of Michael of Nebadon (our "local universe"), the 611,121st Creator Son sent out by the Paradise Trinity. There are many others like him on other worlds, all "Michaels" and "only-begotten Sons" in their own right.

Unlike most channeled writings, THE URANTIA BOOK rejects the teachings of reincarnation and astrology. However, in line with other mediumistic revelations, it is dead-set against traditional Christian doctrines, including the inerrancy of Scripture, simple Trinitarianism, the Fall of man, original sin, the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ, faith and repentance for salvation, the resurrection of the flesh, and eternal punishment.

THE URANTIA BOOK records Jesus telling his disciple Nathaniel, "The Scriptures are faulty and altogether human in origin" (page 1767); and while "the Scriptures contain much that is true, . . . these writings also contain much that is misrepresentative of the Father in heaven" (1768). The Jesus of THE URANTIA BOOK flatly denounces "this erroneous idea of the absolute perfection of the Scripture record and the infallibility of its teachings" (1768).

Likewise, the book says, "There has been no 'fall of man.' The history of the human race is one of progressive evolution . . . " (846). God's covenant with Israel is referred to as "the chosen-people delusion" (1005). And the atonement of Jesus is emphatically denied:

"The barbarous idea of appeasing an angry God, of propitiating an offended Lord, of winning the favor of Deity through sacrifices and penance and even by the shedding of blood, represents a religion wholly puerile and primitive. . . .It is an affront to God to believe, hold, or teach that innocent blood must be shed in order to win his favor or to divert the fictitious divine wrath" (60).

Toward the end of the book we read, "All this concept of atonement and sacrificial salvation is rooted and grounded in selfishness. . . . Salvation should be taken for granted by those who believe in the fatherhood of God" (2017).

The real gospel of Jesus, according to THE URANTIA BOOK, is simply "the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of men" (2042, 2059), i.e., that "all men are the sons of God" already (1585). No act of reconciliation is needed, we simply open our eyes to this fact. Yet even as early as Pentecost, the book laments, the religion OF Jesus became twisted into a religion ABOUT Jesus (2066, 2091) and thus the original Gospel was lost.

Indeed, with one mighty swipe, THE URANTIA BOOK accomplishes what few other cultic writings have expressed in one breath, namely, the rejection of every significant doctrine of Christianity and Judaism:

"The cardinal religious ideas of incantation, inspiration, revelation, propitiation, repentance, atonement, intercession, sacrifice, prayer, confession, worship, survival after death, sacrament, ritual, ransom, salvation, redemption, convenant, uncleanness, purification, prophecy, original sin -- they all go back to the early times of primordial ghost fear" (1005).

The surrounding context makes it plain that these relics of an earlier age are untrue and should be dispensed with by enlightened humanity. How did this all come about?

Ironically, it was a Seventh-day Adventist minister and physician who was ultimately responsible for the publication of the Urantia papers. Dr. William S. Sadler, a psychiatrist and professor at the University of Chicago and teacher of pastoral counseling at McCormick Theological Seminary, had spent over a decade debunking and refuting spiritualism, even assisting magician Harry Houdini in this task. His better-known works on this subject include THE TRUTH ABOUT SPIRITUALISM (1923) and THE MIND AT MISCHIEF: TRICKS OF THE SUBCONSCIOUS MIND (1929). However, researcher Steve Cannon tells about something that eventually turned Sadler around:

In the appendix of THE MIND AT MISCHIEF Sadler recounts a story of one investigation into the psychic realm that he could not debunk. From the summer of 1911 until the time of his writing in 1929 he had a subject under observation who would go into a deep sleep out of which he could not be awakened. Sadler wrote: "This man is utterly unconscious, wholly oblivious to what takes place, and, unless told about it subsequently, never knows that he has been used as a sort of clearing house for the coming and going of alleged extra-planetary personalities" (MIND, 383). Of the communications themselves, "I can only say that I have found in these years of observation that all the information imparted through this source has proved to be consistent within itself. . . . Its philosophy is consistent. It is essentially Christian and is, on the whole, entirely harmonious with the known scientific facts and truths of this age" (MIND, 384). Sadler wanted to say more on the subject, but the person under investigation would not give his permission to do so.[1]

Beginning in 1923, Dr. Sadler invited a group of friends, informally known as The Forum, to examine these intelligences, which were now rapidly becoming more numerous. While the channeler slept, the spirits freely answered questions in a manner not unlike that of Edgar Cayce, the famed "sleeping prophet." Sadler and his cohorts compiled 4000 questions they wanted the spirits to answer. A few weeks later, the channeler handed Dr. Sadler a sheaf of 472 pages, answering every question which had been put to him/them. The channeler's wife told Sadler that the material had been written in a single evening. By 1935, the last of the messages was delivered, and the entities asked Dr. Sadler, by now a true believer and an ex-Adventist, that the work be published.[2] Twenty years later THE URANTIA BOOK appeared in print.

The identity of the channeler was kept secret for many years by the Urantia Foundation. In fact, the board of directors took a pledge of secrecy not to reveal the human author or its means of transmission. However, in 1991 Martin Gardner identified the channeler as Wilfred Custer Kellogg, son of Rev. Charles Leonidis Sobeski Kellogg, a Seventh-day Adventist minister from Vermont. Wilfred was a shirttail relative of W. K. Kellogg, founder of the Kellogg's Cornflake Company, and also happened to be William Sadler's brother-in-law (the men had married two sisters).

Wilfred moved to Illinois when he married, and he and his wife lived for a time with Dr. and Mrs. Sadler. He was one of the founding members of the Urantia Foundation, and his home was half a block from the present headquarters of the Foundation in Chicago. He died in 1956.

The Adventist background of both Kellogg and Sadler does explain a few things. For example, it's a point of Adventist doctrine that Jesus is really Michael the Archangel.[3] Martin Gardner pointed out some other interesting parallels with Adventism, notably how the name of an Adventist friend of Kellogg, G. W. Amadon, appears as an important figure of the Urantia papers. Gardner's articles were published in the SKEPTICAL INQUIRER, Spring 1991, with significant corrections in the Fall 1991 issue. The Urantia Foundation officially has "no comment" on this matter.

And Jesus was a carpenter from Nazareth. I've researched and studied a great deal about the history of the Urantia revelation. None of that is new to me. Some of it isn't accurate.
 
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Caino

BANNED
Banned
Why do you add to the word of God?

This is not just talking about the book of Revelation--

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Deuteronomy 4:2 “You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."

Oops! A great deal was added after that. Jesus added to the bible.

The book of revelation was redacted by apocalyptic writers after John wrote it. The prohibition to adding to the end was a common legal type of statement in an age when there was no copy-rite law.

But if Jesus retuned tomorrow and had more to say, sadly you would have to explain to him that his word can't be added to the cannon because of the BOR.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Excuses excuses,

It still means one ought not add or take away from Gods word as the UB does.

LA

Not exuses, but facts....each prohibition not to add pertains only to that particular body of commandments, instructions or revelation within the immediate context concerned :)

Also because there is progressive revelation,...there is no reason to assume any 'canon' of religious writing is 'closed' or 'final'.

The UB presents itself as the 5th epochal revelation to the planet, it naturally then will add to the previous dispensations. All newer revelations naturally are ADDING something, and/or in that additional information,...correcting wrong conceptions or misconstrued beliefs that got distorted earlier.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Deuteronomy 4:2 “You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."

Oops! A great deal was added after that. Jesus added to the bible.

The book of revelation was redacted by apocalyptic writers after John wrote it. The prohibition to adding to the end was a common legal type of statement in an age when there was no copy-rite law.

But if Jesus retuned tomorrow and had more to say, sadly you would have to explain to him that his word can't be added to the cannon because of the BOR.

:thumb:

Yep,.....the prohibitions only pertain to their specific context. Since the Bible is but a collection of various texts by different authors with different agendas, you cant really find a verse that pertains to the whole of scripture, except maybe in the later pseudographical Pastorals,...which by that time a 'canon' of both Jewish scriptures and compiled NT books were starting to be recognized as a 'canon', although some was still in process of being finalized as a 'canon'.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Spoiler
http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=823&Itemid=10

A book which appears frequently in the hands of mystical, New Age, and spiritual seekers is THE URANTIA BOOK. Easily recognizable as a massive blue $34 hardback, THE URANTIA BOOK consists of 2097 pages of channeled material. Though first published in 1955, the bulk of its material was actually channeled in the early 1930s. (Its publishers and supporters dislike speaking of THE URANTIA BOOK in terms of "channeling" or "spirit mediumship," since this draws attention to its anonymous human author, who wished his identity to be kept a secret.)

After nearly forty years of mystery, the author's veil of anonymity has finally been removed. The story behind the channeler's "secret identity" is actually quite fascinating. But first, some background information about the book.

There are currently more than 235,000 copies of THE URANTIA BOOK in print in two languages, English and French. Translations in Spanish and Finnish are forthcoming later in 1992, as well as a computerized version for electronic searches. Independent and "unauthorized" URANTIA BOOK readers have published a massive CONCORDEX and other study materials.

THE URANTIA BOOK contains 196 separate messages (plus a Foreword) from alleged disembodied beings in "higher" universes. Their discourses resemble what one might expect from religious alien intelligences, complete with galactic councils and interstellar colonization projects by angelic hierarchies. The "messengers" identify themselves with names like Divine Counselor, Melchizedek, Life Carrier, Midwayer Commission, Brilliant Evening Star, and Perfector of Wisdom. The planet Earth (which they refer to as "Urantia") is said to be down near the bottom of a cosmic scale of galaxies, universes, and superuniverses, all inhabited by billions of physical, etheric, and angelic beings.

The book is divided into four sections, describing an array of universes, "correcting" our concepts of God and Spirit, giving the "real" evolutionary history of earth and its religions, and offering a detailed revision of the life and words of Jesus Christ. THE URANTIA BOOK begins with copious quotations from the New Testament, particularly the writings of John. Early on, we learn that the creedal doctrine of the Trinity is false -- there are really three Trinities and seven Triunities, with different members in each. We also find that Jesus Christ is merely the seventh incarnation ("bestowal") of Michael of Nebadon (our "local universe"), the 611,121st Creator Son sent out by the Paradise Trinity. There are many others like him on other worlds, all "Michaels" and "only-begotten Sons" in their own right.

Unlike most channeled writings, THE URANTIA BOOK rejects the teachings of reincarnation and astrology. However, in line with other mediumistic revelations, it is dead-set against traditional Christian doctrines, including the inerrancy of Scripture, simple Trinitarianism, the Fall of man, original sin, the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ, faith and repentance for salvation, the resurrection of the flesh, and eternal punishment.

THE URANTIA BOOK records Jesus telling his disciple Nathaniel, "The Scriptures are faulty and altogether human in origin" (page 1767); and while "the Scriptures contain much that is true, . . . these writings also contain much that is misrepresentative of the Father in heaven" (1768). The Jesus of THE URANTIA BOOK flatly denounces "this erroneous idea of the absolute perfection of the Scripture record and the infallibility of its teachings" (1768).

Likewise, the book says, "There has been no 'fall of man.' The history of the human race is one of progressive evolution . . . " (846). God's covenant with Israel is referred to as "the chosen-people delusion" (1005). And the atonement of Jesus is emphatically denied:

"The barbarous idea of appeasing an angry God, of propitiating an offended Lord, of winning the favor of Deity through sacrifices and penance and even by the shedding of blood, represents a religion wholly puerile and primitive. . . .It is an affront to God to believe, hold, or teach that innocent blood must be shed in order to win his favor or to divert the fictitious divine wrath" (60).

Toward the end of the book we read, "All this concept of atonement and sacrificial salvation is rooted and grounded in selfishness. . . . Salvation should be taken for granted by those who believe in the fatherhood of God" (2017).

The real gospel of Jesus, according to THE URANTIA BOOK, is simply "the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of men" (2042, 2059), i.e., that "all men are the sons of God" already (1585). No act of reconciliation is needed, we simply open our eyes to this fact. Yet even as early as Pentecost, the book laments, the religion OF Jesus became twisted into a religion ABOUT Jesus (2066, 2091) and thus the original Gospel was lost.

Indeed, with one mighty swipe, THE URANTIA BOOK accomplishes what few other cultic writings have expressed in one breath, namely, the rejection of every significant doctrine of Christianity and Judaism:

"The cardinal religious ideas of incantation, inspiration, revelation, propitiation, repentance, atonement, intercession, sacrifice, prayer, confession, worship, survival after death, sacrament, ritual, ransom, salvation, redemption, convenant, uncleanness, purification, prophecy, original sin -- they all go back to the early times of primordial ghost fear" (1005).

The surrounding context makes it plain that these relics of an earlier age are untrue and should be dispensed with by enlightened humanity. How did this all come about?

Ironically, it was a Seventh-day Adventist minister and physician who was ultimately responsible for the publication of the Urantia papers. Dr. William S. Sadler, a psychiatrist and professor at the University of Chicago and teacher of pastoral counseling at McCormick Theological Seminary, had spent over a decade debunking and refuting spiritualism, even assisting magician Harry Houdini in this task. His better-known works on this subject include THE TRUTH ABOUT SPIRITUALISM (1923) and THE MIND AT MISCHIEF: TRICKS OF THE SUBCONSCIOUS MIND (1929). However, researcher Steve Cannon tells about something that eventually turned Sadler around:

In the appendix of THE MIND AT MISCHIEF Sadler recounts a story of one investigation into the psychic realm that he could not debunk. From the summer of 1911 until the time of his writing in 1929 he had a subject under observation who would go into a deep sleep out of which he could not be awakened. Sadler wrote: "This man is utterly unconscious, wholly oblivious to what takes place, and, unless told about it subsequently, never knows that he has been used as a sort of clearing house for the coming and going of alleged extra-planetary personalities" (MIND, 383). Of the communications themselves, "I can only say that I have found in these years of observation that all the information imparted through this source has proved to be consistent within itself. . . . Its philosophy is consistent. It is essentially Christian and is, on the whole, entirely harmonious with the known scientific facts and truths of this age" (MIND, 384). Sadler wanted to say more on the subject, but the person under investigation would not give his permission to do so.[1]

Beginning in 1923, Dr. Sadler invited a group of friends, informally known as The Forum, to examine these intelligences, which were now rapidly becoming more numerous. While the channeler slept, the spirits freely answered questions in a manner not unlike that of Edgar Cayce, the famed "sleeping prophet." Sadler and his cohorts compiled 4000 questions they wanted the spirits to answer. A few weeks later, the channeler handed Dr. Sadler a sheaf of 472 pages, answering every question which had been put to him/them. The channeler's wife told Sadler that the material had been written in a single evening. By 1935, the last of the messages was delivered, and the entities asked Dr. Sadler, by now a true believer and an ex-Adventist, that the work be published.[2] Twenty years later THE URANTIA BOOK appeared in print.

The identity of the channeler was kept secret for many years by the Urantia Foundation. In fact, the board of directors took a pledge of secrecy not to reveal the human author or its means of transmission. However, in 1991 Martin Gardner identified the channeler as Wilfred Custer Kellogg, son of Rev. Charles Leonidis Sobeski Kellogg, a Seventh-day Adventist minister from Vermont. Wilfred was a shirttail relative of W. K. Kellogg, founder of the Kellogg's Cornflake Company, and also happened to be William Sadler's brother-in-law (the men had married two sisters).

Wilfred moved to Illinois when he married, and he and his wife lived for a time with Dr. and Mrs. Sadler. He was one of the founding members of the Urantia Foundation, and his home was half a block from the present headquarters of the Foundation in Chicago. He died in 1956.

The Adventist background of both Kellogg and Sadler does explain a few things. For example, it's a point of Adventist doctrine that Jesus is really Michael the Archangel.[3] Martin Gardner pointed out some other interesting parallels with Adventism, notably how the name of an Adventist friend of Kellogg, G. W. Amadon, appears as an important figure of the Urantia papers. Gardner's articles were published in the SKEPTICAL INQUIRER, Spring 1991, with significant corrections in the Fall 1991 issue. The Urantia Foundation officially has "no comment" on this matter.
Spoiler


You can begin with the OP for starters and read at least the first 12 papers, if u want to know the foundational theology of the UB, plus the teachings of Jesus are quite voluminous in Part 4 of the collection of 196 papers. I've recommended some here to do that, just so they are informed and can actually debate the content. They protested which only speaks to their own laziness and ignorance, and does NOT contribute to the discussion, since all they will speak from from refusing will be ignorance, religious bias and presumption. But they keep protesting, and just shoot off polemics and pot-shots from outside, judging from their own preconceived bias, prejudice and bigotry. Just a fact.

We judge a religious writing by the actual content of the material, its quality, character, integrity, ethic, moral worth, consistency, value and meaning, while other aspects of the info. can be judged within the greater context of the arts and sciences. One applies all factulties to comprehend and relate in a discussion. This requires knowing the material, learning, expanding the dialogue to make it a fruitful endeavor.

The cosmology of the UB is very consistent as a whole, concerning 'God', 'Creation', the various orders of divine sons, angels, cosmic beings, the mortal progression plan of ascension on the advancing evolving worlds of space and time, the ministry of Jesus, the destiny of all material worlds and the worlds beyond this one, into eternity. For those liberal enough to enjoy expanding their religous studies and cosmology,..there is much to explore and consider, for those not interested, they can move along to those religious teachings or schools that resonate with them. Its a free world, we all have free will.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
It still means one ought not add or take away from Gods word as the UB does.

LA

Another point to consider is the observation that adding to anything somehow detracts or discredits what is being added too,..this need not be the case at all. If a former body of religious writing has any value in it, that always stands,....and additional revelation would only augment its truth, and expand upon it. Any additional revelation however may include correcting concepts in the former that have been developed that are not quite correct. If you dont believe in 'progressive revelation' you ought to reject the NT, because it ADDS onto the OT. Progressive revelation is a fact because we live in a limited dimension of space and time, as finite beings...and are in a process of learning, ...we are evolutionary beings in this sense. Mortals that are ever learning, and are progressing as long as there exists any potentials or possibilities that our consciousness will discover.

The concept of 'progressive revelation' holds.
 

God's Truth

New member
Jesus's did have to lay down his mortal life, then he resurrected a likeness of himself and returned, he had the power to lay down his life and the power to take it up again. I explained why Jesus voluntarily allowed himself to be killed and how the original gospel was different than "Christ and him crucified." You cant accept that a new gospel grew up after Jesus left.

Jesus never taught that his blood was to atone for sin. He never once used that word, other people did after Jesus left.

Its easier to make Jesus a scape goat rather than follow his original gospel.

Are you saying you do not accept the scriptures where he is called the lamb of God by John the baptizer, the one who prepared the way?

Are you saying that you do not accept Revelation scriptures, the words of Jesus being called the Lamb?
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Not exuses, but facts....each prohibition not to add pertains only to that particular body of commandments, instructions or revelation within the immediate context concerned :)

Also because there is progressive revelation,...there is no reason to assume any 'canon' of religious writing is 'closed' or 'final'.

The UB presents itself as the 5th epochal revelation to the planet, it naturally then will add to the previous dispensations. All newer revelations naturally are ADDING something, and/or in that additional information,...correcting wrong conceptions or misconstrued beliefs that got distorted earlier.

Beginning in 1923, Dr. Sadler invited a group of friends, informally known as The Forum, to examine these intelligences, which were now rapidly becoming more numerous. While the channeler slept, the spirits freely answered questions in a manner not unlike that of Edgar Cayce, the famed "sleeping prophet." Sadler and his cohorts compiled 4000 questions they wanted the spirits to answer. A few weeks later, the channeler handed Dr. Sadler a sheaf of 472 pages, answering every question which had been put to him/them. The channeler's wife told Sadler that the material had been written in a single evening. By 1935, the last of the messages was delivered, and the entities asked Dr. Sadler, by now a true believer and an ex-Adventist, that the work be published.[2] Twenty years later THE URANTIA BOOK appeared in print.

http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=823&Itemid=10

No wonder you reject the blood of Christ.
 
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