The NINE Commandments

[steko]

Exo 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

The LORD gave Israel the Sabbath to keep as a sign and a perpetual covenant between He and them that they understand that He has set them apart from the nations.
Punishment for breaking the covenant was death.

The LORD also gave Israel the Sabbath as a blessing because they were slaves in Egypt.
In Egypt they worked seven days and until they dropped.

Again, the LORD says He gave Israel their Sabbaths for them to understand that He has set them apart from the nations.



The Church body of Christ is not Israel and the LORD never gave a commandment thru Paul, the Apostle to the nations, to keep the seventh day Sabbath.
It would be to add law to grace, which would no longer be grace.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast(Grk.-steko) therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

 

[Old Hat]

so why are you not keeping the sabbath ?

How do you figure?

And if you're not a Sabbath-keeper, how do you figure you know more about what it means to keep the Sabbath than those who are?

 

[Jefferson]

Okay, let's put it this way: There are over 23,000 verses in the Bible. There's not a single sound Christian doctrine that is constructed upon one single verse of Scripture without any other support from anywhere else in the Bible.

If you want to make the claim that Rom. 14:5 proves that the 10 Commandments were abolished at the Cross, you would need to not only have at least a couple other verses to support that claim, BUT you would also have to consider all other contrary verses in the Bible.

I can give you many, in significant order, that prove otherwise - which proves that your specific verse does not mean what you claim it does.

Do you really wanna fight for the position that today's average Christian, and churches in general, do not accept all the 10 Commandments, besides the 4th Sabbath Commandment, as a general description of what it means to be a Christian?

So when I asked you, "Is Romans 14:5 going to be the very first verse you skip over?" was your answer a yes or a no? I'm sure part of your commentary would be what Romans 14:5 does NOT mean. And let's say I grant you that. That still leaves the burden on you to inform your congregation what Romans 14:5 DOES mean. What would you tell them the verse DOES mean? After all, it does mean something.

 

[Old Hat]

Exo 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

The LORD gave Israel the Sabbath to keep as a sign and a perpetual covenant between He and them that they understand that He has set them apart from the nations.
Punishment for breaking the covenant was death.

The LORD also gave Israel the Sabbath as a blessing because they were slaves in Egypt.
In Egypt they worked seven days and until they dropped.

Again, the LORD says He gave Israel their Sabbaths for them to understand that He has set them apart from the nations.



The Church body of Christ is not Israel and the LORD never gave a commandment thru Paul, the Apostle to the nations, to keep the seventh day Sabbath.
It would be to add law to grace, which would no longer be grace.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast(Grk.-steko) therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

The 10 Commandments were given to all mankind.

The Sabbath was consecrated in Genesis 2 and spoken of by God in Exodus 16 to test the people if they would obey His Commands or not, which took place before the 10 Commandments were ever given on Sinai ... to all mankind.

 

[Old Hat]

So when I asked you, "Is Romans 14:5 going to be the very first verse you skip over?" was your answer a yes or a no? I'm sure part of your commentary would be what Romans 14:5 does NOT mean. And let's say I grant you that. That still leaves the burden on you to inform your congregation what Romans 14:5 DOES mean. What would you tell them the verse DOES mean? After all, it does mean something.

Of course it does, but it doesn't mean what it is commonly taught to mean.

The Bible makes clear that being "under the Law" refers to those who are not obeying the Law. They are under a curse for not obeying God's Commandments.

In perfect cohesion to that, Paul was not under the Law ... as he was a keeper of the Law.

Under the law = under a curse = under a spell.

When we choose to live in disobedience to God, He places a spell of blindness upon us. He gives us strong delusion.

Those who obey God are not under that spell. They are free to see Truth clearly and to more clearly understand His Word and all Truth via the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Did not the scales fall from Paul's eyes when Jesus converted him and allowed him to then see the Truth of all his wicked ways and the Truth of the gospel (Godspell) and to preach it abroad?

 

[steko]

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

The 10 Commandments were given to all mankind.

The Sabbath was consecrated in Genesis 2 and spoken of by God in Exodus 16 to test the people if they would obey His Commands or not, which took place before the 10 Commandments were ever given on Sinai ... to all mankind.

Well, you are certainly at liberty to declare Scripture wrong, at least..... for now.

 

[7djengo7]

Bible-believing Christian.

But no anti-Trinitarian is a Christian—nor a Bible believer. And you are an anti-Trinitarian, so....

 

[Jefferson]

Paul was not under the Law ... as he was a keeper of the Law.

Concerning this teaching, do you teach, "Let each be fully convinced in his own mind" like Paul taught? Or do you teach that people need to agree with you?

 

[Old Hat]

But no anti-Trinitarian is a Christian—nor a Bible believer. And you are an anti-Trinitarian, so....

I think you've really stepped in it now.

Christian = Follower of Christ.

Show us where Christ taught that He was three persons.

A "teaching" that is, not a verse that YOU claim "demonstrates" your abstract doctrine.

Show us where Christ "teaches" the trinity concept that God is 3 people or else you have just called all trinitarians anti-Christian.

Clock is ticking.

 

[Old Hat]

Concerning this teaching, do you teach, "Let each be fully convinced in his own mind" like Paul taught? Or do you teach that people need to agree with you?

I've only ever taught that people need to agree with the Bible.

I have no opinion but what Scripture teaches - therefore I have no opinion but God's opinion.

If you don't agree, and believe, that the Bible is God's opinion, then you have no foundation for anything at all that you would like to argue here.

 

[7djengo7]

At least you're honest about that, and I think we can all agree with what you're saying about yourself through your gif. I wouldn't really think to call it weird, though; I mean, your failure is simply the common spectacle of all Bible-despising, Christ-hating heretics, and I've seen it all.

 

[7djengo7]

I think you've really stepped in it now.

Then you ought to be courteous enough to at least clean up after yourself. For shame.

Christian = Follower of Christ.

Duh.

Anti-Trinitarian = Enemy of Christ ≠ Follower of Christ.

Show us where Christ taught that He was three persons.

Are you asking me to try to quote Christ saying "I am three persons"? If not, then what are you asking me to do?
If so, then feel free to try to quote Christ saying "I am one person".

Clock is ticking.

LOL

Are you sure that's not your pacemaker?

 

[7djengo7]

I've only ever taught that people need to agree with the Bible.

But, since you do not agree with the Bible, hopefully you're not too bent out of shape by the fact that Christians agree with the Bible, rather than with you.

I have no opinion but what Scripture teaches

Misnaming your erroneous thinking by a phrase such as "what Scripture teaches" is merely a cheap prop that's completely useless against rationally-thinking people.

- therefore I have no opinion but God's opinion.

Here, you show yourself once again to be a God-hating blasphemer. Obviously you are not God, and therefore, you do not have God's opinion. Even were you to opine the same thing God opines (which you clearly do not), your opinion would still not be God's opinion, and God's opinion would still not be your opinion. Remember (you appear to need the reminder): you are not God.

 

[Tambora]

The Bible doesn't contradict itself though.

I agree, but there are seemingly contradictions for those that take the term "contradiction" too narrowly.

So if we have two seemingly contradictory verses, we must look to the entirety of Scripture to suss out what's really being said.

Yes.

If Acts 21:24 states clearly that Paul is a keeper of the Law, then interpreting 1 Cor. 9:20 to say that he is not ... doesn't add up.

There are many other verses and passages that teach Christians to obey the 10 Commandments. In light of that fact, we know that the Bible makes no claim that Paul did not keep the 10 Commandments.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

I would say there is no contradiction when scripture is taken as a whole since Peter also says:

Acts 15:10 ESV​

(10) Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?​

And many other scriptures such as:

Galatians 3:11 ESV​

(11) Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”​

 

[way 2 go]

How do you figure?

you're working on the sabbath by being on here specifically #5 see below

And if you're not a Sabbath-keeper, how do you figure you know more about what it means to keep the Sabbath than those who are?

there is this thing called the internet , and on that internet are these things called search engines , you can find out all kinds of things

.https://classroom.synonym.com/what-do-orthodox-jews-do-on-saturdays-12086588.html

Orthodox Jews observe a list of 39 activities they must avoid during the Sabbath, from basic work tasks, such as hammering and sowing, to specific activities such as erasing two letters. Because they do not use electricity, they do not watch television, answer work phone calls or check email, but devote themselves to complete rest.

Orthodox Jews know how to keep the sabbath , you do not know how to keep it ergo you do not keep it

list of the 39
.https://www.ou.org/holidays/the_thirty_nine_categories_of_sabbath_work_prohibited_by_law/

5. Writing (Note 19)

This includes all forms of writing and drawing.
Typing, printing, and using a rubber stamp all come under this heading.

The main objective of writing is the keeping of records, and therefore, the spirit of the law forbids any activity normally requiring a written record. Thus, the Sanhedrin forbade all sorts of business activity, as well as marriage and divorce on the Sabbath. (Note 20)

Calculations and measurements are also included, since they also normally involve writing.


Gambling and playing games of chance also are included in this category.

 

[Tambora]

I've only ever taught that people need to agree with the Bible.

Numbers 28:9-10 ESV
(9) “On the Sabbath day, two male lambs a year old without blemish, and two tenths of an ephah of fine flour for a grain offering, mixed with oil, and its drink offering:
(10) this is the burnt offering of every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.


Would love to know how you think you keep this law of the Sabbath Day.

 

[Old Hat]

At least you're honest about that, and I think we can all agree with what you're saying about yourself through your gif. I wouldn't really think to call it weird, though; I mean, your failure is simply the common spectacle of all Bible-despising, Christ-hating heretics, and I've seen it all.

Those who call evil good and good evil will burn in hell.

I guess one of us will be pretty crispy some day.

God bless.

 

[7djengo7]

Acts 21:24 states clearly that Paul is a keeper of the Law

No it doesn't, you self-righteous, law-breakin' deceiver.

Acts 21:24:

Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

​

Rather, Acts 21:24 states clearly that someone recommended for Paul ("thou") to do this and that, desiring that on account of his so doing, certain people might come to believe that Paul in some sense "keepest the law":

"(Do such and such) THAT all may 'know' that thou (Paul) 'keepest the law'."​

Acts 21:24 is a God-breathed historical record of what someone spoke to Paul and what they recommended he do. Feel free to try to prove that the speaker(s) speaking that recommendation to Paul were speaking therein as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. Lots of times throughout the Bible people are recorded as having spoken, where their having spoken was not a product of the Holy Spirit moving them to so speak. What they said is not authoritative; the Scripture record of their saying it is what is authoritative. We are under no obligation to believe that the recommendation was given by inspiration of God, or to believe that it was good advice, or to believe that Paul "keepest the law", or to believe that it could have been known that Paul "keepest the law" (since what is not true is never known, even if it is believed). We, rather, are under obligation to believe that such was, in fact, spoken, and that such was, in fact, recommended to Paul by some party. Feel free to try to cite/quote Paul, himself, writing or uttering agreement with your claim that he is whatever you'd call "a keeper of the Law". Have fun with that!

 

[7djengo7]

Those who call evil good and good evil will burn in hell.

I guess one of us will be pretty crispy some day.

God bless.

I take it you are not intending to be active on TOL for very long, God-blaspheming, lying troll. Claiming that I am going to burn in hell, smiling at the idea of me burning in hell, and then saying "God bless" to me is you taking God's name in vain.

 

[Old Hat]

the fact that Christians agree with the Bible, rather than with you.

You've been sadly misled to believe that Christians don't follow Christ.

I mean, that's okay I guess, that's the modern mainstream delusion so ... you're not alone and all, but ... True Christians, True Followers of Christ, walk as Jesus walked.
1 John 2:6

Jesus obeyed the 10.
John 15:10

Jesus taught the 10.
Matt. 23:1-3

Jesus' TRUE followers obeyed the 10 after His death - just as they knew good and well He expected of them.
Luke 23:54-56
Acts 21:24

It's totally okay to be ignorant of Scripture so don't beat yourself up about it, but get in there and study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not be humiliated with himself, who understands how to accurately interpret the Scriptures.
2 Tim. 2:15

You might still have a chance, but God's not too keen on those who are willfully, and woefully, ignorant of the book He wrote for those who TRULY love Him and actually take the time to learn what He intended for them to know and understand.
Hos. 4:6
2 Thess. 2:10-11
Jer. 9:6
Prov. 1:29

Probably no chance though.

Doesn't hurt to try though.

Probably futile at this point though.

Just speaking about you specifically.