toldailytopic: Affirmative action. Should government force companies to hire people o

[chrysostom]

Please enlighten the rest of us how either statement has anything to do with whether someone is liberal or conservative. And then account for why many liberals (perhaps even most) do not approve of affirmative action.

so who is for it?

 

[bybee]

Well

Well

If one is conservative, no, because it will exacerbate divisions among people in the workplace.

If one is liberal, yes, because it will exacerbate divisions among people in the workplace.

On the other hand, according to Glen Beck, the real insidious problem is with the "Progressive" agenda in this country.
bybee

 

[kmoney]

Affirmative action is not however the only way to attempt to address that, nor do I think it is the best way.

What ways do you think are better?

 

[Tyrathca]

so who is for it?

Are you implying that because some liberals might agree with something therefore ALL or even MOST liberals must agree? Besides the liberal vs conservative view is a false dichotomy, there are far more political ideologies than just those and even those have many varied subgroups. There are even groups which are hybrids of both liberal and conservative views.

Wake up from your black and white view of the world. Can anyone actually show that liberals in general approve of affirmative action anyway (and if so is that trend global or region specific) anyway? Or is it OK to just throw around accusations and labels without justifying them?

I think that my political views would be best described as liberal and yet as I pointed out above I do not support affirmative action.

 

[Tyrathca]

What ways do you think are better?

I'm not familiar with USA laws but existing laws here against discrimination based solely on religion, race, sexuality, age which provide for legal recourse (both through directly though court action or through government bodies) so long as the attribute of discrimination was not relevant to their occupation.The aim is that so long as employers base their employment choices on aspects that affect the employees ability to do their job then equitable employment will be emergent and market forces will deal with the complex pitfalls of demographics.

They are not perfect but represent a superior direction of action than mandating certain employment quotas, at least in my opinion. These laws do sometimes overstep their aim and restrict occupationally relevant choices and in such cases need to be reigned back. They also do not stop all discrimination by any means, but it does stop overt and systematic racism particularly in larger organisations as well as institutionalize a stigma against judging employees by anything other than merit.

 

[Newman]

Nonono. All of y'all are missing the essential point. Affirmative action can't even be debated as a viable solution to discrimination BECAUSE IT IS DISCRIMINATION. Who cares what results or end states it produces? If you are against discrimination, then you should be totally against affirmative action...

"We think that certain employers won't hire a fair number of diverse employees by not hiring certain people of color, sex, or sexuality (the problem), therefore we will keep them from hiring certain people of a different color, a different sex, and a different sexuality (the solution?)."

 

[Delmar]

On the other hand, according to Glen Beck, the real insidious problem is with the "Progressive" agenda in this country.
bybee

Glenn is not right about everything, but he is right about that.

 

[Nick M]

If one is conservative, no, because it will exacerbate divisions among people in the workplace.

If one is liberal, yes, because it will exacerbate divisions among people in the workplace.

:up:

Progressive is just a made up word to describe liberals/socialist/nazi/commie by such individuals without using such buzzwords.

 

[elohiym]

Well if any company only wants to hire white people that company will be out of business in a very short time! :rotfl:

I suppose that could put a company out of business depending on location, but shouldn't it be the right of a business owner to hire whoever he pleases, to discriminate regardless of the economic consequences?

 

[elohiym]

My answer is no.

I don't want a black man forced to hire me, especially if he doesn't like white people. That's the last person I want to be working for anyway, someone who hates me for the color of my skin.

I'd rather people be allowed to openly discriminate. That way, I know where everybody really stands, and I'm not forced to work with people who hate me for being different from them.

 

[The Berean]

I suppose that could put a company out of business depending on location, but shouldn't it be the right of a business owner to hire whoever he pleases, to discriminate regardless of the economic consequences?

Sure. A company should be able to hire whomever they want. I was commenting that often the best workers in an industry are minorities, especially in technical fields. I live and work in the Silicon Valley. You go into any high tech company in the Bay Area and you see lots and lots of Indians, Chinese, Vietnamese, etc., especially in software and hardware development. If an employer chooses to limit his potential pool of workers he/she is going to be in a huge disadvantage and most likely not survive.

 

[elohiym]

Sure. A company should be able to hire whomever they want.

:up:

I was commenting that often the best workers in an industry are minorities, especially in technical fields. I live and work in the Silicon Valley. You go into any high tech company in the Bay Area and you see lots and lots of Indians, Chinese, Vietnamese, etc., especially in software and hardware development. If an employer chooses to limit his potential pool of workers he/she is going to be in a huge disadvantage and most likely not survive.

Agreed. My degree is in computer programming, and was paid for by a company desperate for programmers. Coupled with time and budget constraints in software development, there is a perennial dearth of talented programmers.

 

[Frank Ernest]

Please enlighten the rest of us how either statement has anything to do with whether someone is liberal or conservative. And then account for why many liberals (perhaps even most) do not approve of affirmative action.

:rotfl: Yet again, you request that I do your thinking for you.

 

[Frank Ernest]

On the other hand, according to Glen Beck, the real insidious problem is with the "Progressive" agenda in this country.
bybee

One thing at a time. The "Progressive" agenda is the current moniker for a system that has been tried for millennia and failed every time it's been tried. Once again, since we don't learn from history, we must experience it and watch it fail. This time from the inside looking out.

 

[Frank Ernest]

:up:

Progressive is just a made up word to describe liberals/socialist/nazi/commie by such individuals without using such buzzwords.

You're right on and I'm down wit dat.

In memory, the label "Progressive" was admitted into the political lexicon back in the late 1940s so the :Commie:s would appear more palatable to the voters. The idea has gone through some iterations since, and now back to "progressive."

It's a liberal thing. When one term becomes perceived as unpopular, change the label.

 

[Tyrathca]

:rotfl: Yet again, you request that I do your thinking for you.

I've done plenty of thinking, the problem is my thinking contradicts your statements and I can't come up with any logical reasoning which might lead to someone stating what you did. So unless I develop the ability to read minds I can't figure if you've even done any thinking on the subject at all.

Or are you just expecting people to agree with you when ever you post, even when you don't justify a single claim?

 

[Traditio]

Affirmative action is unconstitutional. All men are supposed to be equal under the law, but AA forces employers to discriminate based on something so trivial as one's gender or the color of a man's skin. That's wrong.

 

[ThePresbyteers]

This message is deleted and closed.

 

[The Barbarian]

Affirmative action might have made some sense when I was young, and people had been disadvantaged by overt discrimination. But now it's not the issue.

And it's really not effective against more subtle forms of discrimination that go on today.

Ironically, affirmative action as promulgated by the federal government (LBJ) states:
Contractors are also required to "take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, color, religion, sex or national origin."

Not quite what some people interpreted it to be.

 

[aSeattleConserv]

Go

Go

the New American Standard Bible states: Leviticus 19:15 "You shall do no injustice in judgement; you shall not be partial to the poor nor defer to the great, but you are to judge your neighbor fairly. " Deuteronomy 1:16:17 "Then I charge your judges at that time, saying, 'Hear the cases between your fellow-countryman, or the alien who is with him. You shall not show partiality in judgement; you shall hear the small and great alike. You shall not fear man for the judgement is God's. And the case that is too hard for you shall bring to me, and I will hear it. Psalms 17:2 Let my judgement come forth from Thy presence; Let Thine eyes look with equity. Psalms 98: 9 He is coming to judge the earth; He will judge the world with righteousness, And the peoples with equity. Proverbs 2:7:9 He stores up sound wisdom for the upright; He is a shield to those who walk in integrity, Guarding the paths of justice, And he preserves the way of His godly ones. Then you will discern righteousness and justice and equity and every good course. Proverbs 24:23 These also are sayings of the wise. To show partiality in judgement is not good. Acts 10:34 And opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right, is welcome to Him. Romans 2:11 For there is no partiality with God.

I'm thinking that Scripture speaks against Affirmative Action.
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