toldailytopic: Is general revival at all any longer possible in the western church?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
TweetyBird
New member
I am not sure it is. It seems to me that the NT speaks of a falling away, no love of the truth, false teachers, wolves in the church, and deception to the point of deceiving the elect if not for the grace of God.
I am curious though, what verses foretell a revival?
I do not share Billy's freewill theology, nevertheless we cannot deny that a great many have been saved through his ministry...we rejoice, America ought to be proud of Billy....since so many have ben saved there must have been enough of the saving gospel in his message for the Holy Ghost to use.
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TOL is spectrum of what the western church believes broadly but with a great many going it alone.
It is symptomatic of an underlying problem...when Israel was ruled by judges and the leadership fouled up it was every man to his home O Israel. There is in my opinion too much leadership of man in the western church.
God is working mightily on other continents.
musterion
Well-known member
Agreed 100%, but the root cause of THAT problem is one we'd sorely disagree on so I'll not mention it.
None. But there have been breakthroughs and revivals in the past...the key is always back to the bible....I see little appetite for pure bible knowledge, rather when people wish to understand a doctrine they seek out vids and books etc for someone to explain it to them.
TweetyBird
New member
If he taught another gospel, then he is accursed according to Paul --- just sayin' :noway:
TweetyBird
New member
Revivals do come and go ... but are they Biblical? We agree that the Bible is the "final answer". If revivals fade away, then are they really of God? The pure Gospel of Christ is resurrection power - it never grows old, never dulls, never fades away.
Aimiel
Well-known member
The Holy Spirit is alive, just as we are alive. That which is alive is always moving. When The Spirit of God moves: nations tremble. The power of God is at work in revival. All it takes is one person seriously seeking God for a revival to take place. The church is dead. It has died due to tradition, dogma and ritual. It needs to be resurrected, and to do that: revival is necessary. We need to get back to the message (Gospel) and we need to carry our cross. Without doing so we are ignoring God's desire for our lifetime. He wants to win our enemies to His Army so that we can march together, sweep this world with His Message and get our job done.
Yes it is not God who ever changes but man. Revivals come when we return to the bible. And actually the revivals have not died away...the reformation has remained, the works of Bunyan are with us...the work of Wesley/Whitefield.
TweetyBird
New member
I am curious about your view. You seem to be combining organized religion with the body of Christ [the true church] - which are two separate and different concepts. The body of Christ never died, but Christianity's organized religion does have issues for sure - even though many in that venue are part of the body of Christ. The body of Christ never needs a revival - it is spiritually firm and serving the Lord unconditionally with His Love and Mercy given to others, and the Gospel of Christ spoken in all truth. That is the resurrection power that has never faded away or been dulled, and never will since Jesus rose gloriously from the dead. That just grabs my heart every time I think of it!
It reminds me another song by Big Daddy Weave:
There will be one Name that I Proclaim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnDTDLOM0rY
Aimiel
Well-known member
Those who are in The Body of Christ (whether they attend a church or not) are the ones who need a revival, just as those who are dead and attending a dead church need same. The Body of Christ needs to spend more face-time and seek for God's revival of not only those who are His but those who are soon to be His.
TweetyBird
New member
If a person is truly in the body of Christ, their life is filled with joy and a deep love for and a desire to serve Jesus. I have been a Christian for most of my life and I am not "dead". I am thrilled with the Gospel every waking moment. The concept of revivals confuse me as the concept and need is not apparent to me. We have the Bible - if people are not reading it to stay in focus, then a revival is not going to change that.
Revivals do not last. They fail because it is the flesh and emotionalism which hypes people up. When the revival is gone, they fall back right where they were to begin with.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Ideally, yes. Not every lives an 'ideal' life.
Many people who are don't realize the death they walk in every day.
Good for you.
I daresay you have a lot to learn, to say the least.
God doesn't want us to stagnate... He is alive... He wants us to not only read our Bibles but to make use of what is in there: a roadmap that leads to His Holy Mountain.
In your opinion. God brings revival to awaken dry bones. His Purposes are always satisfied. His Word never returns to Him void.
TweetyBird
New member
I don't know what you mean by "ideal". If one loves the Lord they rejoice in their salvation no matter what happens to them - good or bad. As Job said - the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away - blessed be the Name of the Lord! And Paul who said - rejoice in all things!
A revival is not going to "resurrect them". It's going to make them feel good, which like any high, soon falls away and you are right back where you were.
Revivals are not in the Bible, so I guess I remain ignorant, afayac.
The Holy Mountain is Jesus. If we are in Him, we are there permanently.
There is nothing about "awakening dry bones" in the NT. When one is in Christ, they are complete, at peace, and satisfied - which means overflowing with love and gratitude, praise and worship.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Maybe a dictionary would help...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ideal
Ideally.
You're preaching to the choir.
That is exactly what God does in most revivals. It's why it is called: "Revival."
Only silly persons are carried about by their feelings.
There is a LOT that God makes available to us that isn't explicitly spelled out in His Holy Word. That is exactly why He designed His Book to be a roadmap to guide us into a dynamic relationship with Him through His Spirit.
Symbolically, I guess you could say that. It is also His Dwelling-place, His Holy Presence, which will be our goal for our temporal lifetime.
Anyone can fall from any level. Be careful when you think you stand; lest you fall.
So?
So, when you were saved you were transfigured and now have a glorified body?!?
TweetyBird
New member
God does not speak of revivals in His written Word.
That is the basis of revivals - feelings and emotions. Which is why they don't last.
The work of the Holy Spirit is expressly spelled out in His Holy Word. Revivals are not "listed".
The "roadmap" does not include revivals.
Jesus lives in us, has made His home in us. You can't get any closer than that
So? So, when you were saved you were transfigured and now have a glorified body?!?
Spiritual, not physical. We can't take anything with but what is in our spirit/soul/mind/heart > not physical, spiritual.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Sure He does. Ressurrection. Standing in the gap between the living and the dead. Speaking to dry bones to come to life. Making broken clay vessels into new vessels. Putting new wine into new wineskins. Rushing mighty wind filling men with The Holy Ghost. Born again. It's all over Scripture. You're just not hearing God. When He spoke to Adam and Eve in the garden He said to replenish the earth. It is dead. We have to revive it.
You're entitled to your opinion. God uses broken vessels. He maketh it yet again another.
Yes, but so many people make of God what they want Him to be. He wants to make His Home in us. Not our home. Not some preacher's idea of His Home. Not church on Sunday and living for one's belly all week. Home.
He did NOT finish His Work in you the moment you were saved. He is still working on you or you'd be home by now.
TweetyBird
New member
That is not quite what a revival is. It does not bring to life that which is dead.
1: an act or instance of reviving : the state of being revived: as
a : renewed attention to or interest in something
b : a new presentation or publication of something old
c (1) : a period of renewed religious interest (2) : an often highly emotional evangelistic meeting or series of meetings
2
: restoration of force, validity, or effect (as to a contract)
We agree on this.
But a revival, according to your position revives that which is dead. A person who is in Christ is not dead, so why would they have to be revived?
He HAS made His home in us. Not "going to" or "wants to". When one believes, the Holy Spirit indwells, that is making His home in us - the Temple of the Holy Spirit, just like God "lived" or resided in the OT Temple.
What a revival does, as you have stated here is: a preacher's idea of His home, living for one's belly, etc.
I did not say the work within is finished when one is saved. I said, Jesus' work was finished on the cross aka salvation in full [forgiveness of sins, eternal life, the spiritual blessings of God in Christ].
We are changed to be made in the image of Christ. We run the race with our eyes fixed on Him. That is not a revival, it is simply living in Jesus, through Him and for Him. It is a choice that people make. Revivals do not "fix" lethargy - they only emotionalize the Gospel into a mountain top experience that does not last making people fall back into their old routines because what they experienced is not a true response to the Gospel of Christ.
Life in Christ is not about being revived every other day - it's about moving forward steadily in His grace, strength, mercy, and love through pain and suffering and sickness, in health, in good times and bad, bearing one's cross daily. No one wants to hear that at a "revival" - they want to hear all about the good stuff and have a warm fuzzy experience.