Show that to be the case.
It was part of the mystery not revealed until Paul.
Are the day of redemption and the day of judgment the same thing?
No, you posted verses you've read that into; you've posted nothing to show me to be in error.
toldailytopic: Is there a difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
genuineoriginal
New member
I believe in the resurrection of the saints as written in both the Old and the New Testaments.
Since the resurrection of the saints is a key part of the gospel, I have looked for all the references to it in the New Testament, and found that Paul talked about the resurrection of the saints in the verses you think are talking about something else.
If you don't believe in the resurrection of the saints, then you must believe in another gospel.
I never said I don't believe in the resurrection of the saints.
Now, show us that these verses state as you claim...
genuineoriginal
New member
1 Thessalonians 4:16 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: |
If you do not believe this verse is talking about the resurrection of the saints, then you have a lot of explaining to do to prove that it is not saying what it appears to be saying.
The burden of proof is on those that claim that the rapture and the resurrection of the saints are two different events.
I never said that wasn't the resurrection of the saints.
genuineoriginal
New member
So, we both agree that the verses in 1 Thessalonians 4 are talking about the resurrection of the saints at the second coming of Jesus.
Right?
Wrong. He is pre-trib and you are post-trib.
http://www.despatch.cth.com.au/Books_V/50RaptureReasonsbk.pdf
Christ comes invisibly FOR the Church before the Trib and comes back visibly WITH the Church at the end of it before the Millennium. It is one coming in two phases. It is not based on one verse (I Thess. is talking about rapture, not revelation), but all relevant, cumulative evidence pieced together with a probable chronology. Your post-trib view is possible, but not without problems/objections.
Which verses specifically state the dead will rise at the second coming?
genuineoriginal
New member
Your understanding of the tribulation is based of a false hermenutic, resulting in a "pre-trib" distortion of scripture.
genuineoriginal
New member
1 Corinthians 15:23
Yep! The 'rapture/catching up of the BOC' is when 'the LORD Himself' comes for the Church and they meet Him in the air.
The Second Coming is when the LORD returns to earth to deliver Israel, take His glorious throne and judge the nations as sheep and goats.
genuineoriginal
New member
Rapture, not revelation
Paul was talking about the resurrection of the saints in 1 Corinthian 15.
Why would you allegorize it instead of using a historical-grammatical interpretation?
The resurrection of the saints IS the rapture at the end of the Church Age. The dead Tribulation saints and OT saints will be raised after the Trib (post-trib.). The unregenerate lost and dead millennial saints will be raised after the millennium before the eternal state (Great White Throne).
The Bible does not teach one general resurrection, but firstfruits and each in their own order. A chronology is based on more than one verse in Daniel.
genuineoriginal
New member
Yes. That is what I have said all along.
There you go again with dispensational allegorizing of scripture to take away its true meaning.
The scriptural terms for this time is "time of the Gentiles" and "great tribulation" and "time of Jacob's trouble". The Bible does not call this time the "church age".
Both statements are true, if you are actually talking about the tribulation Jesus spoke of in the Olivet Discourse, which you call the "church age".
You should know better than to post a stand-alone verse if it doesn't explicitly state as you claim.
genuineoriginal
New member
You only can come to that conclusion by leaving literal historical-grammatical hermeneutics and resorting to allegorizing the verses that say what the great tribulation is and when it happens.
genuineoriginal
New member
So, what part of "at His coming" are you having problems understanding?
Huh? A normative literal approach leads to pre-trib, pre-mill! An allegorical approach leads to preterism, amill, etc.
:jawdrop: