toldailytopic: Will America survive Obama's presidency?

[rrr80120]

America has been heading farther and farther right for the last 20 years. President Obama is merely directing us a little bit to the left from the extreme far right that Bush took us to.

America will be better off for the Obama presidency. The real danger is if the lunatic fringe of the far right gets back in power after Obama leaves. If that happens the rest of the world will be fully justified in taking America out.

 

[Newman]

"Will America survive Obama's presidency?"

No. "America" is already dead. The United States, however is alive, and it, too, will fail. It may not happen during his presidency, but it sure will happen because of it. It's historical. When countries have foreign policies like ours, monetary policies like ours, unhappy citizens like me, disconnected politicians like ours, false bipartisan choices like what we have, and a growing majority of uneducated, doublethinking, and ignorant fools that are allowed to vote, they fail. They collapse under their own weight. Obama is adding to that weight by the ton, exponentially.

Do you wanna know how it will all start? I predict that in more than 20 years but less than 40 years the dollar will collapse, and the federal government will be dissolved. China and other countries with a lot of stock in the U.S. will try to get as much as they can out of it. Big cities, maybe some states, and banks will issue their own currency backed by precious metals. The currencies will compete with each other, like they should in any free market. Without federal funding, law enforcement and state level law making will severely decrease or stop. After that, either chaos will ensue or rational freedom will reign. I hope for the latter.

 

[nicholsmom]

I don't think we need to focus on who is a citizen . . .I think we have a good handle on that.

Why then do we allow the murder of citizens who are as yet unborn? Why was Terri Schivo legally murdered by her doctors? It's because these are not considered to be citizens with full protection of the Bill of Rights.

Frankly I'm disturbed by the fact you'd draw the line between citizen and legal aliens (at least it seems like you are doing this). Any human being in this country should be entitled to basic rights. Foreigners are vital to this country and anyone that is here legally should have the same rights as a citizen, save voting of course.

Even for illegals, not to be abused or held without trial indefinitely, its antithetical to the very basis of our country. How many of the founding fathers were actual "citizens" at the time?

Among the listed purposes for the US Constitution is "to secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity" - that means us, not foreigners. That liberty is ours by birthright, and belongs also to naturalized citizens by adoption; it in no way belongs to anyone else. If others seek that liberty, then they need to fight for it in their own countries as our forefathers fought for it in ours. We must continue to fight for that liberty to keep it of course, but to grant it to those who are not citizens is a misunderstanding of the primary purpose of our government - to secure those rights to US citizens. Don't misunderstand me though - I think that it is only proper to grant some of the rights enumerated in the BoR to any person legally in our country - they ought not to be deprived of life without due process of law, that sort of thing, but not the right to keep and bear arms with the same sort of freedom accorded to citizens, for instance.

Preventing corporations being treated as people will take a totally different approach. It has nothing to do with defining citizenship.

Sure it has - or at least it can by making sure that the language is clear that non-citizens do not have the same rights as citizens and enumerating those rights granted to persons on our soil legally, and denying them to non-persons.

Then you're abridging their right to lobby the government over your opinion.

I have tried to be clear that organizations ought not to be granted the rights of citizens. The individuals in a union may certainly hire a lobbyist, and they may even pool funds donated to that end, but to spend union dues on anything outside of direct negotiations is unethical. Those in a union may disagree on political issues and cannot therefore weigh in en mass on them. You seem to think that union members all agree with their leadership - it's the same sort of majority-rule by election winning argument you gave before. It makes no more sense here.

 

[Stripe]

How are we supposed to balance our books if we CUT taxes?

Perhaps individuals might be better at using their money than the government is. :idunno:

:think: They certainly couldn't be much worse ...

 

[nicholsmom]

Nuclear power isn't evil, but if misused it can be incredibly damaging. Problem comes from the waste. And its not just environmentalists all freaked out about that. NOBODY wants it in their back yard. Volunteer to put it in your back yard and convince your neighbors to accept it and you may be able to get somewhere. There's plenty of other technologies than nuclear also . . .

I'd much rather have a nuclear facility in the neighborhood than a wind farm - those things are dangerous, and noisy (damaging levels of noise), and ugly, and seriously inefficient.

What other technologies? Solar - worse than wind for other reasons. Geothermal - great for heating and cooling the house, but not much else. What else?

 

[Alate_One]

I'd much rather have a nuclear facility in the neighborhood than a wind farm - those things are dangerous, and noisy (damaging levels of noise), and ugly, and seriously inefficient.

Not a nuclear facility . . a WASTE DUMP. Do you want one of those close to your children?

What other technologies? Solar - worse than wind for other reasons. Geothermal - great for heating and cooling the house, but not much else. What else?

Offshore wind is less of a problem, Denmark gets 30% of its energy from wind.

According to some of the new solar technology companies, we could supply nearly our entire electrical needs with 100 square miles in the southwest. I've even read proposals to turn our roads into solar collectors.

 

[Ktoyou]

I think it will survive but it wont be the same America we know now.

It is nothing like it was when I was young; look at what we consume, it used to be made in the USA with cheap stuff made in Japan.

 

[Prisca]

Will America survive Obama's presidency?

I don't know. Things are getting pretty weird. Those in power certainly want this to be a different kind of country and they seem dead set on getting their way. It may still be called "The United States of America" but it isn't going to feel like the good ol' USA.

 

[This Charming Manc]

I think what the american right thinks is free, is to agree to do nothing they dont like or they will get there guns out and start threatening people/governments.

A free country.

 

[This Charming Manc]

Wow, where to start? Better in what way? Romans 13, are you serious? Romans 13 is a mandate for government to represent God. Obama hates him, and spits in his face every time he can. Government should not profane God by killing people that should live, and letting those that should die stay alive. Obama wants the opposite, and wants the opposite of the mandate for defense and infastructure. He is trying to run the economy, rather than macro manage it.

So nero respresented god and didnt hate him did he ?

Thats really picking and choosing, and intellectually bankrupt.

Romans 13 applies to all governments, not just the ones we agree with.

You have your political opinions and I have mine and they are different. I am just don't need to back my politics up with incredibly bad theology.

 

[This Charming Manc]

Glad im not a guest at your house, your hospitality sucks.

I also wonder of your perception of illegals is that they were the same color as you, would you stance still be the dsame?

Why then do we allow the murder of citizens who are as yet unborn? Why was Terri Schivo legally murdered by her doctors? It's because these are not considered to be citizens with full protection of the Bill of Rights.
Among the listed purposes for the US Constitution is "to secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity" - that means us, not foreigners. That liberty is ours by birthright, and belongs also to naturalized citizens by adoption; it in no way belongs to anyone else. If others seek that liberty, then they need to fight for it in their own countries as our forefathers fought for it in ours. We must continue to fight for that liberty to keep it of course, but to grant it to those who are not citizens is a misunderstanding of the primary purpose of our government - to secure those rights to US citizens. Don't misunderstand me though - I think that it is only proper to grant some of the rights enumerated in the BoR to any person legally in our country - they ought not to be deprived of life without due process of law, that sort of thing, but not the right to keep and bear arms with the same sort of freedom accorded to citizens, for instance.

Sure it has - or at least it can by making sure that the language is clear that non-citizens do not have the same rights as citizens and enumerating those rights granted to persons on our soil legally, and denying them to non-persons.

 

[This Charming Manc]

I'd much rather have a nuclear facility in the neighborhood than a wind farm - those things are dangerous, and noisy (damaging levels of noise), and ugly, and seriously inefficient.

You need to talk to the people of Belarus about that dear. Nuclear plants are very very safe most of the time, But when they go wrong they it gets catostrophic, also dont say it wont happen in the states.
It almosts did at long island.

As faras wind turbines being dangerous, what are the stats on world wide wind turbine deaths and injuries over the last 50 years?

I understand you not liking the look of them but to claim there dangerous is just stupid. we have a few wind farms in out part of the world i actually think they look a lot better than traditional power stations

What other technologies? Solar - worse than wind for other reasons. Geothermal - great for heating and cooling the house, but not much else. What else?

 

[bybee]

Well

Well

Glad im not a guest at your house, your hospitality sucks.

I also wonder of your perception of illegals is that they were the same color as you, would you stance still be the dsame?

Guests are invited. To play the race card, in this instance, undercuts your argument. You are making a speculative and insulting commentary. The point is, I believe, that our resources are finite. First they are meant to be used by the people who have agreed to provide them. Secondly, they are to be used for the common good. On this most law abiding citizens agree. Some sort of basic health care must be provided for all people in the community, regardless of their status, because unhealthy people are a potential threat to all others in the community. peace, bybee

 

[Frank Ernest]

America has been heading farther and farther right for the last 20 years. President Obama is merely directing us a little bit to the left from the extreme far right that Bush took us to.

The results of the 2008 general election disputes that.

America will be better off for the Obama presidency.

Do you believe America will be better off in crushing debt and bureaucratic dependency? If so, Obama is your guy!

The real danger is if the lunatic fringe of the far right gets back in power after Obama leaves.

:rotfl: I assume your fear is that rational people will return to power and rid us of the cancerous rot called the Obama Administration.

If that happens the rest of the world will be fully justified in taking America out.

"The rest of the world?" My, my! You are the optimist! Under what fantasy are you operating? BTW, look up the word "treason." I do believe your statement is very close to it.

 

[Gerald]

P.S. I think we're toast, by the way, but Obama's got nothing to do with it. Polishing brass on the Titanic and all that.

Got your escape route planned?

 

[Alate_One]

Never. It gives a voice against the machine known as the national media. Which is a bunch of liberal idiots like yourself. You want to silence them, then all we have is Diane Sawyer and Katie Couric.

Hey Nick, I'm NOT talking about relying on "the media", public or private to publicize candidates. I'm talking about a pool of money controlled by the government that's doled out evenly to each candidate they can use however they wish. Allowing them to do a certain amount of ads or whatever. If everyone can use any amount of money they wish, rich candidates can buy their way to an office based on campaign spending.

Still think the L word is an insult do you? Except I'm not one since I've agreed on a fair number of points with the "right wingers" already.

Of course I shouldn't be surprised by name calling from someone so cowardly that when they can't respond with reason, they simply neg rep everything they disagree with. :hammer:

 

[Alate_One]

Guests are invited.

And Nicholsmom is attacking everyone that isn't a citizen. Sorry, I've lived and worked with a lot of non-citizens and I don't see any reason to deny them rights when they're here legally. There's nothing in the constitution that says "and these rights only apply to citizens".

 

[bybee]

Hmmm

Hmmm

And Nicholsmom is attacking everyone that isn't a citizen. Sorry, I've lived and worked with a lot of non-citizens and I don't see any reason to deny them rights when they're here legally. There's nothing in the constitution that says "and these rights only apply to citizens".

I did not see your assertion as her intent. When we, as tax-paying citizens observe this very unintelligible and enormously bloated proposed budget we have every right to be concerned. I would agree with you that all LEGAL aliens be recipients of the same rights and responsibilites that citizens enjoy. One exception, if they break the law in a felonious fashion they should be summarily deported. I still maintain that our resources are finite and we must use them wisely for the greater good of our citizens first and for the good of those for whom we have the wherewithal to provide goods and services. If this ruinous tax burden continues there will no longer exist a middle class in America. What does history teach us about the elimination of the middle class? peace, bybee

 

[Alate_One]

Why then do we allow the murder of citizens who are as yet unborn?

Because we are willing ot make a determination of when human life begins. It has nothing to do with whether they are citizens or not. Are you saying you'd allow abortions so long as the mother wasn't a citizen? :kookoo:

Why was Terri Schivo legally murdered by her doctors? It's because these are not considered to be citizens with full protection of the Bill of Rights.

did you know the word "citizen" doesn't appear in the bill of rights? Its applied to ALL. If you're still talking about Terri Schiavo you have serious issues. People like her are allowed to die all the time, the only difference in her case was there was a disagreement between different factions in the family. She was brain dead, she had virtually no brain tissue left.

Among the listed purposes for the US Constitution is "to secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity" - that means us, not foreigners. That liberty is ours by birthright, and belongs also to naturalized citizens by adoption; it in no way belongs to anyone else.

But that isn't what the constitution says. Nor is it fair to exclude those that are here legally from ANY of these rights. Have you never worked with someone that isn't a citizen or something?

If others seek that liberty, then they need to fight for it in their own countries as our forefathers fought for it in ours.

some of them have . . . You think Europe and Canda are not free? You know you CAN have freedom without bloodshed. :kookoo:

I think that it is only proper to grant some of the rights enumerated in the BoR to any person legally in our country - they ought not to be deprived of life without due process of law, that sort of thing, but not the right to keep and bear arms with the same sort of freedom accorded to citizens, for instance.

Oh so we shouldn't kill them but everything else can be gotten rid of?
Keeping and bearing arms is denied to many people including citizens, and it should be, if you're crazy or have been incarcerated you lose that right.

But being held indefinitely in prison? That is simply wrong and against the fundamental values of the United States. President Bush broke the US by doing that, Obama needs to fix that mistake, but instead of standing on principle he's willing to cave to politics. Politics which in this case are evil and not representative of the moral high ground.

Sure it has - or at least it can by making sure that the language is clear that non-citizens do not have the same rights as citizens and enumerating those rights granted to persons on our soil legally, and denying them to non-persons.

We have "non persons" now? Uh do you not know where that road leads? Basic human rights MUST be accorded to all. Otherwise we are not the United States.

You seem to think that union members all agree with their leadership - it's the same sort of majority-rule by election winning argument you gave before. It makes no more sense here.

No I don't think that, I'm saying if you're going to abridge the union's right to speak you need to come up with a consistent rule to do so that doesn't single them out.

 

[Alate_One]

I did not see your assertion as her intent. When we, as tax-paying citizens observe this very unintelligible and enormously bloated proposed budget we have every right to be concerned.

Why take out the concerns on non-citizens? :kookoo:

One exception, if they break the law in a felonious fashion they should be summarily deported.

Assuming a string of appeals no? Lets remember our court systems are often not so great about finding actual guilt. You're willing to break up families over this?

I still maintain that our resources are finite and we must use them wisely for the greater good of our citizens first and for the good of those for whom we have the wherewithal to provide goods and services. If this ruinous tax burden continues there will no longer exist a middle class in America. What does history teach us about the elimination of the middle class? peace, bybee

Non-citizens pay taxes just as well as citizens. They contribute to this country in innumerable ways. They're hardly a drain on the country.