toldailytopic: Will America survive Obama's presidency?

[Jackson]

I have to say the biggest thing that will be difficult to overcome is the healthcare bill.

My wife is in healthcare and from what she has read it will be a disaster for pretty much everyone. Kind of like everyone winning the lottery at once. It sounds good until you count it out.

$1.25 for everyone!!! :doh:

 

[nicholsmom]

And the only way to stop that is to say NO private funding of campaigns. Public funding only. Otherwise people will always be able to buy their seats. The problem is the Supreme court is still protecting campaign contributions and lobbying as protected "speech".

And they are correct in that assessment, but only as far as actual "citizens" are concerned - not foreigners, not corporations, certainly not unions. I also don't know why limits to individual giving would violate the right to such expression.

The problem with this is you get rid of the good as well as the bad, However, I had a friend propose mandatory one term limits. No re-election means you're not beholden to anyone.

...except the inherited staff, perhaps.

 

[nicholsmom]

America? Sure...the status quo? That's a bit harder to answer. So far I keep hearing how close we are to change without actually noticing much of it beyond rhetoric on either side. But then, I think part of what went wrong with America over the years was the slow adoption of the notion of it as an experiment completed by our Founding Fathers instead of an ongoing, noble evolution of power as an aid to the individual instead of the individual as a servant to power.

"Noble evolution of power" sounds purty and all, but what do you mean by it?

 

[koban]

Lets hope it won't be the same America.

We're all struggling to survive the Bush legacy.

Obama's doing a great job.

Liberty and justice for all, not just a few right wing zealots.

Did you get stupid pills for Christmas?


You weren't supposed to take them all at once!

 

[Town Heretic]

I have to say the biggest thing that will be difficult to overcome is the healthcare bill.

My wife is in healthcare and from what she has read it will be a disaster for pretty much everyone. Kind of like everyone winning the lottery at once. It sounds good until you count it out.

$1.25 for everyone!!! :doh:

Well, shoot...there goes my tax bracket. lain:

 

[kmoney]

So, the question is what exactly does he and others like him mean by America as we know it?

What Son of a Jack just said . . . How exactly is it going to radically change in their view?

A free country.

 

[kmoney]

And the only way to stop that is to say NO private funding of campaigns. Public funding only. Otherwise people will always be able to buy their seats. The problem is the Supreme court is still protecting campaign contributions and lobbying as protected "speech".

And they are correct in that assessment, but only as far as actual "citizens" are concerned - not foreigners, not corporations, certainly not unions. I also don't know why limits to individual giving would violate the right to such expression.

:up:

 

[Mr. Beeks]

I think a better question would be if America will survive the democratic majority in congress. That's where all the trouble's starting... Obama simply signs on the dotted line, no matter what they send him (much like Bush did).

 

[kmoney]

America? Sure...the status quo? That's a bit harder to answer. So far I keep hearing how close we are to change without actually noticing much of it beyond rhetoric on either side. But then, I think part of what went wrong with America over the years was the slow adoption of the notion of it as an experiment completed by our Founding Fathers instead of an ongoing, noble evolution of power as an aid to the individual instead of the individual as a servant to power.

So, to speculate, you think the Founding Fathers would be okay with the expansions of government that we've seen? And, to be more specific, you think they'd be okay with this expansion being done at the federal level?

 

[Granite]

Yes, the U.S. will survive Mr. Obama's presidency.

The guy is a placeholder and an empty suit. Like every president, he's just a caretaker of the status quo. Whether this country survives the status quo is a whole other matter.

P.S. I think we're toast, by the way, but Obama's got nothing to do with it. Polishing brass on the Titanic and all that.

 

[Jackson]

Well, shoot...there goes my tax bracket. lain:

Only if you win the lottery goofy...

 

[Alate_One]

A free country.

How EXACTLY . . . are we less free?

I felt a lot less free under Bush personally . . . :idunno:

Guantanamo still needs to go.

 

[DocJohnson]

$1.25 for everyone!!!

"Pay to the order of Mrs. Wilbur Stark, one dollar and nine cents!" - Steve Martin, The Jerk

 

[Alate_One]

And they are correct in that assessment, but only as far as actual "citizens" are concerned - not foreigners, not corporations, certainly not unions. I also don't know why limits to individual giving would violate the right to such expression.

The problem is in my understanding (and I'm sure TH will correct me if I'm wrong on this) is that in the law corporations are treated as having many of the same rights as individuals.

The biggest problem now is these companies have figured out they can buy democrats just as easily as republicans, which is why health care reform is overly nice to insurance companies rather than being written as purely good for the people.

the other problem is if you stop lobbying organizations, who is going to lobby for issues you care about like say, right to life? Do you have time to go to Washington and lobby congressmen yourself?

...except the inherited staff, perhaps.

Perhaps, and there is the problem of "institutional memory". but something needs to be done so that corporate interests aren't still in the drivers seat on every issue.

 

[kmoney]

The problem is in my understanding (and I'm sure TH will correct me if I'm wrong on this) is that in the law corporations are treated as having many of the same rights as individuals.

I believe you are correct on that.

The biggest problem now is these companies have figured out they can buy democrats just as easily as republicans, which is why health care reform is overly nice to insurance companies rather than being written as purely good for the people.

Right.

the other problem is if you stop lobbying organizations, who is going to lobby for issues you care about like say, right to life? Do you have time to go to Washington and lobby congressmen yourself?

Why do we have to go to Washington? Congressmen can be contacted through phone or mail. I think the power of corporations is one of the biggest reasons our political system is broken.

 

[Cracked]

Well, I don't really think we survived the 8 years of Bush to be honest. I think America is dead in some ways, and I doubt Obama will be able/willing to fix it.

 

[WizardofOz]

The life of the dollar is the more immediate concern. Will it survive the Obama presidency?

I'll give it a 75% chance at this point.

 

[Egbert]

I think it will survive but it wont be the same America we know now.

Of course it won't; America is always changing.

What kind of change would you count as the destruction of America? (I'm not asking you to provide details, only a general idea of how far the change can go before you would consider the result a different country.)

 

[drbrumley]

America and its' people abandoned the principles upon which we stood long before today. Even before WW2 this has been going on. (See Signature)

To answer the question, America is not recognizable since the Civil War. Whatever Obama does just makes our demise more speedily.

Wizard brought up the dollar. I think the 75% chance survival of the dollar is really asking alot.

 

[nicholsmom]

The problem is in my understanding (and I'm sure TH will correct me if I'm wrong on this) is that in the law corporations are treated as having many of the same rights as individuals.

I keep thinking that we need clarification about who, exactly, is considered to be a US citizen. If we can clear that up, we'd really be in a much better position to protect innocent life, to protect our borders, to deport illegals, to prevent corporations being treated as if they were citizens. It would solve so many problems in one fell swoop.

the other problem is if you stop lobbying organizations, who is going to lobby for issues you care about like say, right to life? Do you have time to go to Washington and lobby congressmen yourself?

I've never advocated for the removal or hindrance of lobbying organizations. Unions ought not to be lobbying organizations since the only government action that they need, they already have - the right to be established. Their action from there on out ought to be in negotiations with the various corporations which hire their members. That's their charter and they need to stick to it. There can be lobbying organizations that lobby on behalf of union workers, but they ought not to paid out of union dues.

Perhaps, and there is the problem of "institutional memory". but something needs to be done so that corporate interests aren't still in the drivers seat on every issue.

I agree.