toldailytopic: You are asked by a friend: How do I get to heaven? What answer will yo

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Jacob

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I will answer more precisely soon. However for now the following answer is very related to your inquiry:

After Jesus' death on the cross and return to God, the Father, Paul had communion with Him. This was the point when Paul became saved, delivered, a child of God and a Christian. This was the final point of his passage.

Paul's approach before he came into communion with Jesus Christ and his experiences including his direct communion with Jesus Christ seem to be the passage which all humans must take and the experience which they must have in order to become saved, delivered, under grace of God, a child of God and a Christian. This has also been my own passage and experience which seems to have brought me into salvation, deliverance and made me a child of God and a Christian.

This event seemed to have been the natural follow through of Jesus' promise that when he left by dying the Spirit of Truth will come and deliver Truth which He did not or could not deliver when He was here physically. It seems that the Spirit of Truth was Jesus in Spirit form. Indeed it seems that Jesus in Spirit form is the Holy Spirit. Therefore it seems that Jesus' Spirit, the Spirit of Truth and the Holy Spirit is all the same.

Jesus was reportedly seen rising to heaven, in the air, in a physical body. The point is that Jesus did so, for showing those who did not know that one in Christ, could and does rise to heaven after death. However Jesus held this body, which had all reality of of being physical, only to a point, i.e. only until He had risen beyond human visibility.

It is not likely that Jesus (or anyone), could, would or did take His physical body to heaven. The fact is that things of earth is for earth and things of heaven are for heaven. The fabric of earthly things is different from the fabric of heavenly things and they need different sustenance for their upkeep.

Jesus' physical body was from earth. It was His mother's contribution and she was earthly, from earth. His mother provided the earthly element to create and sustain His physical body. Thereafter (i.e. after His birth) Jesus continue to support His physical body by eating and drinking in the normal human manner, essentially because His physical body was human. In heaven Jesus would not need a physical body nor would He (in heaven) have access to sustenance for a physical body. The fact is that when Jesus is in heaven with God, His Father, He is identical to God, His Father. God, His Father is Spirit, pure Spirit, and so too is Jesus, He too is Spirit.

God, Jesus' Father was and is from heaven and God. From this level and reality, God made a heavenly contribution to Jesus, the man on earth. God contributed Jesus' Spirit which was and remained the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, Himself. God who is a Spirit, the Holy Spirit, sent forth a part of Himself which is, it self, the Holy Spirit into a human physical body so that Jesus Christ, His son can be brought forth to earth. (remember we are told clearly, by Jesus himself, that God is Spirit)

However Jesus' mother contributed to Jesus, His human physical body. Therefore when Jesus was finished His God given mission as a man on earth, He left His physical body on earth and returned in Spirit to God, His Father who is Spirit.

Additionally, Jesus, the son of God, came from God who is in heaven. Jesus came from heaven (the realm of Spirit) and God, His Father, to be born on earth as a man. He did in order to walk on earth as a man and to experience death as man.

Then Jesus, the son of God, was done with His Father's mission, He went back to God, His father in heaven. Therefore in the middle Jesus was a man on earth. However before and after this Jesus was the fabric of God who is Spirit. He would not be different from God, His Father. When Jesus is with His Father He would be exactly like His Father. He would be Spirit like His Father.

We are told clearly that God is Spirit and we must recognized and worship God in Spirit. Can Jesus when He is absent from earth be any different? After Jesus' death from earth (i.e. when He returned to God, His Father in heaven), He could be no different from His Father. Jesus had to return to being Spirit. Therefore at that point and until now, Jesus, once again became and remains: Spirit, i.e. the Holy Spirit, just like God, His Father. And this is how Jesus took his place at the side of His Father.

My point being that this is how we are required to know Jesus Christ. We are required to know Jesus Christ in the same way as we would know and worship God, as Spirit. We would have to know Jesus as Spirit.

Therefore since Jesus is the Truth and the way and the light and no one comes onto God but through Jesus means that: one must know and go through Jesus, now in present time, to come onto God (i.e. to be saved, delivered, to become a child of God and a Christian).

And this is possible only by going through the Spirit of Jesus Christ, now in real time. And the fact is that: the Spirit of Jesus Christ is identical to the Spirit of God at this time. It is the Holy Spirit. And Paul confirmed clearly how one can have communion with the Holy Spirit which is to say, how how one can go though Jesus Christ or rather the Spirit of Jesus Christ, to come onto God.

Paul did confirm unequivocally: to search our heart to have communion with the Holy Spirit, that is to know precisely what the Holy Spirit has in mind for us and that the mind of the Holy Spirit is always in line with the will of God.

Since Jesus Spirit is the Holy Spirit, then this is how we go through Jesus Christ to come on to God. We go through the Spirit of Jesus Christ, which is the Holy Spirit the mind of who is discerned within our individual hearts.

The approach for becoming saved, delivered, a child of God and a Christian is no longer in mystery. It is no longer up in the sky. It is no longer a pie in the sky. The instruction is as clear as day. It is no longer unavailable. It was delivered by Jesus from His own experience of living on earth and dying violently. And it was tested and proven on Paul who expressed his experience in his revelations.

Indeed it is from Paul spirit to Spirit communion with Jesus Christ that he obtained the experience of become saved and delivered (i.e. on to Christ) and a child of God. Paul's experience of communion with Jesus in His Spirit is the path and the passage to salvation and deliverance and becoming a child of God and a Christian.

After experiencing direct and precise communion with the Jesus Christ after He died from earth and and returned to His Father to be Spirit like God, His Father, Paul delivered to those who can search their heart that:

each one must search one's own heart to discern precisely what the Holy Spirit has in mind for one. And that the mind of the mind of the Holy Spirit is always in line with the will of God. And it is by unconditionally obeying precisely what the Holy Spirit has in mind for us as discerned in this manner, that one is saved, delivered into heaven, becomes a child of God and a Christian.

This is an obvious follow up from a few verses before, that is, when Paul also confirmed that sons of God are led by the Spirit of God (i.e. Holy Spirit) And Jesus original statement that only those who do the will of God, His Father will be saved and delivered.

It seems therefore to become saved and delivered and a Christian and a child of God are all the same and this is accomplished by searching one's heart to discern precisely what the Holy Spirit spirit has in mind for one and obeying same unconditionally.

Also it seems that one must obey the mind of the Holy Spirit as discerned in this manner, unconditionally even if one must transgress all prevailing ideals and laws of society, morality and religiosity, including the Ten Commandments.

This seems to be the freedom, liberty and justification which are given to those in Christ.

And when one can live in this manner, that is when one is routinely always, unconditionally obedient to precisely what the Holy Spirit has in mind for one as discerned within one's heart or spirit in real time all the time, even of one has to transgress prevailing ideals and laws of society, morality and religiosity, one is also glorified by God.

This is the Gospel of un-circumcision which was rendered onto Paul. It is righteousness of God without laws.

To be come 'born again' is simply the actualization of one capacity to search one's heart.

To become 'born again' is to becomes aware of one's spirit or heart. This is the removal of 'the vial' over one's heart. This bringing one (divinely or otherwise) into awareness of one's heart or spirit or inward man.

Every one has a natural man (one's physical body) and one has an inward man (a spirit or heart) One is from earth and man, the other is from heaven and God. Both these bodies has faculties.

Our natural man or physical body has physical based (or earthly) faculties. These are our five physical senses and our capacity to think (which is done through our physical brain). When we dies we loose our physical body and we can no longer detect anything through our physical senses, not can we think.

Our inward man or spirit body has spirit based (or heavenly) faculties called intuitions. These were described by Jesus as, 'the eyes to see', 'the ear to hear' and 'the hearts to understand', Truth.

When we die we simply loose our physical body. Then we can no longer detect anything through our physical senses, nor can we think. However since we retain our inward man, we can know and detect the creation, Jesus and God through the intuitive faculties of our inward man or spirit.

To be 'born again' is simply to act of becoming aware of one's inward man and its intuitive faculties during our life on earth. It is described as our second birth. Our first birth is the be be born physically and physically aware. Our second birth is simply to become aware of our second side, our inward man. That is the removal of the 'vail' over (covering) 'our heart' which is also called our spirit or inward man.

Then one can search one's heart or spirit or inward man to know precisely what the Spirit of Jesus Christ has in mind for one. Jesus' Spirit is always in line with the will of God. Only with the removal of this 'vail' over one's heart (i.e. 'born again") that one can attempt to actually search one's heart. Before this one's heart is blocked and inaccessible. On cannot use this new approach.

Everything, including salvation and deliverance into heaven, hinges on being 'born again', that is, on the removal of that 'vail' over one's heart. Only then can one successfully search one's heart to know precisely what the Spirit of Jesus Christ (i.e. the Holy Spirit) has in mind for one. And the Spirit of Jesus Christ (i.e. the Holy Spirit) is always in line with the will of God. This is how humans know God.

Then by obeying precisely what Jesus' Spirit has in mind for us as discerned within our own heart, we will be doing the will of God, we will come onto God and we will enter God's kingdom of heaven.

This is how Jesus is the Truth, the way and the light and no one comes onto God but through Him. By going though His Spirit which is the Holy Spirit, from within our own heart or inward man, now in real time and all and every time thereafter, for ever and ever.
What if one receives the Spirit of God when they are saved? Also, is God the one who searches the hearts?
 
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Lighthouse

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So you are saying you don't have an answer??? Just advice for how one's state of mind should be??

I sure hope that people who are seeking the answer to the question don't run into people like you. :idunno:

My "inner knowings, and intuitions" tell me to avoid people like you.

I'm just sayin'.
I think he's trying to tell us he's on drugs.
 

Gurucam

Well-known member
So you are saying you don't have an answer??? Just advice for how one's state of mind should be??

I sure hope that people who are seeking the answer to the question don't run into people like you. :idunno:

My "inner knowings, and intuitions" tell me to avoid people like you.

I'm just sayin'.

I can say categorically that in order to become saved and to enter God's kingdom of heaven one must awaken to one's inner knowing. That is, one must awaken to one's heart. That is one must be 'born again'.

This is the absolute first step. One cannot be like the Jews who, up to the time of Paul on earth, had veils over their hearts. They were unaware of their spirit. They were described as 'the unawares'.

The unaware (of their heart) must become (aware of their heart). The veil over one's heart must be dropped or removed any which way.

More precisely one must awaken to the faculties of one's spirit or inward man. For indeed things of God can be discerned only through one's heart or spirit or inward man.

These faculties of one's spirit are intuitions, which is described as our sixth sense. Jesus described these faculties as 'the eyes to see', 'the ears to hear' and 'the hearts to understand', Truth.

Then having come into awareness of one's intuitions, one must accept these as one's guide instead of being guided by the ideas and laws which we have learn through reading and hearing and thinking and intellectualizing.

This is like leaving creeping behind (compared to thinking) and embracing more and more walking (compared to intuiting).

Indeed one will stumble and fall and reach where one did not intend. However eventually one will become a competent intuit.

Then as a competent intuit, one will have the necessary intuitive actualization to discern and unconditionally obey precisely what the Spirit of Jesus Christ has in mind for one from within one's own heart in accordance with Romans: 8 verses: 26 & 27 and Galatians: 4 verses: 5 to 7. of the KJV N.T

In Romans: 8 verses: 26 & 27 and Galatians: 4 verses: 5 to 7. of the KJV N.T., Paul delivered: 'To redeem those who were under the law, so that they could become adopted sons of God, God sent forth the Spirit of His Son into their hearts (or spirits).'

To access one's spirit wherein the Spirit of Jesus Christ can be detected and discerned one must be intuitively actualized. Jesus' Spirit can be detected and discerned only intuitively.

This can can be achieved by dropping one beliefs in, acceptance of and understanding of ideals and laws of society, morality and religiosity including the likes of the Ten commandment and stop being guided by same whiles continuing to have have social order by obeying the laws of the land. At the same time one must rely unconditionally on one's love led intuitions as discerned within one's heart.

God is love and urgings of love are the will of God.

The ideas is to be unconditionally obedient to the urgings of love which arises and are sustained naturally within one's heart for those specific people, things and circumstances in God's creation, even if one has to transgress all prevailing ideals and laws of society, morality and religiosity including the Ten Commandments.
 
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Gurucam

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A friend asked: How do I get into heaven?

This is the very adequate and short answer:

Paul confirmed in Galatians: 4 verses: 5 & 6 of the KJV N.T:

"To redeem those who were under the law, so that they could become adopted sons of God, God sent forth the Spirit of His Son into their hearts (or spirits)."

This is how Jesus is the Truth, the way and the light and no one comes onto God but through Him. It is by going through the Spirit of Jesus Christ from within one's heart, that one comes onto God. This is how one becomes heir of God through Christ (Galatians: 4 verse: 7). Take heed.

Forget all others of the past, drop everything, including all beliefs and become aware of your spirit and its intuitive faculties so that you can detect and commune with the Spirit of Jesus Christ within your own heart and obey same unconditionally. Then you will become saved and delivered into God's kingdom of heaven.

Are you rejecting Jesus in Spirit and hoping to see Jesus in a physical body? Or are you believing and repeating slogans?

If so you are the typical aspiring Christian. You are seriously misled and very likely to be among the many called and not chosen. Indeed according to the Lord Jesus Christ, the absolute very great majority of those who are called to Christianity will err because they do not know Truth and they will not be chosen, they will not be Christians or become Christians. Sad but True.

If you have a problem with and do not recognized and embrace, Paul's revelations in Galatians: 4 verses: 5 to 7 you are very likely 'dead in your waters' and it is time to get out of your 'killing circumstances'.
 
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Ask Mr. Religion

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Well, if I only have a few moments while riding in a elevator when the question gets asked, my elevator pitch will be:

Well, actually you don’t, for you are lost, hell-bound, and sin-bent. Fortunately, God has graciously provided the only means, through the sacrifice of His Son, Jesus Christ, to satisfy the condemnation you deserve from God for your hatred of Him, for you to make the journey. Trust, acknowledge, and place your confidence in Him who came to die for the sins of His people, and you will be saved. The word of God tells us that He gave His Son, Jesus Christ, for the ones who so believe, such that they will never perish, and enjoy life everlasting in Heaven. Sorry, but this is my floor. Think seriously about what I have said and feel free to call me at 687-5673 (OUR-LORD) anytime if you have more questions.​

;)

AMR
 

godrulz

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Not bad, but if they are not elite elect, they will be unable to respond and be saved even if they want to be. The biblical gospel is preached persuasively and passionately so that all who believe would become part of the elect. The Calvinistic gospel is preached to everyone, but only God knows if they are pre-chosen to be gifted with faith/conversion. God's love and provision is NOT limited and we can trust the Spirit to convince and convict all men, even if they refuse to cease their rebellion and rejecting His grace, mercy, love.
 

Lighthouse

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If I only had a minute on an elevator I would have to say something to make them want to follow me off the elevator.
 

Jacob

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Matthew 22:11 "But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,

Matthew 22:12 and he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?' And the man was speechless.
 

Lighthouse

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Matthew 22:11 "But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,

Matthew 22:12 and he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?' And the man was speechless.
Relevance?
 

Jacob

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Relevance?
Matthew 22:2 "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son.

What answer would you give to the question (in the OP) is what I was trying to answer.

I don't understand a lot about heaven. So, another question I have is how would someone even go to heaven without entrance into the kingdom? If someone is not saved, going to heaven isn't even an option. So, I want to know more about the verses that talk about heaven.

Shalom,

Jacob
 

Wolf

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I would answer:

Go up about the height of a big tower and you will encounter a solid structure, or "FIRMament." Find one of the hatches. Open the hatch, and a bunch of rain will fall out. After the rain falls out, you can go up to the realm of the gods. There you will find a white haired man and his son, sitting in an old-style throne room, keeping records in a big scroll.

However, I would point out that the scriptural hope of the believer is not to "go to heaven" but rather "everlasting life in the promised land (in the middle east). Believers don't "go to heaven" but rather "the sky-Jerusalem is to come to the dry land (earth):

Luke 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven [the sky], Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven [the sky], so in earth [on the land].
 

Jacob

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I would answer:

Go up about the height of a big tower and you will encounter a solid structure, or "FIRMament." Find one of the hatches. Open the hatch, and a bunch of rain will fall out. After the rain falls out, you can go up to the realm of the gods. There you will find a white haired man and his son, sitting in an old-style throne room, keeping records in a big scroll.

However, I would point out that the scriptural hope of the believer is not to "go to heaven" but rather "everlasting life in the promised land (in the middle east). Believers don't "go to heaven" but rather "the sky-Jerusalem is to come to the dry land (earth):

Luke 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven [the sky], Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven [the sky], so in earth [on the land].
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
 

Wolf

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"Heaven?"

"Heaven?"

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Hi, Untellectual. The problems with using this verse to prove that believers "go to Heaven" when they die are:

* first of all, since the lord descends from the sky (where he went, rocket-like, 2000 years ago) certainly shows that the scriptures were written with primitive the cosmology of Genesis 1, all the way through the NT;

* this also confirms what Paul says elsewhere, that believers do not "go to Heaven" when they die, but rather are dead in the dirt;

* the word translated "meet" is a special word that means "to go meet a dignitary to escort them into town":

Matthew 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet <529> the bridegroom.

Matthew 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet <529> him.

Acts 28:15 And from thence, when the brethren heard of us, they came to meet <529> us as far as Appii forum, and The three taverns: whom when Paul saw, he thanked God, and took courage.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet <529> the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

See the usage "escort":

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0057:entry=a)pa/nthsis

So where will he be escorted?:

Rev 19:
11 ¶ And I saw heaven [the firmament] opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his [its] name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

He descends to the land to war.

He destroys the worshiped Jesus:

2 Thess 2:
3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit [breath] of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a [the] lie [Trinity]: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 

Jacob

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Hi, Untellectual. The problems with using this verse to prove that believers "go to Heaven" when they die are:

* first of all, since the lord descends from the sky (where he went, rocket-like, 2000 years ago) certainly shows that the scriptures were written with primitive the cosmology of Genesis 1, all the way through the NT;
I don't follow.
* this also confirms what Paul says elsewhere, that believers do not "go to Heaven" when they die, but rather are dead in the dirt;
When people die, they are dead. They have not been resurrected yet.
* the word translated "meet" is a special word that means "to go meet a dignitary to escort them into town":
Not sure what you are meaning, but of note is "and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
Matthew 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet <529> the bridegroom.
Okay.
Matthew 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet <529> him.
Okay.
Acts 28:15 And from thence, when the brethren heard of us, they came to meet <529> us as far as Appii forum, and The three taverns: whom when Paul saw, he thanked God, and took courage.
Okay
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet <529> the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Interesting word.
Who is the 'he' you refer to?
Rev 19:
11 ¶ And I saw heaven [the firmament] opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his [its] name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

He descends to the land to war.
Again, who is the 'he' here.
He destroys the worshiped Jesus:
What are you talking about here.
2 Thess 2:
3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit [breath] of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a [the] lie [Trinity]: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 

Wolf

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"Heaven?"

"Heaven?"

I don't know where the idea of "going to Heaven" came from, but ever since the original covenant with Abe, the scriptural promise and hope was to inherit the land.

"He" is Jesus, descending to seize the promised land with violence and being to reign for 1000 years.

At the end of the 1000 years, he steps down and God takes the throne forever.

1 Cor 15:
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

That is the story of the Revelation - the subjection of the nations in preparation for the rule of God.

Rev 21:
1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Luke 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise [of the land] might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
 

Jacob

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I don't know where the idea of "going to Heaven" came from, but ever since the original covenant with Abe, the scriptural promise and hope was to inherit the land.
Israel took the promised land after Israel wandered in the wilderness for 40 years after leaving Egypt.
"He" is Jesus, descending to seize the promised land with violence and being to reign for 1000 years.

At the end of the 1000 years, he steps down and God takes the throne forever.
I don't know what you are talking about here.
1 Cor 15:
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

That is the story of the Revelation - the subjection of the nations in preparation for the rule of God.

Rev 21:
1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Luke 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise [of the land] might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Then you were saying that He (Jesus) destroys the worshipped Jesus??
 

Wolf

New member
>>>Israel took the promised land after Israel wandered in the wilderness for 40 years after leaving Egypt.

Hebrews 4:8 For if Jesus[Joshua] had given them [the promised] rest [in the land], then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

>>>Then you were saying that He (Jesus) destroys the worshipped Jesus??

Precisely:

2 Thess 2:
3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 ***For the mystery of iniquity doth already work***: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Rev 13:
11 ¶ And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit [breath] that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit [breath] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; ***and even now already is it in the world***.
 
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