Cross Reference
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No cigar. Apparently you don't understand what the word "know" means. Are you married?
ECT What is the Will of God . . .
- Thread starter Cross Reference
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No cigar. Apparently you don't understand what the word "know" means. Are you married?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Those who "know" the Lord Jesus by believing the gospel really KNOW Him. After all, "faith is the EVIDENCE of things not seen" (Heb.11:1). He has given us an understanding that we may KNOW Him:
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ" (1 Jn.5:20).
This knowledge which a Christian has of the Lord Jesus is supernatural in nature, as witnessed by Paul's following words:
"And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God" (1 Cor.2:4-5).
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What it means to "know" to know and the results of such "knowing":
"For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones." Ephesians 5:30(KJV)
"For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church." [/I]Ephesians 5:31-32 (KJV)
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. [spoken by Jesus before going to the cross]
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one,[as in marriage] as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. {intimacy]
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. John 17:1-26 (KJV)
"20. . . I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith [Life] of the Son OF God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
cf Hebrews 2:10 KJV.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Why did you just ignore the verses which I quoted which tells us exactly how we know the Lord Jesus?
Cross Reference
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You told me that I don't know what the word "know" means and that is exactly what I addressed in regard to knowing the Lord Jesus:
Those who "know" the Lord Jesus by believing the gospel really KNOW Him. After all, "faith is the EVIDENCE of things not seen" (Heb.11:1). He has given us an understanding that we may KNOW Him:
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ" (1 Jn.5:20).
This knowledge which a Christian has of the Lord Jesus is supernatural in nature, as witnessed by Paul's following words:
"And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God" (1 Cor.2:4-5).
How did you come to "know" the Lord Jesus?
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How did Paul "know" he was living by the very LIFE of the Son of God??? Gal 2:20 KJV [only].
Hey! To "Know" is the have "Intercourse"! "Intercourse" is the most expressive way to be "intimate"! That is why I asked if you were married.
With your limited "knowledge" of what it means to be redeemed, can you say you are "intimate" with God; really "know" Him??? You might also consider you don't "know" His salvation. Think about it. Try to understand it is more than a free ticket out of hell that you will never experience without the pursuit of "knowing God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent"..
"This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband." Ephesians 5:32-33 (KJV) Do you see the word, "mystery"? Think Spiritual "intimacy" per John 17:3ff.
OMT: I am writing this not so much in reply to you because I don't believe you will understand, but to everyone else who may have a question concerning what it actually means when we say we
Know" someone.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I asked you how you "know" the Lord Jesus.
The way that people KNOW Him is to first believe the gospel because before that no one really knows Him.
I'm married but that does not have anything to do with me having knowledge of the Lord Jesus.
Cross Reference
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If you truly desire to Know God, it has everything to do with it that Paul could liken it to the physical union between a husband and wife which Jesus used as the same analogy in John 17 3:17ff, i.e., to "know" God [as Father] AND Himself:
1.The Church is the "Bride of Christ".
2. She is married to the "Bridegroom" Jesus. They become "one" as in having "intercourse".
3. Together they bring forth the multi-membered "Body of Christ" who will rule and reign with Him forever..
Now, alot of questions can be asked, and should be with regards to what we presently witness and might say is a failed union with the church and what God has planned to rectify the situation..
Cross Reference
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If you truly desire to Know God, it has everything to do with it that Paul could liken it to the physical union between a husband and wife which Jesus used as the same analogy in John 17 3:17ff, i.e., to "know" God [as Father] AND Himself:
1.The Church is the "Bride of Christ".
2. She is married to the "Bridegroom" Jesus. They become "one" as in having "intercourse".
3. Together they bring forth the multi-membered "Body of Christ" who will rule and reign with Him forever..
Now, alot of questions can be asked, and should be with regards to what we presently witness and might say is a failed union with the church and what God has planned to rectify the situation..
BTW: I am assuming this of you:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Do you not even realize that before anyone can know the Lord Jesus they must first believe the gospel?
So what would those who the Father called " believe " in , the 1500 years before the NT was compiled . Very few had access to the manuscripts , in few isolated areas . What if God was calling someone on the other side of the globe , and the gospel message wouldn't be there for another 1700 years ?
The word " believe " is a mistranslation , wake up !
Cross Reference
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Yes. And?? What is your point? Isn't that the way you "learned" your wife before you "knew" her?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
My point is that you asked me what's next. Since I already know the Lord Jesus I want to serve Him so I tell others the good news about the Him as Lord and Savior so they can know Him too.
That is my answer and nothing you have said even hints that I am wrong.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Believe that God exists and live according to one's conscience, as witnessed by what Peter said to Cornelius:
"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35. But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him" (Acts 10:34-35).
We also read this:
"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him" (Heb.11:6).
Where did you find the correct translation?
The application of Faith must be something that could have been fulfilled even without God's word , or before it was available to most called out ones .
The answer is in the Vines Greek dictionary . The application of Faith is the Greek word pisteuo . Pisteuo is defined as " a personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender ."
That could have been done , starting a relationship with Christ , simply begun by the drawing of the Father , then responded to by pisteuo .
Cross Reference
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Wrong?? Incomplete would be a better choice of words. You keep ignoring what intimacy is all about between 2 people.
OMT: Make the comparison between your "intimate" relationship with your wife and the one you have with Jesus Christ. I sense you are more about words and little understanding of what it really means to be intimate in the Spiritual sense. However, being a cessionist, as I believe you are, will greatly hinder your understanding about all of that for which Redemption has made possible ..
nikolai_42
Well-known member
If I can jump in here, I've been reading the back and forth and it seems like you are saying that crossing the threshold of salvation is "it" when it comes to knowing God. That once you do that you are then a missionary to call more people to salvation. What CR is getting at is that this is merely the starting point. That if you think you know Christ as you ought simply because you've been saved that you're missing out on something far more.
The question I would ask if I were him is why you say that you know Christ (in the sense of having that complete knowledge) yet Paul claimed it was an ongoing thing?
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Philippians 3:8-14
Those don't sound like the words of one who has said (with regard to his personal relationship to Christ) "I'm saved, I know Christ, now I need to go and evangelize the world".
EDIT : I should add that this says nothing whatsoever about the call to evangelize. It is meant to address ONLY the believer's status in relation to Christ and what is involved in conforming us to His image. Scriptures such as I Cor 8:2, I Cor 13:9 and Ephesians 4:13 underscore this deficit that will not be fully satisfied until (at least) our face-to-face meeting with Him (I John 3:2)
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I said that a person cannot "know" the Lord Jesus until he believes the gospel. And I never said anyone has the full knowledge of Him before he can share the good news with others. And I never said that that anyone has a complete knowledge of Him upon belief because a Christian's knowledge of Him happens over time (2 Pet.3:18).
So what's your beef?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Of course you conveniently left out the primary definition given by Vine: "primarily, 'firm persuasion,' a conviction based upon hearing."