JosephR
New member
I see your Anarchy sign and it dont mean a man made Gov that you proclaim to defy..
I choose not to learn anymore the ways of man.. look around you ..
Id respect you if you were honest.
Whiny Atheists
- Thread starter WizardofOz
- Start date
I see your Anarchy sign and it dont mean a man made Gov that you proclaim to defy..
I choose not to learn anymore the ways of man.. look around you ..
Id respect you if you were honest.
Well I certainly have not lied to you about anything.
Anyone who doesnt think that this country was founded on God, can start by studying puritan jurisprudence and tracing our laws from there and also learn that universalism back then didnt mean what it means today.
Then universalism meant that all christian denominations were equal - it did not mean any and all religions and lack of religion was and no thomas jefferson was not a deist - that is quite the fancy revisionism that source documents easily dispels. His beef was the arguments between different factions of christianity, like catholics and presbyterians and methodists and baptists.
Our ivy league colleges also were once seminaries.
Then universalism meant that all christian denominations were equal - it did not mean any and all religions and lack of religion was and no thomas jefferson was not a deist - that is quite the fancy revisionism that source documents easily dispels. His beef was the arguments between different factions of christianity, like catholics and presbyterians and methodists and baptists.
Our ivy league colleges also were once seminaries.
Let me guess, you are a big fan of Dave Barton.
Not really, i was just fortunate to get a very good education.
Actually, my nation, if you mean the Jewish Nation, is not uniform in religion. And my country, Israel, certainly isn't uniform in religion.
Have you ever heard of this thing called "the US Constitution"?
Yes, and God was already mentioned in the Declaration of Independence - 5 times in fact. Your point about the constitution?
gcthomas
New member
Perhaps you could actually start by studying your constitution? The constitution set up the Supreme Court as sole interpreters of the Constitution, and they are quite clear that the US is a secular organisation.
Why do you think that Christianity isn't specified in the Constitution?
Was it left out by accident, do you think?
I'd say the same thing about my education too, but one of us got some bad information.
I can't argue the Puritan influence. It's why I can't buy alcohol on sunday morning. I think it also had something to do with why women could not vote, hold office, own property.
If Jefferson was not a Deist, what was he? I just can't see a Christian hacking up the Bible, throwing away all references to Jesus being supernatural, and piecing it back together. Everything I ever read about him told me he agrees with some of the teachings of Jesus, but he rejected to concept of a creator and questioned the historical accuracy of the Bible. My impression is that he was a borderline Atheist. Also, I'm interested in these source documents you refer to. I know there was at least one letter where he called himself a Christian, but only in the philosophical sense.
The Constitution contains no references to any gods, short of the dating convention of the time, and guarantees no religious test to hold office. The Bill of Rights says congress shall not establish religion or deny the free practice of religion. That pretty much goes against the first Commandment. The Treaty of Tripoli states the Unites States was not founded on the Christian doctrine. I'm sure you have heard all this before.
The point I'm trying to make here is that God was not the foundation, but concepts of freedom and liberty were. It's why we have the freedoms we have. Why we have the style of government we have. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if God were at the core of this country's foundation, we would have a national religion, monarchy, divine right of kings, rule by birthright and at least a few other things I'm not thinking about.
gcthomas
New member
The funny thing is, that the US legal system was based on ours in the UK. We DO have a constitutional religion, a religious foundation to the monarchy and the trappings of Christianity throughout the government system.
But, religion has effectively no input into how the country is run. It is a typically British fudge solution. The church can stay, formally, in the constitutional arrangements of the nation but they will be thoroughly ignored. Any politician who said that their decisions were governed by their faith would have no hope of election as prime minister, for example.
So A4T thinks that her secular government should be directed to by one specific religion, while the mother country HAS a religious constitution but also a well established secular tradition.
What I'm saying is this - the origins of the country and the opinions of founders are irrelevent. It is what you have now which is what you need to work with. And the USA has a firmly secular set of government institutions. Get used to it.
The Declaration of Independence is not a legal document. The Constitution is.
JosephR
New member
Speak not of My Nation least I can speak of yours.
In a sense you are correct. The Declaration of Independence was an illegal document. It was rebellion against the crown. Treason. A death warrant to those who signed it. Yet in a larger sense it was a statement for the ages. We are now faced with a similar urgency. A tiny elite of plantation owners has managed to enslave the entire country. So once again it is time to declare that....when in the course of human history .....
Yeah it looks to me like the UK is more secular than the US, despite the national religion. I wasn't even really thinking about the UK's government when I wrote that.
JosephR
New member
This is where we differ oh Child Of David.
God Choose you.. You had no say in the matter,, out of all nations of the world He Choose you .
Now We or I cannot change that fact nor can any man influence the mind of Yah Weh.
But What I do Choose is to partake of the Covenant of Israel.
Unless you declare Your Prophet Isiah a Liar , I can partake of the Covenant of the Lord
“To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths,
who choose the things that please me
and hold fast my covenant,
5 I will give in my house and within my walls
a monument and a name
better than sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
that shall not be cut off.
If I grab ahold..
If I am grafted in
If I follow the Lord whos Sabbaths you have desecrated and made an abomination, for if I will make Holy what the Lord proclaimed I am ensured A everlasting name.
For you Son of David have made the New Moons and Sabbaths a thing that God Hates...
How have Ye Son of David made a Calf of Gold and bronze whilst Moses talked with God on the mount?
Oh Ye stiffed Necked Jew.
You have made that which is Holy a profane thing to God.
How much have ye offended God to offer ME? Yes ME salvation?
Three Million of Ye seed of Abraham Saw God and made ye a Golden calf.. Ye Fool.
Now be grafted in with me if you want,
Partake in the New Covenant heb 8:8 when the house of Israel and
Judah are joined.
Make not a strange FIRE again? The sons of Arron be killed again,, stiffed neck Jew.
gcthomas
New member
Are you a eunuch, then?
JosephR
New member
Enuach means a foreign person of Isreal of a different faith, In that sense YES I am that.
God Choose them,,they did not choose God ,but for the Enuach who choose to have faith in God Yes they are included. Regardless of there heritage.
gcthomas
New member
I've never seen a reference to eunuchs that didn't refer to issues with reproduction. Why do you interpret eunuch in a different way? Do you have a link I could read up on?