God elects those who repent. It is NOT the other way around!Where Gods Elect Justified before and by God while they were ungodly?
The mere fact alone they are Gods elect means they are Justified Rom 8:33
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Even when the elect are in a unregenerate state dead in sins, and by nature, children of wrath as others Eph 2:3, they are yet still Gods elect and therefore Justified before God.
As long as a person is one of Gods elect nothing shall be laid to their charge by God!
An elect is an elect while in a lost state even as a sheep is a sheep while in a lost state Lk 15:4-6
4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
John 3:15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
This is only the most famous verse in the entire bible and one of the most basic tenets of the entire Christian faith! Faith is not something that is done to you by God! God has made the way of salvation by paying the price for it with His own life and He offers that salvation as a free gift to all. Those who say "yes" to God are His elect, those who don't are condemned already. Why? Because God predestined them to be? No! They are condemned because they do not believe!
John 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, BECAUSE he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, BECAUSE their deeds were evil.
Why was Noah and his family saved from the flood? Was it because God predestined it? That isn't the reason God Himself gave for saving him...
Genesis 7:1 Then the Lord said to Noah, “Come into the ark, you and all your household, BECAUSE I have seen that you are righteous before Me in this generation.
Was Abraham promised that the Messiah would come through his seed because God had prearranged it before time began? That isn't what God Himself said was the reason....
Gen 22:15 Then the Angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time out of heaven, 16 and said: “By Myself I have sworn, says the Lord, BECAUSE you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son— 17 blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies. 18 In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, BECAUSE you have obeyed My voice.”
And, of course, I could go on like this all day long! But, before I finish, lets look at the verses that b57 himself rips from their context and then quotes as though they actually support the notion that God is unjust. We'll take them in the order of appearance.
The first verse he mentions is Romans 8:33. Let's read it in context...
Romans 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So, in context, we see clearly that Paul's focus here is on Christ, not on election or predestination or whatever else you want to call it. The point being made is that we can't be condemned because God, who is THE Judge, punished His own Son for our sin! It isn't that there can be no charge against us because we were randomly selected by God, for no reason at all, before time began, which is what b57 wants you to believe, but because Christ has already paid the penalty!
Then b57 mentions Ephesians 2:3, which says precisely nothing about unbelievers being God's elect! To understand this, all you have to do is read Paul's letter as though it was all one single letter and not as though chapter two was disconnected from the rest of what Paul wrote to the Ephesians...
Ephesians 1: 15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.
22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
I could have quoted the whole of the first chapter of Ephesians where we learn that it is IN CHRIST that we are predestined but I feel like I've established that it is groups that God predestines, not individuals, in the very recent past and so I've left it off for brevity sake.
Lastly, b57 brings up Luke 15:4-6, which also has been yanked completely out of its context and applied in a manner never intended by the Author...
Luke 15:1 Then all the tax collectors and the sinners drew near to Him to hear Him. 2 And the Pharisees and scribes complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them.” 3 So He spoke this parable to them, saying:
4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
8 “Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp, sweep the house, and search carefully until she finds it? 9 And when she has found it, she calls her friends and neighbors together, saying, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found the piece which I lost!’ 10 Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Of all the passages that b57 brings up, this is my favorite because he cannot use it as a pretext for election without tacitly contradicting his doctrine of predestination, which is essentially the same doctrine!
How does the Calvinist deal with verse nine, which is the explicit explanation of the parables that Jesus just got through teaching. Doesn't Jesus know who is and isn't "elect"? Does the Calvinist reject the idea that any "lost sheep" were lost because God predestined them to be lost? Does the Calvinist really believe that God hides "coins" from Himself that He then has to diligently search for in order to find and then throws a party when He discovers the "coin" which He Himself predestined to be lost in the first place?
The only way anyone can believe such nonsense is if they are a child (no different than believing in Santa Claus) or if they turn off their mind and refuse to think their doctrines through!
1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge