You Cannot Live the Christian Life

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Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Theoretically possible is not in the same realm as reality and practical application.

Since it is theoretically possible for a person to obtain eternal life by his own deeds then that can only mean that he has the ability to do that. If a person doesn't have that ability then it wouldn't even be theoretically possible.

If a person does not have the ability to keep the law then it would be unjust of God to declare anyone guilty of breaking the law.

The fact that the Lord Jesus, who was made like His brethren in all things (Heb.2:17), kept the law perfectly proves that all people have that ability. So when He kept the law perfectly He lived a Christian life.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
If that is true then why was the Lord Jesus own will in opposition to that of the Father?:

"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt"
(Mt.26:39).​

The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. What's the point you're trying to make?

Now would you answer my question?:

Do you deny that it was the Lord Jesus' own will which resulted in Him doing the will of the Father?

I've answered you once already.

I believe what is true for us was true for the man Jesus.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
When Paul speaks of walking after the flesh he is speaking of living a self-centered life. When he speaks of walking after the Spirit he is speaking about living a God-centered life. There is nothing that is sinful about a person's flesh or his body. Let us look at the following verse:
Spoiler

"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Ro.8:4).​

Paul speaks about that same principle in the verse which follows:

"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit"
(Ro.8:5).​

We can also understand that it is indeed possible for a Christian to walk or live after the flesh because Paul tells Christians that if they live after the flesh they shall die:

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Ro.8:13).​

The "death" spoken of here is in regard to the "life" which Paul speaks of here:, that "we should also walk in newness of life" (Ro.6:4) so that "the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh" (2 Cor.4:11). So if a Christian lives a self-centered life any newness of life which they once had will die or cease to exist.

The second part of verse 13 is telling Christians that if they mortify the deeds of the body they will live. Christians are already received eternal life so Paul's words there are also referring to walking in newness of life.

I never said there was anything sinful about a person's flesh or his body.

The unsaved live a self-centered life. They are carnal.

I don't agree with you that believers can be children of the night. So, let's not go there.
For some reason, you have a very low opinion of the "new creature". I don't.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Since it is theoretically possible for a person to obtain eternal life by his own deeds then that can only mean that he has the ability to do that. If a person doesn't have that ability then it wouldn't even be theoretically possible.

If a person does not have the ability to keep the law then it would be unjust of God to declare anyone guilty of breaking the law.

The fact that the Lord Jesus, who was made like His brethren in all things (Heb.2:17), kept the law perfectly proves that all people have that ability. So when He kept the law perfectly He lived a Christian life.

Theoretically possible? So you say.

I say, it's not possible, for the very reason that God had to send His own Son to accomplish it for us. Nor is it unjust of God, for the simple reason that man was created to rely totally on God and to trust totally in Him.

The fact that Jesus was "made like His brethren in all things" does not mean He ceased being God. He was God in the flesh, which means He was holy and righteous in all things. There is no other human being ever that had the wisdom and power of God.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Theoretically possible? So you say.

Even the Calvinists agree with me that people have the ability. In his commentary on Romans 2:5-8 Douglas J. Moo writes that "Verses 7 and 8 outline the two possible outcomes of God rendering to 'each' according to works. On the one hand, to 'those who by their persistence in good works and seeking glory and honor and immorality' he will 'render' eternal life. Paul's suggestion that a person's 'good work' might lead to eternal life seems strange in the light of his teaching elsewhere."

Of course it is going to sound strange to a Calvinist because it contradicts their teaching of Total Depravity. The Apostle Paul says that it is the doers of the law who shall be justified:

"For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified"
(Ro.2:13).​

Moo understand that it is at least theoretically possible for the doers of the law to be justified, writing that "he (Paul) upholds faithful obedience to God, or to the law as a 'theoretical' means of obtaining justification (cf. 2:13; 7:10)."

Every Jew had the ability to keep the law to the extent of being justified. And that means that the Lord Jesus had the ability to keep the law perfectly. And He did in fact keep it perfectly and therefore it is ridiculous to argue that He said that He couldn't live a Christian life.

I say, it's not possible, for the very reason that God had to send His own Son to accomplish it for us.

Every person has the ability but not the "will." Sooner or later every single person sins so you are right, it is impossible for anyone except for the Lord Jesus to live a sinless life. But at the same time every person has the "ability" and that is why people are without excuse when they sin.

The fact that Jesus was "made like His brethren in all things" does not mean He ceased being God. He was God in the flesh, which means He was holy and righteous in all things. There is no other human being ever that had the wisdom and power of God.

EXACTLY! That is why it is ridiculous to say that the Lord Jesus said that He couldn't live a Christian life.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I don't agree with you that believers can be children of the night.

Christians can certainly walk in darkness or why would Paul say the following to Christians?:

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them" (Eph.5:11).​

We can also understand that it is indeed possible for a Christian to walk or live after the flesh because Paul tells Christians that if they live after the flesh they shall die:

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Ro.8:13).​

Why would Paul warn these Christians about living after the flesh if it was impossible for them to to do such a thing?

The "death" spoken of here is in regard to the "life" which Paul speaks of here:, that "we should also walk in newness of life" (Ro.6:4) so that "the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh" (2 Cor.4:11). So if a Christian lives a self-centered life any newness of life which they once had will die or cease to exist.

It is a fact that Peter walked in darkness or after the flesh because Paul said this about him:

"But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?" (Gal.2:11-14).​

Are you willing to argue that Peter always walked after the Spirit despite what Paul said about his actions in that passage?
 

marhig

Well-known member
Every Christian on the planet should be made to read the following post!



Thank you so much Pastor Hill!

You have no idea how big an impact this single article had on my life!

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!


Here's a link to the thread that the post was originally posted on. The discussion there is worth reading as well!

Resting in Him,
Clete
Loving God with all your heart is the answer, but with that should also come to love your neighbour as yourself. As it's on these two commandments that hang all the law and the prophets.

And those who truly love God with all their heart, will live by his will because they love and reverence him.

Without God, we can't do anything. With him nothing is impossible through true faith and God's grace. If we have faith, and trust in God, and truly follow Jesus, then we can overcome the world through Christ by the power of the Spirit.
 

marhig

Well-known member
Can you please help me find the Scriptures where the Lord Jesus said that He could not live the Christian life?

I don't think that is the meaning of the Lord's words when He said “the Son can do nothing of Himself.”

Instead, I believe that His words here are referring to what He said in the following two verses:

"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me" (Jn.6:38).​

"I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (Jn.5:30).​

I find it very strange that a Christian would say that the Lord Jesus couldn't live the Christian life.
I don't! It's the truth, the Lord Jesus couldn't do anything without the father. He said, as he prayed to the father in John 17, "you have given me power over all flesh" the father gave him the power, and he also said that without him he could do nothing.

And neither can we!
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Loving God with all your heart is the answer, but with that should also come to love your neighbour as yourself. As it's on these two commandments that hang all the law and the prophets.
Okay, fine. I can agree with that but do NOT do so because the Law says so!

And those who truly love God with all their heart, will live by his will because they love and reverence him.
Not because the laws says so they won't nor will it be because of believing "really hard" or by self-disipline or by following some set of rules.

Under grace there is but one rule and one rule only...

DO NOT PLACE YOURSELF UNDER A LIST OF RULES!!!!

Colossians 2:20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.​

Without God, we can't do anything. With him nothing is impossible through true faith and God's grace. If we have faith, and trust in God, and truly follow Jesus, then we can overcome the world through Christ by the power of the Spirit.
This sort of misses the point of Pastor Hill's sermon. It isn't that we can overcome the world, it's that we have already overcome the world - IN HIM. Christians spend their whole lives running after that which is within arm's reach; trying to get what they already pocess; trying to acheive that which has already been acccomplished. You are complete in Him having both died and been resurected with Him. Now it is no longer you live but He lives His life in and through you. There is nothing left to add.

See?

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I don't! It's the truth, the Lord Jesus couldn't do anything without the father. He said, as he prayed to the father in John 17, "you have given me power over all flesh" the father gave him the power, and he also said that without him he could do nothing.

Everything the Lord Jesus was doing when He came to the earth was to do the will of the Father and in order to do that the Father gave Him the power over all flesh.
 

marhig

Well-known member
Okay, fine. I can agree with that but do NOT do so because the Law says so!


Not because the laws says so they won't nor will it be because of believing "really hard" or by self-disipline or by following some set of rules.

Under grace there is but one rule and one rule only...

DO NOT PLACE YOURSELF UNDER A LIST OF RULES!!!!

Colossians 2:20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.​


This sort of misses the point of Pastor Hill's sermon. It isn't that we can overcome the world, it's that we have already overcome the world - IN HIM. Christians spend their whole lives running after that which is within arm's reach; trying to get what they already pocess; trying to acheive that which has already been acccomplished. You are complete in Him having both died and been resurected with Him. Now it is no longer you live but He lives His life in and through you. There is nothing left to add.

See?

Resting in Him,
Clete
Clete, the only way that we can overcome the world, is to die to self through Christ by the power of the spirit. We cannot keep on loving the world and living by the lusts of the flesh and truly follow Jesus, we should be dead to our old life and dying daily being put to death by the Spirit and turning from sin and this world. There's no "it's already done for us" Jesus didn't do it all for us, he showed us the way, he led by example. We wouldn't need an example to follow if it was already done for us. It says in the Bible that we are to walk as Jesus walked thus we have to live it out. We are to be doers of the word and not hearers only.

But, we cannot do anything without the father, we would be blind, deaf and dumb without him and Christ Jesus has come to open our eyes and ears to the truth, if we are willing to listen and let him in to our hearts. And if we do, we will live our lives to please the living God, and live according to his will, not our own and truly follow Jesus. We will listen to our conscience and turn from sin and obey God as he teaches and guides us by the Spirit of truth.

And I don't love God because of the laws, you can't make someone love, I love God from my heart because I love him, and I know that he has blessed me, and I still can't believe that he had mercy on me, I'm nothing yet I know he is with me, because he is helping me to overcome daily which is something I could never do without him and his love fills my heart and it's more precious than anything that this world has to offer. I don't care for worldly wealth, or building up in the world, I'm just happy to get by and I leave my life in God's hands and trust in him. I care more about bringing the truth to others rather than living in the world and loving the ways of it. nothing can compare to the love of God, and nothing can compare to the peace that fills my heart. I'm truly blessed.
 
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marhig

Well-known member
Everything the Lord Jesus was doing when He came to the earth was to do the will of the Father and in order to do that the Father gave Him the power over all flesh.
It's because Christ Jesus lived by the will of the father that the father gave him power over all flesh, because the Lord Jesus always did what pleased the father so the father never left him alone and he was always with him.

John 8

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

And the Lord Jesus had a choice, he also had his own will but he denied it to live by the father's will, to bare witness to the truth and bring us the gospel hoping to save as many as would listen, believe, repent and turn to God.
 
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Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Clete, the only way that we can overcome the world, is to die to self through Christ by the power of the spirit. We cannot keep on loving the world and living by the lusts of the flesh and truly follow Jesus, we should be dead to our old life and dying daily being put to death by the Spirit and turning from sin and this world. There's no "it's already done for us" Jesus didn't do it all for us, he showed us the way, he led by example. We wouldn't need an example to follow if it was already done for us. It says in the Bible that we are to walk as Jesus walked thus we have to live it out. We are to be doers of the word and not hearers only.

But, we cannot do anything without the father, we would be blind, deaf and dumb without him and Christ Jesus has come to open our eyes and ears to the truth, if we are willing to listen and let him in to our hearts. And if we do, we will live our lives to please the living God, and live according to his will, not our own and truly follow Jesus. We will listen to our conscience and turn from sin and obey God as he teaches and guides us by the Spirit of truth.

And I don't love God because of the laws, you can't make someone love, I love God from my heart because I love him, and I know that he has blessed me, and I still can't believe that he had mercy on me, I'm nothing yet I know he is with me, because he is helping me to overcome daily which is something I could never do without him and his love fills my heart and it's more precious than anything that this world has to offer. I don't care for worldly wealth, or building up in the world, I'm just happy to get by and I leave my life in God's hands and trust in him. I care more about bringing the truth to others rather than living in the world and loving the ways of it. nothing can compare to the love of God, and nothing can compare to the peace that fills my heart. I'm truly blessed.

To the extent to which you try is the extent to which you have failed to die to self. God is not interested in "helping" you accomplish that which only He can do. How much "help" does a dead man need? You are wanting God to help you "overcome daily". Your bible tells you, however, that you are complete in Him. There is nothing more to overcome.

It is true that we still must contend with the flesh, which has not yet been redeemed but it is not accomplished by our effort. Paul says this explicitly in Romans 7 & 8...

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Colossians 2:6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.​

Don't just skim over those passages. Be sure to actually read them through. They express the "how to" part of Paul's gospel. It isn't about trying to be better! You cannot be better. In the flesh, we are hopeless, in the Spirit we are complete! Either way, there is no "better" to be attained. To try to be better is to resurrect the flesh and to not see yourself in Him. Our job is not to try to be better people, it is to acknowledge that God is good and we are not and that it is His righteousness that has been imputed to us by faith. We are to rest on the biblical fact that it is no longer we who live but Christ who lives in us and that the life we now live in the flesh is lived not by effort but by faith.

If this sounds like I'm advocating a fruitless Christian life, the implication of that would be that we can produce more fruit than can Christ. On the contrary, what I am advocating is that we get out of Christ's way. We do that by simply believing and resting in the fact that He has done what only He could do and in so resting, we allow Him do the work that only He can do. The result will be fruit salad!

It's all 100% Christ and 100% by faith.


Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Danoh

New member
The Lord Jesus' own human will was responsible for Him being able to do the will of the Father. After all, He said that He came to DO the will of the Father:

"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me" (Jn.6:38).​

Do you deny that it was the Lord Jesus' own will which resulted in Him doing the will of the Father?

If you cannot deny that then that proves that the Lord Jesus was able by Himself to live a Christian life.

Not that I agree with everything else you said, but on the above, you are right.

He CHOSE to humble Himself to the Father's will over His Own.

By His Own will.

Philippians 2:4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Even as a child, He had knowingly chosen to submit His will to that of The Father's...

Luke 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

Elsewhere we read of this also...

Hebrews 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

And so on...

Acts 17:11,12.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
To the extent to which you try is the extent to which you have failed to die to self. God is not interested in "helping" you accomplish that which only He can do. How much "help" does a dead man need? You are wanting God to help you "overcome daily". Your bible tells you, however, that you are complete in Him. There is nothing more to overcome.

It is true that we still must contend with the flesh, which has not yet been redeemed but it is not accomplished by our effort. Paul says this explicitly in Romans 7 & 8...

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Colossians 2:6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.​

Don't just skim over those passages. Be sure to actually read them through. They express the "how to" part of Paul's gospel. It isn't about trying to be better! You cannot be better. In the flesh, we are hopeless, in the Spirit we are complete! Either way, there is no "better" to be attained. To try to be better is to resurrect the flesh and to not see yourself in Him. Our job is not to try to be better people, it is to acknowledge that God is good and we are not and that it is His righteousness that has been imputed to us by faith. We are to rest on the biblical fact that it is no longer we who live but Christ who lives in us and that the life we now live in the flesh is lived not by effort but by faith.

If this sounds like I'm advocating a fruitless Christian life, the implication of that would be that we can produce more fruit than can Christ. On the contrary, what I am advocating is that we get out of Christ's way. We do that by simply believing and resting in the fact that He has done what only He could do and in so resting, we allow Him do the work that only He can do. The result will be fruit salad!

It's all 100% Christ and 100% by faith.


Resting in Him,
Clete

This :thumb:
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
To the extent to which you try is the extent to which you have failed to die to self. God is not interested in "helping" you accomplish that which only He can do. How much "help" does a dead man need? You are wanting God to help you "overcome daily". Your bible tells you, however, that you are complete in Him. There is nothing more to overcome.

It is true that we still must contend with the flesh, which has not yet been redeemed but it is not accomplished by our effort. Paul says this explicitly in Romans 7 & 8...

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Colossians 2:6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.​

Don't just skim over those passages. Be sure to actually read them through. They express the "how to" part of Paul's gospel. It isn't about trying to be better! You cannot be better. In the flesh, we are hopeless, in the Spirit we are complete! Either way, there is no "better" to be attained. To try to be better is to resurrect the flesh and to not see yourself in Him. Our job is not to try to be better people, it is to acknowledge that God is good and we are not and that it is His righteousness that has been imputed to us by faith. We are to rest on the biblical fact that it is no longer we who live but Christ who lives in us and that the life we now live in the flesh is lived not by effort but by faith.

If this sounds like I'm advocating a fruitless Christian life, the implication of that would be that we can produce more fruit than can Christ. On the contrary, what I am advocating is that we get out of Christ's way. We do that by simply believing and resting in the fact that He has done what only He could do and in so resting, we allow Him do the work that only He can do. The result will be fruit salad!

It's all 100% Christ and 100% by faith.


Resting in Him,
Clete

As usual, excellent expounding by BC(Brother Clete).
If this sounds like I'm advocating a fruitless Christian life, the implication of that would be that we can produce more fruit than can Christ. On the contrary, what I am advocating is that we get out of Christ's way. We do that by simply believing and resting in the fact that He has done what only He could do and in so resting, we allow Him do the work that only He can do. The result will be fruit salad!

It's all 100% Christ and 100% by faith.

The cross of the Lord Jesus Christ is "I" "crossed out"....+ See it?

The Lord Jesus Christ is best magnified, when "I" stay in the background. Per Romans 15:4 KJV- a "learning lesson:"

1. The 5 "I"'s of guess who:?

Isaiah 14 KJV
12 How art thou fallen from heaven,O Lucifer, son of the morning!how art thou cut down to the ground,which didst weaken the nations!13 For thou hast said in thine heart,I will ascend into heaven,I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation,in the sides of the north:14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;I will be like the most High.

2. Not only is our salvation/justification of the Lord, but so too is our sanctification, our "walk." To wit: one of the reasons, when you "think on these things"(Philippians 4:8,Luke 2:19 KJV), for the cross, the LORD God chose, to offer His only begotten Son, as the satisfactory sacrifice, our propitiation? It is physically impossible to crucify yourself, and "un crucify" yourself.Thus, someone else has to crucify/un-crucify you.
_______________


http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-s-children-of-the-devil-Cain-Jr-s-What-sins
 
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Jacob

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What about the assertion that you cannot live the Christian life it has to be Christ who lives His life in you? Heresy?
 

Clete

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What about the assertion that you cannot live the Christian life it has to be Christ who lives His life in you? Heresy?

How can that possibly be heresy?

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.​

Did you bother to read the Pastor Hill's sermon in the opening post?
 
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