You must be saved to believe the Gospel !

[JudgeRightly]

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

AMEN!

This verse indicates that one is saved first, past tense, then called with an holy calling.

No, it doesn't.

God would not call an unholy person

The verse isn't talking about "unholy persons."

It's talking about those who are "in Him," not about those who are NOT "in Him."

It's talking about those who have been saved, past tense! Those who are saved are given a holy calling!

with an holy calling, which calling would include the Gospel.

The "holy calling" is the call to live like Christ! It has nothing to do with being saved, except that it ONLY applies to those who have ACCEPTED the gospel which was already shared with them!

As per 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, God calls people through the sharing of the Gospel.

As far as I'm aware, there is no way for any man (and especially not any calvinist) to know who, according to your position, is one of "the Elect," and therefore, sharing the gospel with anyone, according to your position, cannot guarantee that everyone who hears it will be saved. Which means, unless everyone whom you preach to ends up saved, your position, which is that only those who are called are saved, is false, because God calls through the preaching of the gospel!

 

[Right Divider]

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This verse indicates that one is saved first, past tense, then called with an holy calling. God would not call an unholy person with an holy calling, which calling would include the Gospel.

You're, AGAIN, abusing the scripture. You're trying to make those chronological and they are not intended that way. It does NOT say "saved THEN called". You are a spiritual retard.

 

[beloved57]

AMEN!



No, it doesn't.



The verse isn't talking about "unholy persons."

It's talking about those who are "in Him," not about those who are NOT "in Him."

It's talking about those who have been saved, past tense! Those who are saved are given a holy calling!



The "holy calling" is the call to live like Christ! It has nothing to do with being saved, except that it ONLY applies to those who have ACCEPTED the gospel which was already shared with them!

As per 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, God calls people through the sharing of the Gospel.

As far as I'm aware, there is no way for any man (and especially not any calvinist) to know who, according to your position, is one of "the Elect," and therefore, sharing the gospel with anyone, according to your position, cannot guarantee that everyone who hears it will be saved. Which means, unless everyone whom you preach to ends up saved, your position, which is that only those who are called are saved, is false, because God calls through the preaching of the gospel!

Lol, dont know why you saying amen !

 

[beloved57]

You're, AGAIN, abusing the scripture. You're trying to make those chronological and they are not intended that way. It does NOT say "saved THEN called". You are a spiritual retard.

Yes man is saved before called.

 

[Right Divider]

Yes man is saved before called.

That's not what it says. You have a bogus view of just about everything.

 

[beloved57]

That's not what it says. You have a bogus view of just about everything.

Thats exactly what it says. You dont and cant believe it.

 

[Right Divider]

Thats exactly what it says. You dont and cant believe it.

I believe what scripture ACTUALLY says; you believe whatever you want to believe it says. Big difference.

 

[marke]

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This verse indicates that one is saved first, past tense, then called with an holy calling. God would not call an unholy person with an holy calling, which calling would include the Gospel.

The unregenerate sinner first hears the Gospel preached and those who believe and receive the Gospel will be saved.
Romans 10
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

After a sinner believes and receives the Gospel he will be given the power to become a Christian.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

After the sinner gets saved by believing the Gospel he then is sealed by the Spirit of God.


Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

After the sinner is saved and joined to the Church of the Living God he is then called to serve the Lord.

Acts 16:10
And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

 

[beloved57]

Its only spiritually reasonable that a dead sinner, with no spiritual life, hearing, seeing, or understanding, will be made alive first, that is, saved out of spiritual death, and be given spiritual ears to hear the call of the Gospel to them. Otherwise man cannot and will not respond positively to the preaching of the Gospel, because he or she is remaining dead in sin.

 

[beloved57]

mark

The unregenerate sinner first hears the Gospel preached

Thats false. Jesus says that He that is of God hears the words of God Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Now he that is of God is not an unregenerate sinner dead in sin !

 

[JudgeRightly]

Lol, dont know why you saying amen !

Because I agree with some of what you're saying. Why else?

Why can't you ever respond to the rest of what I post?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Yes man is saved before called.

WRONG.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is a vehicle for God to call someone (as per 2 Thessalonians 2:14). They cannot be saved until they are preached the gospel to (as per Romans 10:14) because they cannot believe until AFTER they hear, and they cannot hear until after they are preached to.

 

[ok doser]

Because I agree with some of what you're saying. Why else?

Why can't you ever respond to the rest of what I post?

Amen!

 

[JudgeRightly]

Its only spiritually reasonable that a dead sinner, with no spiritual life, hearing, seeing, or understanding, will be made alive first, that is, saved out of spiritual death, and be given spiritual ears to hear the call of the Gospel to them.

Is not the gospel capable of bringing life to the dead?

Otherwise man cannot and will not respond positively to the preaching of the Gospel,

Chapter, verse.

because he or she is remaining dead in sin.

Chapter, verse.

mark

If you do not use the quote feature, people will not be notified that you are quoting their post.

Thats false. Jesus says that He that is of God hears the words of God Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

He was speaking DIRECTLY TO and ABOUT the Pharisees. Why do you apply willy-nilly things directed at specific people to the people that they are NOT directed at?

Now he that is of God is not an unregenerate sinner dead in sin!

Chapter verse.

 

[beloved57]

Because I agree with some of what you're saying. Why else?

Why can't you ever respond to the rest of what I post?

Its too time consuming and its not worth it. You must be saved to believe the Gospel since the Gospel is hidden to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3-4

 

[JudgeRightly]

Its too time consuming

Then why do you post long posts yourself? Seems like you're not really interested in discussion on a discussion board...

and its not worth it.

I assure you that it is.

You must be saved to believe the Gospel since the Gospel is hidden to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3-4

Are you saying that to imply that I am "lost"?

Because 1) you're wrong, I have been saved by the blood of Christ, in spite of not being a calvinist, and 2) as I've shown you countless times in the past few weeks, the ordo salutis is belief THEN salvation, as per Paul in Romans 10. You want it to be the other way around, contrary to scripture.

 

[beloved57]

Then why do you post long posts yourself? Seems like you're not really interested in discussion on a discussion board...



I assure you that it is.



Are you saying that to imply that I am "lost"?

Because 1) you're wrong, I have been saved by the blood of Christ, in spite of not being a calvinist, and 2) as I've shown you countless times in the past few weeks, the ordo salutis is belief THEN salvation, as per Paul in Romans 10. You want it to be the other way around, contrary to scripture.

To discuss them which you never do ! I put a lot of time into them, you dismiss them quickly, then want me to put a whole lot of time in your posts. Not ! Thats double work on me, and practically none for you.

You may say, it aint so, and thats the extent of the discussion of my post.

 

[JudgeRightly]

To discuss them which you never do !

I don't? What do you think I've been doing with the last hundred or so posts I've directed at you? What are they, chopped liver?

I put a lot of time into them,

And you don't think I do the same with mine?

you dismiss them quickly,

Well, no, I don't dismiss them.

I thoroughly deconstruct them, pointing out the flaws in your reasoning.

Which is rather easy to do, by the way, because your beliefs are as full of holes as swiss cheese.

then want me to put a whole lot of time in your posts.

I just want you to respond honestly and address the points I bring up, but you never do, instead you ignore what I say (and what others say) more often than not.

Not ! Thats double work on me, and practically none for you.

Like I said, your posts are full of holes in your reasoning, which makes them very easy to dismantle.

You may say, it aint so, and thats the extent of the discussion of my post.

If you'd invest the time into considering what I'm saying, I guarantee I will do my best to not waste your time.

 

[beloved57]

I don't? What do you think I've been doing with the last hundred or so posts I've directed at you? What are they, chopped liver?



And you don't think I do the same with mine?



Well, no, I don't dismiss them.

I thoroughly deconstruct them, pointing out the flaws in your reasoning.

Which is rather easy to do, by the way, because your beliefs are as full of holes as swiss cheese.



I just want you to respond honestly and address the points I bring up, but you never do, instead you ignore what I say (and what others say) more often than not.



Like I said, your posts are full of holes in your reasoning, which makes them very easy to dismantle.



If you'd invest the time into considering what I'm saying, I guarantee I will do my best to not waste your time.

You havent been discussing. You respond, I acknowledged that, but you dont discuss ! Im not making threads to evade them and discuss what you want me to discuss, thats counter productive. Its taking the focus away from what I want to discuss and making it about what you want me to discuss. Why dont you start a thread and put work into it for discussion !

 

[JudgeRightly]

You haven't been discussing.

Yes, I have.

You respond, I acknowledged that, but you don't discuss!

All of my replies to you have been discussing the points you try to make.

Im not making threads to evade them and discuss what you want me to discuss, that's counter productive.

It's counterproductive to point out flaws in someone's reasoning?

Its taking the focus away from what I want to discuss and making it about what you want me to discuss.

But you don't want to discuss.

You want to preach your beliefs and have Nanja affirm everything you say, and affirm everything Nanja says, because you two are two peas-in-a-pod Calvinists, spouting off calvinistic beliefs like the good little robots you think you are.

I'm over here, waving my hands trying to break you out of your trance by showing you that the points you're making don't line up with scripture, because if they don't, then they're not worth preaching to begin with!

Why don't you start a thread and put work into it for discussion !

Because, like you, I don't have time to do so.

And it's more fun to dismantle your arguments.