Jesus is God !
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
theos hen ho logos ="the Word was God"
Jehovah's Witnesses in their New World Translation perverts the meaning of this passage. In order to render John 1:1c "the Word was a god", the New World Translation must continue the charade of claiming to translate the anarthrous theos by "a god" everywhere in the New Testament.
Jehovah's Witnesses in their New World Translation perverts the meaning of this passage. In order to render John 1:1c "the Word was a god", the New World Translation must continue the charade of claiming to translate the anarthrous theos by "a god" everywhere in the New Testament.
keypurr
Well-known member
Consider that the spirit Christ spoke through the body of Jesus.
Christ is the exact copy of the Father, not Jesus. God is a spirit so Christ has to be a spirit also. But Christ took the form of man to die for us.
keypurr
Well-known member
I think they got it right. Early translations use the word IT to imply that the logos in John 1 is a spiritual being. Heb 1:3 and Heb 10:5 seem to agree.
keypurr
Well-known member
Not so, some, as myself, think God can give deity. Christ was given the fullness of his Father, that would make him a Created God. This would somewhat explaine why the words MOST HIGH GOD appear in scripture. Another thing to consider is the Greek word THEOS. I understand that theos does not mean the most high God, but I confess that I do not know Greek.
lifeisgood
New member
For those who are interested in learning more about the Trinity:
Holy Trinity Explained - Sam Shamoun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1a2mj2pyok
Holy Trinity Explained - Sam Shamoun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1a2mj2pyok
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Unitarian perspective.....
Unitarian perspective.....
John 1:1, reviewing the JW translation here.
Also see: God's logos
Jesus as the 'Agent' of God (linking a video series)
pj
Unitarian perspective.....
John 1:1, reviewing the JW translation here.
Also see: God's logos
Jesus as the 'Agent' of God (linking a video series)
pj
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
This is hard to prove, Jesus also being truly human, beyond any assumption of divine mystery of his dual nature synthesis. Otherwise any thing or being born of God or indwelt by God is more or less divine
Yes, Jesus is a representation and representative of God.
To be consistent with John's theology, Jesus never claims to God the Father, since God is Spirit, a seperate personality being greater then he. Jesus was truly showing them the Father by his own manners, character, religion, way of life. Jesus was revealing God, his spiritual nature thru his very life. We can do that also as sons of God, inspired and led of God.
pj
beloved57
Well-known member
Jesus is God by Authority of Apostolic Testimony !
There is No Faith in Christ apart from the Word of His Sent Apostles Jn 17:17-20
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
The Apostle John is one of them, and we will look at His Testimony confirming that Jesus, the Son is also the True God !
1 Jn 5:20
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This[Son Jesus Christ] is the true God, and eternal life.
Folks its no escaping the Testimony here that Jesus Christ the Son of God is also the True God, if we dont receive this Testimony its to our Eternal Peril !
There is No Faith in Christ apart from the Word of His Sent Apostles Jn 17:17-20
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
The Apostle John is one of them, and we will look at His Testimony confirming that Jesus, the Son is also the True God !
1 Jn 5:20
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This[Son Jesus Christ] is the true God, and eternal life.
Folks its no escaping the Testimony here that Jesus Christ the Son of God is also the True God, if we dont receive this Testimony its to our Eternal Peril !
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beloved57
Well-known member
Jesus is God by Authority of Apostolic Testimony !2
Jesus is God by Authority of Apostolic Testimony !2
1 Jn 5:20
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Now notice here in the text it says, That the Son, being Jesus Christ has come and given us [those who believe] an understanding to know Him that is True [God] !
First i will highligt a couple of points ! The Apostle says that as a result of Christ's coming it has resulted in understanding being given [to those who believe] and the word given here didómi is in the perfect tense, that which is given is permanently given once and for all, which is an Understanding. The word Understanding dianoia means:
understanding, intellect, mind, insight.
Its the same word the writer of Hebrews uses here Heb 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
And the Understanding given is so that we should know ginóskó means to experientially know
To come to exprientially know / recognise, become acquainted with, He that is True !
Jesus is God by Authority of Apostolic Testimony !2
1 Jn 5:20
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Now notice here in the text it says, That the Son, being Jesus Christ has come and given us [those who believe] an understanding to know Him that is True [God] !
First i will highligt a couple of points ! The Apostle says that as a result of Christ's coming it has resulted in understanding being given [to those who believe] and the word given here didómi is in the perfect tense, that which is given is permanently given once and for all, which is an Understanding. The word Understanding dianoia means:
understanding, intellect, mind, insight.
Its the same word the writer of Hebrews uses here Heb 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
And the Understanding given is so that we should know ginóskó means to experientially know
To come to exprientially know / recognise, become acquainted with, He that is True !
beloved57
Well-known member
Jesus is God by Authority of Apostolic Testimony !3
Now John stated to believers, that we know that the Son of God has come and has given us a Understanding to know Him that is True !
1 Jn 5:20
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Now if we apply the " Him that is True" to the Father, thats fine, no argument, but if to the Son, its fine and no argument because the same phrase is used in another John writing and is specifically applied to Jesus the Son, Rev 3:7
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
I argue that the " He that is True " is the same in both texts !
He that is True in 1 Jn 5:20 is Ton Alethino :
οἴδαμεν δὲ ὅτι ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ Θεοῦ ἥκει, καὶ δέδωκεν ἡμῖν διάνοιαν ἵνα γινώσκωμεν τὸν ἀληθινόν καί ἐσμεν ἐν τῷ ἀληθινῷ, ἐν τῷ υἱῷ αὐτοῦ Ἰησοῦ Χριστῷ οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ ἀληθινὸς Θεὸς, καὶ ἡ ζωὴ αἰώνιος
And in Rev 3:7 its Ho Alethinos :
Καὶ τῷ ἀγγέλῳ τῆς ἐν Φιλαδελφείᾳ ἐκκλησίας γράψον Τάδε λέγει ὁ ἅγιος ὁ ἀληθινός ὁ ἔχων τὴν κλεῖδα τοῦ Δαβίδ, ὁ ἀνοίγων καὶ οὐδεὶς κλείει, καὶ κλείει καὶ οὐδεὶς ἀνοίγει
So whether we choose to understand John in 1 Jn 5:20 to be referring to the Father as the "Him that is True" or the Son, both facts are True and both are qualified by the definite article to denote there is only ONE " He or Him that is True !
The Phrase therefore applies to the Father and the Son, this is what Apostolic Teaching makes known !
Now John stated to believers, that we know that the Son of God has come and has given us a Understanding to know Him that is True !
1 Jn 5:20
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Now if we apply the " Him that is True" to the Father, thats fine, no argument, but if to the Son, its fine and no argument because the same phrase is used in another John writing and is specifically applied to Jesus the Son, Rev 3:7
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
I argue that the " He that is True " is the same in both texts !
He that is True in 1 Jn 5:20 is Ton Alethino :
οἴδαμεν δὲ ὅτι ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ Θεοῦ ἥκει, καὶ δέδωκεν ἡμῖν διάνοιαν ἵνα γινώσκωμεν τὸν ἀληθινόν καί ἐσμεν ἐν τῷ ἀληθινῷ, ἐν τῷ υἱῷ αὐτοῦ Ἰησοῦ Χριστῷ οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ ἀληθινὸς Θεὸς, καὶ ἡ ζωὴ αἰώνιος
And in Rev 3:7 its Ho Alethinos :
Καὶ τῷ ἀγγέλῳ τῆς ἐν Φιλαδελφείᾳ ἐκκλησίας γράψον Τάδε λέγει ὁ ἅγιος ὁ ἀληθινός ὁ ἔχων τὴν κλεῖδα τοῦ Δαβίδ, ὁ ἀνοίγων καὶ οὐδεὶς κλείει, καὶ κλείει καὶ οὐδεὶς ἀνοίγει
So whether we choose to understand John in 1 Jn 5:20 to be referring to the Father as the "Him that is True" or the Son, both facts are True and both are qualified by the definite article to denote there is only ONE " He or Him that is True !
The Phrase therefore applies to the Father and the Son, this is what Apostolic Teaching makes known !
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beloved57
Well-known member
Jesus is God by Authority of Apostolic Testimony !4
1 Jn 5:20
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
The Apostolic testimony goes on to say of Believers, We are in Him that is True, which again can apply to either the Father or the Son, in fact the Father has Chosen all believers in His Son the Lord Jesus Christ before the foundation Eph 1:3-4
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
And yet the scripture teaches that the Church is in God the Father as well 1 Thess 1:1
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Now we are in Him that is True, whether the Father or the Son, Even" in his Son Jesus Christ"
THIS IS THE TRUE GOD AND ETERNAL LIFE !
1 Jn 5:20
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
The Apostolic testimony goes on to say of Believers, We are in Him that is True, which again can apply to either the Father or the Son, in fact the Father has Chosen all believers in His Son the Lord Jesus Christ before the foundation Eph 1:3-4
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
And yet the scripture teaches that the Church is in God the Father as well 1 Thess 1:1
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Now we are in Him that is True, whether the Father or the Son, Even" in his Son Jesus Christ"
THIS IS THE TRUE GOD AND ETERNAL LIFE !
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The Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Jesus.
The Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Jesus.
The Holy Spirit dwell in these people because they had gifts of the Holy Spirit which they practiced in Jesus' name.
However Jesus said to them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
If Jesus is God and therefore His Spirit is the Holy Spirit then Jesus would know these people who had the Holy Spirit and gifts of the Holy Spirit which they practiced in Jesus' name. However Jesus did not know these people.
This means that something was seriously lacking and incomplete. This meant that, although they had the Holy Spirit, they did not have the Spirit of Jesus, therefore they did not belong to Jesus, (i.e. they were none of his).
Although the Holy Spirit dwell in them because they had and practiced gifts of the Holy Spirit in Jesus' name, they did not belong to Jesus because the Spirit of Jesus did not dwell in them.
Do not fear the truth it will set you free.
The Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Jesus.
| 1. Matthews 7 KJV N.T. 22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. |
The Holy Spirit dwell in these people because they had gifts of the Holy Spirit which they practiced in Jesus' name.
However Jesus said to them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
If Jesus is God and therefore His Spirit is the Holy Spirit then Jesus would know these people who had the Holy Spirit and gifts of the Holy Spirit which they practiced in Jesus' name. However Jesus did not know these people.
This means that something was seriously lacking and incomplete. This meant that, although they had the Holy Spirit, they did not have the Spirit of Jesus, therefore they did not belong to Jesus, (i.e. they were none of his).
Although the Holy Spirit dwell in them because they had and practiced gifts of the Holy Spirit in Jesus' name, they did not belong to Jesus because the Spirit of Jesus did not dwell in them.
Do not fear the truth it will set you free.
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lifeisgood
New member
Mat. 7:22 — Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not Prophesied in Your Name? and in Your Name have cast out devils? and in Your Name done many wonderful works? (We have done all these things without taking into account You and what You did at the Cross of Calvary. Doing things is not the criterion. The criterion is Faith in Jesus Christ and His FINISHED work at the Cross of Calvary [Eph. 2:8–9, 13–18].)
Mat. 7:23 — And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you (once again, the only criterion is faith in Jesus Christ and Him Crucified [1 Cor. 1:23] and not any work of ours): depart from Me, you who work iniquity (a person only has access to God through Christ, and access to Christ only through the Cross, and access to the Cross only through a denial of self [Lk. 9:23-24]; any other message is judged by God as “iniquity,” and cannot be a part of Christ [1 Cor. 1:17]).
Mat. 7:24 — Therefore whosoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock (the “Rock” is Christ Jesus, and the foundation is the FINISHED work on the Cross of Calvary [Gal. 1:8–9]).
Mat. 7:23 — And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you (once again, the only criterion is faith in Jesus Christ and Him Crucified [1 Cor. 1:23] and not any work of ours): depart from Me, you who work iniquity (a person only has access to God through Christ, and access to Christ only through the Cross, and access to the Cross only through a denial of self [Lk. 9:23-24]; any other message is judged by God as “iniquity,” and cannot be a part of Christ [1 Cor. 1:17]).
Mat. 7:24 — Therefore whosoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock (the “Rock” is Christ Jesus, and the foundation is the FINISHED work on the Cross of Calvary [Gal. 1:8–9]).
Nanja
Well-known member
Amen! Very edifying 4 part study!
I believe also, that those to whom it has not been given John 3:27
to understand that Jesus Christ is God, that for them, it was His Desire
to intentionally blind them to the Truth for the purpose of Judgment!
John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world,
that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
For the opening of the eyes of understanding to Spiritual things of God
is only Promised to His Elect Saints Eph 1:18, His Sheep:
John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works:
that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
All Praise and Glory to Our God and Saviour Jesus Christ!
~~~~~
beloved57
Well-known member
Jesus is God by Authority of Apostolic Testimony !5
Now who is the The THIS here ? 1 Jn 5:20
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Well if we go by the immediate antecedent, it is the Son who is the THIS is the TRUE GOD, which would make Johns inspired Apostolic Testimony declaring the Son as the True God, and to make it even more certain its the Son, he adds that He[The Son] is that Eternal Life. For John had written earlier in his Epistle that the Son was that Eternal Life 1 Jn 1:2
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us)
This complements what he wrote in his Gospel also Jn 1:1-3 ! Hence its no doubt that the Apostolic Testimony of 1 Jn 5:20 is that the Son is the True God, along with the Father Jn 17:3 which definitely indicates the Trinity or the Plurality of the Godhead ! We reject this at our eternal peril !
Now who is the The THIS here ? 1 Jn 5:20
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Well if we go by the immediate antecedent, it is the Son who is the THIS is the TRUE GOD, which would make Johns inspired Apostolic Testimony declaring the Son as the True God, and to make it even more certain its the Son, he adds that He[The Son] is that Eternal Life. For John had written earlier in his Epistle that the Son was that Eternal Life 1 Jn 1:2
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us)
This complements what he wrote in his Gospel also Jn 1:1-3 ! Hence its no doubt that the Apostolic Testimony of 1 Jn 5:20 is that the Son is the True God, along with the Father Jn 17:3 which definitely indicates the Trinity or the Plurality of the Godhead ! We reject this at our eternal peril !
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How do you know you are his elect if you don't accept him?