beloved57
Well-known member
Jesus is the Son of God !
Jesus is God !
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
Jesus is the Son of God !
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
the divine Name
the divine Name
'Jehovah' is a mistranslation of 'YHWH'. The use of 'Jehovah' is a much later development, maintained by later traditions. While some other bible versions use the name 'Jehovah', some maintain the proper name 'Yahweh', while others use the title 'LORD' in caps as in the NKJV.
For more on the divine name YHWH go here.
pj
the divine Name
'Jehovah' is a mistranslation of 'YHWH'. The use of 'Jehovah' is a much later development, maintained by later traditions. While some other bible versions use the name 'Jehovah', some maintain the proper name 'Yahweh', while others use the title 'LORD' in caps as in the NKJV.
For more on the divine name YHWH go here.
pj
some churches have open books, meaning financial records. every church should allow every member access to all records and actions of the church. good luck finding one. but i know one. that's what should happen. very few are open to scrutiny. i guess all the churches i have attended believe Jesus Is God. i think. nobody ever talks about it at church. it is implied
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
God is Light (Consciousness), Spirit.......
God is Light (Consciousness), Spirit.......
It is implied as a religious belief, assumption, interpretation and nothing more, since it cannot be proved outside of a belief-system that sets its own criteria of evidence.
On purely spiritual grounds, only the infinite, incorporeal, invisible Spirit-energy-consciousness that is original, absolute and universal in its essence and being....is 'God'. I expound on this previously here.
Verses assuming to prove Jesus as God can be translated otherwise from a Unitarian perspective.
See: Biblical Unitarian
pj
God is Light (Consciousness), Spirit.......
It is implied as a religious belief, assumption, interpretation and nothing more, since it cannot be proved outside of a belief-system that sets its own criteria of evidence.
On purely spiritual grounds, only the infinite, incorporeal, invisible Spirit-energy-consciousness that is original, absolute and universal in its essence and being....is 'God'. I expound on this previously here.
Verses assuming to prove Jesus as God can be translated otherwise from a Unitarian perspective.
See: Biblical Unitarian
pj
keypurr
Well-known member
keypurr
Well-known member
beloved57
Well-known member
What scripture says that ?
you mean Jw's ? i'm talking today. in most every church. no real teaching, just fluff. Jehovas Witness are the worst. they try to control and intimidate. brainwash. it worked on you. you don't even realize it. you stayed too long. listened too much. repent
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Toss in the Easter Bunny too.
A Unitarian view is rational, logical and relationally sound in its own context. A person will gravitate to that view that seems more true to him, given the evidence or lack thereof. I find it odd that people feel the need to deify Jesus when it is unnecessary :idunno:
Only God is God.
Apart from a NT record, christian creed, orthodox theology or assumed Christology.....there is no reason to assume Jesus is God.
pj
keypurr
Well-known member
You posted that He is the son of God. That means his father is God. That brings us right back to John 17:3. The father is the ONLY true God.
beloved57
Well-known member
I know all that, but where is the scripture that says Jesus Christ is not God ?
except that, when I understood by reading The Bible that Jesus Is God, I concluded that on my own. based on my own experience. i did not rely on anyone's interpretation. i saw it myself. you find it odd. yes, why WOULD we deify Jesus. we didn't - God did. John 8:56-58 - 1:1,2 and 1:14. if i read that with NO prior knowledge of Jesus or God or The Bible. i would tell you that those verses mean exactly what i said. i don't believe that because the majority does, or to fit in. it' what The Bible says. if i was the ONLY one that believed that, i would still be sure of what it says. if every person on earth told me i was wrong, i would still tell you that Jesus Is God. i don't gain anything by saying that. i expect no extra salvation or bonus points for being more correct than others. what i say, either way, makes no difference in this world. yet we still say it. odd
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
light on John 8:58
light on John 8:58
We've addresses John 8:58 here, having 2 previous threads on this particular verse. When researched, this passage does not prove Jesus is God, but only points to his preexistence. Jesus never claimed to be Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh (the name given in Ex. 3:14).
More here.
Added more on John 8:58 here
pj
light on John 8:58
We've addresses John 8:58 here, having 2 previous threads on this particular verse. When researched, this passage does not prove Jesus is God, but only points to his preexistence. Jesus never claimed to be Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh (the name given in Ex. 3:14).
More here.
Added more on John 8:58 here
pj
Last edited:
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Universal One
Universal One
Dont forget.....only God is God. You can assume Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, etc. is God manifesting in a particular form or personality as a 'Son' of God, but that person is still a Son, offspring, generation, extension, manifestation, individualization of the Universal One, which we are all a part of. On this more pure energetic, spiritual, conscious level, all is God; God is all. The Universal One is indivisible in essence.
pj
Universal One
Dont forget.....only God is God. You can assume Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, etc. is God manifesting in a particular form or personality as a 'Son' of God, but that person is still a Son, offspring, generation, extension, manifestation, individualization of the Universal One, which we are all a part of. On this more pure energetic, spiritual, conscious level, all is God; God is all. The Universal One is indivisible in essence.
pj
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
theres more to it..........
theres more to it..........
Can a 'negative' be used to prove a 'positive'?
Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, a 'Son' of God. A son of someone cannot ever be that someone. A 'son' is always the offspring of an ancestral father. For a 'son' to be, a beginning or 'generation' of some kind had to occur, there 'existing' a 'relation'.
Relational distinctions are made within personality-relationships if we are considering actual distinct personalities. Otherwise you have a multipersonalitied God, which is philosophically possible since all personality originated from God, the Father of personality, and all personalities. The Urantia Papers expound further expound on this wonderful subject here (the personality of the Universal Father). In UB Christology, Jesus is a divine Son within the order of Creator Sons, and is the Creator and father/lord of our local universe, so is to us as 'God'....and a father/lord/savior....but the God of gods is always the Universal Father....his primacy is infinite and eternal. Jesus, our Creator-Son, is creator and lord over his own creation, but the Universal Father alone is the God of all and over all. This is one view from a higher cosmic perspective given by a group of celestials showing a hierarchy.
However,...if we reduce all to its original essence, of mind, energy, spirit,....only God is God, whether this essence includes personality or not. It just so happens that God does assume a personality, and is the source and father of personality and all personalities.
pj
theres more to it..........
Can a 'negative' be used to prove a 'positive'?
Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, a 'Son' of God. A son of someone cannot ever be that someone. A 'son' is always the offspring of an ancestral father. For a 'son' to be, a beginning or 'generation' of some kind had to occur, there 'existing' a 'relation'.
Relational distinctions are made within personality-relationships if we are considering actual distinct personalities. Otherwise you have a multipersonalitied God, which is philosophically possible since all personality originated from God, the Father of personality, and all personalities. The Urantia Papers expound further expound on this wonderful subject here (the personality of the Universal Father). In UB Christology, Jesus is a divine Son within the order of Creator Sons, and is the Creator and father/lord of our local universe, so is to us as 'God'....and a father/lord/savior....but the God of gods is always the Universal Father....his primacy is infinite and eternal. Jesus, our Creator-Son, is creator and lord over his own creation, but the Universal Father alone is the God of all and over all. This is one view from a higher cosmic perspective given by a group of celestials showing a hierarchy.
However,...if we reduce all to its original essence, of mind, energy, spirit,....only God is God, whether this essence includes personality or not. It just so happens that God does assume a personality, and is the source and father of personality and all personalities.
pj
keypurr
Well-known member
Consider that the scriptures do not say keypurr is not God either.
Jesus pre-existed His physical birth
A. Jesus actually created the universe in Gen 1:1 (John 1:3, Heb 1:2,8-12; Col 1:16-17)
B. Jesus existed before Abraham who died 2000 BC: John 8:56-58
C. Jesus existed before John the baptist who was six months older than Jesus: John 1:15 + Lk 1:24-26
D. Prophecies before his incarnation into Mary's womb:
He will be called "God with us": Isa 7:14
He will be called, "Mighty God, Eternal Father": Isa 9:6
A. Jesus actually created the universe in Gen 1:1 (John 1:3, Heb 1:2,8-12; Col 1:16-17)
B. Jesus existed before Abraham who died 2000 BC: John 8:56-58
C. Jesus existed before John the baptist who was six months older than Jesus: John 1:15 + Lk 1:24-26
D. Prophecies before his incarnation into Mary's womb:
He will be called "God with us": Isa 7:14
He will be called, "Mighty God, Eternal Father": Isa 9:6
keypurr
Well-known member
Not so, Jesus did not exist before he was born, you have been misled.
The spiritual son Christ existed IN Jesus, Christ was with God at the creation. Christ was God's first creation for he is the express image of the Father. He is a created super spiritual being. God created everything through his son Christ, not Jesus. Jesus was born a man. You do not see the difference between the man Jesus and the spirit Christ that was in him at his baptism.
Tradition will blind you from truth.
Jesus had glory with God before he came down, you have wrongly concluded. We don't have a temp-man God.