17 Year Old Shot And Killed By Cop

rocketman

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You put more emphasis on the safety of a man running around terrorizing people with a knife than the safety of the police officers who are trying to uphold the law.

And therefore.... you are a moron.

What's more is the fact that people get all in twist over this one tragedy yet dismiss the overwhelming homicide rate in Chicago, 455 so far this year. People love to pick the low hanging fruit of one police shooting but, willfully ignore the environment that these officers are working in, it is really absurd....and speaking of intellectual laziness. :nono:
 

Granite

New member
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"That's just Detroit"? or is Detroit the same blueprint being followed by Chicago? Stevie Wonder can see the parallel...

Hate to speak for Patrick but he may have been suggesting the issues haven't spilled over into the greater metro Detroit area. Just a guess.
 

Granite

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What's more is the fact that people get all in twist over this one tragedy yet dismiss the overwhelming homicide rate in Chicago, 455 so far this year. People love to pick the low hanging fruit of one police shooting but, willfully ignore the environment that these officers are working in, it is really absurd....and speaking of intellectual laziness. :nono:

It is not simply one police shooting. It's part of a larger pattern. So long as homicidal cops have enough citizen cheerleaders in this country we can't seriously expect any kind of reform.

It's gotten to the point where I'm starting to wonder if there could ever be a police shooting so egregious and so obviously an abuse of power that no one would attempt to defend it. So far apologists for cops seem to seriously believe most if not all shootings are justified. And the underlying principle seems to be "Well, they're cops."
 

patrick jane

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It is not simply one police shooting. It's part of a larger pattern. So long as homicidal cops have enough citizen cheerleaders in this country we can't seriously expect any kind of reform.

It's gotten to the point where I'm starting to wonder if there could ever be a police shooting so egregious and so obviously an abuse of power that no one would attempt to defend it. So far apologists for cops seem to seriously believe most if not all shootings are justified. And the underlying principle seems to be "Well, they're cops."

I think no matter how blatantly criminal the actions of an officer are shown and proven to be, there will always be those that see no wrong from police.
 

patrick jane

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Hate to speak for Patrick but he may have been suggesting the issues haven't spilled over into the greater metro Detroit area. Just a guess.

Yes, that's what I meant. They just showed it takes 58 minutes in the city of Detroit for a cop to respond. That likely isn't the same in the burbs
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
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It is not simply one police shooting. It's part of a larger pattern. So long as homicidal cops have enough citizen cheerleaders in this country we can't seriously expect any kind of reform.

It's gotten to the point where I'm starting to wonder if there could ever be a police shooting so egregious and so obviously an abuse of power that no one would attempt to defend it. So far apologists for cops seem to seriously believe most if not all shootings are justified. And the underlying principle seems to be "Well, they're cops."

do you think unions are protecting bad cops?
 

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
It is not simply one police shooting. It's part of a larger pattern. So long as homicidal cops have enough citizen cheerleaders in this country we can't seriously expect any kind of reform.

The estimation is that law enforcement collectively make around 20 million arrests per year and there have been 1073 police shootings in 2015. I do not have the number of those shootings that was justified but, my assumption is that the number that are not justified is quite small. I would agree that this man in Chicago was not posing an imminent threat and more than likely could have been subdued non-lethally, that I will agree. The officer involved is being charged, what else do you require? Chicago is a very dangerous place, the stats prove that out and expecting that cops working in that war zone not to be effected by it is absurd, it would effect anyone negatively, and it does not surprise me a bit that one cop out of an entire 12,500 officers in Chicago could go off the rails. It is unfortunate but, not a problem at large IMO, what is a problem is a more violent thug culture that has made law enforcement become more militant in it's tactics dealing with it. Cops want to go home at the end of the day as well, not end up on a slab for some violent thug.

It's gotten to the point where I'm starting to wonder if there could ever be a police shooting so egregious and so obviously an abuse of power that no one would attempt to defend it. So far apologists for cops seem to seriously believe most if not all shootings are justified. And the underlying principle seems to be "Well, they're cops."

Again, the officer involved is being charged, what more do you or anyone else require? I will not join you in besmirching the overwhelming majority of outstanding law enforcement officers for the very minuscule incidents where someone gets shot without justification. It is sad that it happens but, if you are a criminal, that is in possession of a weapon, posing any sort of threat to the officer or the citizenry, who is responsible for that criminal getting himself shot? Not the one sworn to protect & serve...the answer is don't be a violent criminal and you won't have harm come to you...simple as that.
 

Granite

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I would agree that this man in Chicago was not posing an imminent threat and more than likely could have been subdued non-lethally, that I will agree.

Glad we can agree on that.

The officer involved is being charged, what else do you require?

Well a conviction would be nice. Major reform would be nice. An end to cop thuggery, cover ups, lies, and abuse of power would be another encouraging benefit.

Chicago is a very dangerous place, the stats prove that out and expecting that cops working in that war zone not to be effected by it is absurd, it would effect anyone negatively, and it does not surprise me a bit that one cop out of an entire 12,500 officers in Chicago could go off the rails.

It's this war zone mentality that leads to the militarization of law enforcement and many of the problems we see with regularity. When the police decide they're at war with the public, anything goes and we can expect them to act with impunity and do as they please. The Chicago PD lied, destroyed evidence, misrepresented McDonald, and murdered him because they fully expected to get away with it. Given the current climate this was (unfortunately) not an unreasonable expectation.

It is unfortunate but, not a problem at large IMO, what is a problem is a more violent thug culture that has made law enforcement become more militant in it's tactics dealing with it.

I'd trace these abuses back to the so-called war on drugs, when police were essentially encouraged to declare war on the public at large, with the results we see. When they stopped being peacekeepers and became law enforcers everything changed. A combative, antagonist approach to the public, as opposed to placing a premium on ensuring public safety, totally alters the dynamic between Joe Blow and the police.

Cops want to go home at the end of the day as well, not end up on a slab for some violent thug.

"Dangerous job is dangerous" excuses absolutely nothing.

Again, the officer involved is being charged, what more do you or anyone else require?

Yes: One murderous cop may or may not get away with it. Let's throw a parade. Sorry, but that's nowhere near good enough. Greater civilian oversight over police use of force, the blue wall of silence, better protection for whistleblowers--much, much more remains.

I will not join you in besmirching the overwhelming majority of outstanding law enforcement officers for the very minuscule incident's where someone gets shot without justification.

The good cop fallacy. Yes, there are good guys who are cops (I know some of them). But they aid and abet the bad ones, if only with their silence.

It is sad that it happens but, if you are a criminal, that is in possession of a weapon, posing any sort of threat to the officer or the citizenry, who is responsible for that criminal getting himself shot?

Was McDonald's shooting justified or not?

Not the one sworn to protect & serve...the answer is don't be a violent criminal and you won't have harm come to you...simple as that.

We're not just talking about "violent criminals," at least I'm not. Was Tamir Rice a "violent criminal"? Was Eric Garner a "violent criminal"? Was Autumn Steele?

Or try this on for size: If you don't want harm to come to you, don't be a cop.
 

gcthomas

New member
The estimation is that law enforcement collectively make around 20 million arrests per year and there have been 1073 police shootings in 2015.

What is it about the US that makes it so dangerous?

The US has had 114 cops die on active duty so far this year, in the UK, you'd have to add up all the deaths over the entire country for over 15 years for the equivalent death rate for population.

Why have you all allowed your nation to be so dangerous and weaponised?

We've had one policeman killed (run over in this case) over the last two years, none killed with a weapon since 2012, and none stabbed to death since 2007 - do you think the restrictions on handguns and knives might have had some effect on improving the safety of cops? Or maybe our coppers are less confrontational and better skilled at de-escalating volatile situation?
 

rocketman

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Well a conviction would be nice. Major reform would be nice. An end to cop thuggery, cover ups, lies, and abuse of power would be another encouraging benefit.

Major Reform? How about leadership from the top down that does not incite social disorder? How about a society that supports officers and expects a no tolerance policy for violent criminals? The only abuse I see is a minority opinion that police are the problem, instead of a culture that makes excuses for bad behavior.

It's this war zone mentality that leads to the militarization of law enforcement and many of the problems we see with regularity. When the police decide they're at war with the public, anything goes and we can expect them to act with impunity and do as they please. The Chicago PD lied, destroyed evidence, misrepresented McDonald, and murdered him because they fully expected to get away with it. Given the current climate this was (unfortunately) not an unreasonable expectation.

I guess your idea of a war zone & mine are different but, given that there have been 2725 shootings, 456 deaths in Chicago alone this year, I believe "war zone" identifies Chicago quite accurately. Incidentally the police are not at war with the public but, the criminal element that reside amongst the public. McDonald has been charged for his crime, you can join the protest with the rest of the disingenuous in Chicago that want to highlight one police shooting of a black man while ignoring the 456 homicides 80.2% of which are black males shooting other black males... your outrage is sorely misplaced.

http://heyjackass.com


I'd trace these abuses back to the so-called war on drugs, when police were essentially encouraged to declare war on the public at large, with the results we see. When they stopped being peacekeepers and became law enforcers everything changed. A combative, antagonist approach to the public, as opposed to placing a premium on ensuring public safety, totally alters the dynamic between Joe Blow and the police.

So, I assume you are asserting that thugs make up "the public at large"? This is where we part ways...the way I see it, thugs, especially violent thugs, have no expectation that their thuggery will not end in injury or death to them. The police are protect the law abiding public, the thug sporting a weapon, or show willingness to assault the officer has no expectation of being protected nor should he. I personally have never been roughed up by a cop but, then again I show the man the respect due...maybe that is the problem, respect.


"Dangerous job is dangerous" excuses absolutely nothing.

Changes everything, including how you protect yourself & react when you face danger... You have unrealistic expectations IMO.

Yes: One murderous cop may or may not get away with it. Let's throw a parade. Sorry, but that's nowhere near good enough. Greater civilian oversight over police use of force, the blue wall of silence, better protection for whistleblowers--much, much more remains.

Sorry, don't see it...I say don't be a thug, show the man the respect due his position (i.e. respect authority) and you have a overwhelming chance that your interface with law enforcement will go smoothly and you may just find that the officer will show you the same respect. Amazing how civility works that way...

The good cop fallacy. Yes, there are good guys who are cops (I know some of them). But they aid and abet the bad ones, if only with their silence.

The 99% of good cops are aiding and abetting? You have proof that this is the case? Do I believe that they are not quick to indict their own without the proof being overwhelmingly conclusive? Yes but, that is hardly aiding and abetting, and is understandable with thug protecters so willing to convict them on appearance rather than facts.

Was McDonald's shooting justified or not?

I believe it was not but, he will have his day in court to explain it...if he can.

We're not just talking about "violent criminals," at least I'm not.

I guess that would depend on your definition.

Was Tamir Rice a "violent criminal"?

Unfortunate incident, something similar happened locally, and I live in a relatively small town. Kids playing laser tag at the local high school after dark, police were dispatched that there were "people at the school with guns", officers arrived searching the grounds with weapons drawn, cop comes around the corner to a person pointing a gun with a red laser at him, kid was shot dead. It was terrible thing but, when an officer is faced with a potential life & death situation mistakes like this can be made, it seems that this was the case with Tamir as well.

Was Eric Garner a "violent criminal"?

Actually Yes he was, he was asked to submit to authority multiple times before he assaulted the officer then the incident escalated into a physical altercation. Had Garner obeyed authority, not resisted the officer this would not have ended the way it did...Garner is responsible for his own death as I see it.

Was Autumn Steele?

Another unfortunate case where an officer trying to protect himself from the family dog accidentally shot the owner. I know, I know... he should have just stood there and allowed himself to get mauled but, the sane all agree that while unfortunate, the officer was justified in protecting himself from attack, and the unfortunate result from doing so was unintentional.

I wonder if she would have been shot if she restrained the dog as the officer asked before the officer was forced to protect himself from it. :think:

Or try this on for size: If you don't want harm to come to you, don't be a cop.

Sorry, doesn't fit...How about this: Don't be a thug, respect authority, and your interface with law enforcement will not end up in injury or death to you.

Yep! You guessed it, I could not give a damn whether a thug gets injured or killed for their thuggery, and I hail the men & women that put their lives on the line to protect & serve the innocent, law abiding citizenry.
 

patrick jane

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What's more is the fact that people get all in twist over this one tragedy yet dismiss the overwhelming homicide rate in Chicago, 455 so far this year. People love to pick the low hanging fruit of one police shooting but, willfully ignore the environment that these officers are working in, it is really absurd....and speaking of intellectual laziness. :nono:

Who is dismissing 456 other murders ?
 

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
No Rocket, combining statistics to show a war zone in Chicago takes away from each individual incident. McDonald was murdered and the officer is charged with murder, that's justice.

No argument from me on that but, the stats prove how violent the culture in Chicago is... plain & simple. The overwhelming majority of American cities & towns do not see this sort of violent crime. The stats point more to the culture in Chicago & poor leadership in control of cities like Chicago that are the problem...who runs Chicago? :think:
 

rocketman

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Hall of Fame
I always thought police are here to serve and protect

Thugs & criminals? or the citizens they terrorize? I think the cops serve and protect me quite well but, then again I am not a criminal.


not judge and convict. :think:

Nor does their job entail getting killed or injured at the hands of thugs...

Hint: I really don't give a rip if thugs get injured or killed in commission of their thuggery at the hands of cops or the citizenry...Don't be a thug and you can have an expectation of safety from both.
 

patrick jane

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Thugs & criminals? or the citizens they terrorize? I think the cops serve and protect me quite well but, then again I am not a criminal.




Nor does their job entail getting killed or injured at the hands of thugs...

Hint: I really don't give a rip if thugs get injured or killed in commission of their thuggery at the hands of cops or the citizenry...Don't be a thug and you can have an expectation of safety from both.

The officer that killed Lequan McDonald had 18 complaints from citizens, including brutality, excessive force and racial slurs. Guess you don't have to worry about cops like that.
 
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