Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

[Derf]

I thank God I wasn't a natural man.
Hearing something I believed changed me.
Thanks be to God for allowing me to change my mind, and my fate.
It was written..."No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:44)
I was drawn to God, and to His promises, and changed from a natural man to a sensible one.
One sensible enough to repent of sin and get baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins.
One sensible enough to crucify the flesh and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
Praise be to God.

No one gets to God except through Jesus. And when he was lifted up, he drew all men to himself. We should be careful not to insert another salvation barrier where none exists, as B57 does, where hold the keys to the kingdom, but don't allow others to enter.

 

[Hoping]

No one gets to God except through Jesus. And when he was lifted up, he drew all men to himself. We should be careful not to insert another salvation barrier where none exists, as B57 does, where hold the keys to the kingdom, but don't allow others to enter.

The greatest question for that doctrine is...who can be sure they are actually the "chosen"?
Is there some proof?
If some capricious god picks and chooses whoever he in inclined to, regardless of that choices actions on earth, how many murderers and thieves are going to heaven while holy people perish?
It is ludicrous.

 

[marke]

The greatest question for that doctrine is...who can be sure they are actually the "chosen"?
Is there some proof?
If some capricious god picks and chooses whoever he in inclined to, regardless of that choices actions on earth, how many murderers and thieves are going to heaven while holy people perish?
It is ludicrous.

If there are reasons to believe a person's salvation may not be real then here is some advice for them as to how to make sure their calling and election are real:

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

 

[Hoping]

If there are reasons to believe a person's salvation may not be real then here is some advice for them as to how to make sure their calling and election are real:

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

"These things" were in 4 of the prior verses...
"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I rejoice in the promises in God's word!!!

 

[beloved57]

Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?​

Hmmm ... I would say that man has a natural innate desire to understand the 'great mystery of being'. And most would call the source/solution to that mystery, "God". So in that sense mankind certainly has the desire to "seek God".

But do we have the ability?

To seek, sure. But to resolve the mystery? I would say, no. I just don't think we humans possess the capacity to grasp the existence and nature of what we call "God". It is simply beyond us. And as a result, the best we can do is choose to trust in the source of that great mystery: in it's wisdom and benevolence.

At least that's what I'm choosing to do.

Man doesnt seek after God nor understand Him according to scripture Rom 3:11, now this is speaking of the True God of Israel. No doubt man seeks some kind of higher power/god for it is written Prov 14:12


There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

I believe thats speaking of the natural mans religious pursuits !

 

[Clete]

If God refuses to allow millions of sinners any possibility of getting saved then He is not a merciful God in Calvinist theology.

It's far far worse than that, marke!

It is NOT that God doesn't allow sinners to get saved. The concept of someone allowing something to happen or not presupposes that its possible for it to happen in the first place. God doesn't merely allow sin, He ordains it. He doesn't merely disallow some sinners to become saved, He actively and ARBITRARILY causes their condemnation! It isn't merely their lack of repentance but their sin that God ordains, predestines and causes to take place.

“The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)​

​

“thieves and murderers, and other evildoers, are instruments of divine providence, being employed by the Lord himself to execute judgments which he has resolved to inflict.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 5)​

​

“We hold that God is the disposer and ruler of all things, –that from the remotest eternity, according to his own wisdom, He decreed what he was to do, and now by his power executes what he decreed. Hence we maintain, that by His providence, not heaven and earth and inanimate creatures only, but also the counsels and wills of men are so governed as to move exactly in the course which he has destined.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 8)​

​

“We cannot assign any reason for his bestowing mercy on his people, but just as it so pleases him, neither can we have any reason for his reprobating others but his will.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 11)​

​

"All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion Book 5, Chapter 21, paragraph 5)​

And don't be tempted to think these to be rare beliefs within Calvinist circles. They aren't. John Calvin's "Institutes of Christian Religion" is the very fountain head of Calvinism. This is precisely what they believe and I have yet to find a single solitary Calvinist who would voice disagreement with any of these statements from Calvin and many others like it.

Calvinism's god isn't merely unmerciful, it is unjust and outright evil.

Clete

 

[marke]

Man doesnt seek after God nor understand Him according to scripture Rom 3:11, now this is speaking of the True God of Israel. No doubt man seeks some kind of higher power/god for it is written Prov 14:12


There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

I believe thats speaking of the natural mans religious pursuits !

If God supposedly never gave most sinners any ability to seek God then why is God so angry with them for not seeking God?

 

[Clete]

If God supposedly never gave most sinners any ability to seek God then why is God so angry with them for not seeking God?

He won't answer you.

If he did, he'd tell you that part of God's immutability is God's impassibility. He is not happy now, angry later, sad next week and then happy again in the spring. All such talk of God being angry or saddened or pleased is all just a figure of speech. It's all anthropomorphic language used for the benefit of us poor stupid depraved and moronic human beings to give us a way of talking about God that we can understand.

This is just one of many reasons why their philosophy is unfalsifiable nonsense. It's a trump card designed to overcome any and every objection that appeals to a sense of justice or love or mercy or kindness or righteousness.

Imagine that!

A supposedly Christian doctrine that not only needs but actively employees a trump card against an appeal to righteousness!

How can anyone believe a word of it?

Clete

 

[marke]

He won't answer you.

If he did, he tell you that part of God's immutability is God's impassibility. He is not happy now, angry later, sad next week and then happy again in the spring. All such talk of God being angry or saddened or pleased is all just a figure of speech. It's all anthropomorphic language used for the benefit of us poor stupid depraved and moronic human beings to give a way of talking about God that we can understand.

This is just one of many reasons why their philosophy is unfalsifiable nonsense. It's a trump card designed to overcome any and every objection that appeals to a sense of justice or love or mercy or kindness or righteousness.

Imagine that!

A supposedly Christian doctrine that not only needs but actively employees a trump card against an appeal to righteousness!

How can anyone believe a word of it?

Clete

I visualize what Calvinists must think will happen: Thousands of them sitting around Jesus and joyfully glorify Him for His great wisdom, power, and mercy for sparing them while he burns their fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, neighbors, friends, and millions more in hell for not being spared.

 

[Clete]

I visualize what Calvinists must think will happen: Thousands of them sitting around Jesus and joyfully glorify Him for His great wisdom, power, and mercy for sparing them while he burns their fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, neighbors, friends, and millions more in hell for not being spared.

It is genuinely baffling to me how people can be so willfully blind. Justice is not a difficult concept!

Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect; For all His ways are justice, A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He.​

They are so blind in fact that even such plainly worded statements of God's justice do not move them an inch because they have redefined the word justice to mean ANYTHING their god does. If their god wants to hang you by your toes, light you on fire and poke you with needles just to see how long and loud you will scream before dying and FOR NO OTHER REASON, then that's justice in the mind of a Calvinist.

They will actually tell you right to your face that the god they worship is arbitrary and will act as though you're stupid for not accepting it as true. It is simply the most perverted and insidious doctrine in existence. Satanists will fare better on judgment day! At least they understand who God really is and hate Him for who He actually is! They know that they are evil and they call it evil and they actually want to be evil and want you to join them in evil for evil's sake. Calvinists, on the other hand, don't merely call evil good, they believe it IS good! They worship a god of injustice and believe his arbitrary actions to be the very definition of righteousness!

Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!​

Clete

 

[Hoping]

He won't answer you.

If he did, he'd tell you that part of God's immutability is God's impassibility. He is not happy now, angry later, sad next week and then happy again in the spring. All such talk of God being angry or saddened or pleased is all just a figure of speech. It's all anthropomorphic language used for the benefit of us poor stupid depraved and moronic human beings to give us a way of talking about God that we can understand.
This is just one of many reasons why their philosophy is unfalsifiable nonsense. It's a trump card designed to overcome any and every objection that appeals to a sense of justice or love or mercy or kindness or righteousness.
Imagine that!
A supposedly Christian doctrine that not only needs but actively employees a trump card against an appeal to righteousness!
How can anyone believe a word of it?
Clete

Guess what?
He did answer it.
It is written..."I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim 2:1-4)

 

[beloved57]

If God supposedly never gave most sinners any ability to seek God then why is God so angry with them for not seeking God?

Your question is senseless since when God gives a person a new birth by the Spirit, they can then seek the True God. If you have been paying attention, the scripture says the natural man doesnt seek God. Once a person is born again, they are no longer natural but spiritual.

 

[marke]

Your question is senseless since when God gives a person a new birth by the Spirit, they can then seek the True God. If you have been paying attention, the scripture says the natural man doesnt seek God. Once a person is born again, they are no longer natural but spiritual.

Calvinists have no idea why God created sinners with a supposed built-in inability to seek God to be saved. They must think God does not want those sinners to be saved because He intends to fry them in hell for His own pleasure for not getting saved.

 

[Hoping]

Your question is senseless since when God gives a person a new birth by the Spirit, they can then seek the True God. If you have been paying attention, the scripture says the natural man doesnt seek God. Once a person is born again, they are no longer natural but spiritual.

Thank God some men aren't naturally minded...unto death.
Can you provide an example of the naturally minded man?
One besides he still commits sin.

 

[Clete]

Your question is senseless since when God gives a person a new birth by the Spirit, they can then seek the True God. If you have been paying attention, the scripture says the natural man doesnt seek God. Once a person is born again, they are no longer natural but spiritual.

The question makes perfect sense, it is your doctrine which makes no sense!

Your doctrine teaches that sinners sin because God predestined that they would do so. According to Calvinism, anyone who goes to Hell doesn't do so because they failed to seek God but because God predestined that they would go to Hell. Going to Hell is the purpose of their existence, it is why God created them! There isn't anything they can do to escape their fate.

And so, I pose the question to you again....

Why is God angry at people for flawlessly fulfilling the destiny which He Himself set in place before time began?

Clete

 

[Clete]

Calvinists have no idea why God created sinners with a supposed built-in inability to seek God to be saved. They must think God does not want those sinners to be saved because He intends to fry them in hell for His own pleasure for not getting saved.

They do not believe that there is any reason why God sends some to Hell and others not, except that it pleases their god to do so. God's pleasure is THE ONLY reason ANYTHING happens.

“Therefore, those whom God passes over, he condemns; and this he does for no other reason than that he wills to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines for his own children.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christia/n Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1)​

​

“We cannot assign any reason for his bestowing mercy on his people, but just as it so pleases him, neither can we have any reason for his reprobating others but his will.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 11)​

 

[beloved57]

The question makes perfect sense, it is your doctrine which makes no sense!

Your doctrine teaches that sinners sin because God predestined that they would do so. According to Calvinism, anyone who goes to Hell doesn't do so because they failed to seek God but because God predestined that they would go to Hell. Going to Hell is the purpose of their existence, it is why God created them! There isn't anything they can do to escape their fate.

And so, I pose the question to you again....

Why is God angry at people for flawlessly fulfilling the destiny which He Himself set in place before time began?

Clete

You not paying attention still. Whats the title of the Thread ?

 

[Hoping]

You not paying attention still. Whats the title of the Thread ?

My answer to the OP is..."YES".
Thanks be to God.
In David's psalms which Paul quoted, (Ps 14, 53), David was talking about "the fool", not "all men".

 

[Clete]

You not paying attention still. Whats the title of the Thread ?

I've answered the question multiple times! It is therefore you who are not paying attention!

NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!!

Coward!

 

[beloved57]

I've answered the question multiple times! It is therefore you who are not paying attention!

NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!!

Coward!

The thread is about the natural man doesnt seek God, not the True God, nor does he understand the True God.