Evidence the Spacestation footage is also FAKED

Nazaroo

New member
It isn't authoritarianism to defer to experts in their respective fields for their opinions on matters pertaining to those fields.

Actually it is.

But since nobody in this thread has actually deferred to a named,
specific "expert" in aerodynamics who has actually made a claim
about the stability of shape and weight distribution of the reentry craft,
we'll have to wait to see what scientific evidence is produced.

I'll tell you actually what technology WOULD create a stable craft
that could maintain its orientation during freefall through an unpredictable
trajectory and uncontrollable wind and weather:

Stabilizing spinning flywheels.

Just like they propose are used in alien spacecraft.

Its trivial to stabilize a free-falling object in a Cartesian coordinate system,
if you have gyros and motors and spinning weights anchored to the craft.

The problem is.... the reentry craft of Apollo had no such equipment.

Neither shape nor weight distribution could guarantee a stable vertical position,
but stabilizers and internal rotors could easily have done so.

control-moment-gyroscope-main.jpg
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
Actually it is.

But since nobody in this thread has actually deferred to a named,
specific "expert" in aerodynamics who has actually made a claim
about the stability of shape and weight distribution of the reentry craft,
we'll have to wait to see what scientific evidence is produced.

I'll tell you actually what technology WOULD create a stable craft
that could maintain its orientation during freefall through an unpredictable
trajectory and uncontrollable wind and weather:

Stabilizing spinning flywheels.

Just like they propose are used in alien spacecraft.

Its trivial to stabilize a free-falling object in a Cartesian coordinate system,
if you have gyros and motors and spinning weights anchored to the craft.

The problem is.... the reentry craft of Apollo had no such equipment.

Neither shape nor weight distribution could guarantee a stable vertical position,
but stabilizers and internal rotors could easily have done so.

control-moment-gyroscope-main.jpg

You can look at this discussion of stability during reentry: Link
NASA and the Soviets had some discussions about reentry here: Link
Wikipedia has this brief discussion of the "Earth Landing System"

The Command Module's center of mass was offset a foot or so from the center of pressure (along the symmetry axis). This provided a rotational moment during reentry, angling the capsule and providing some lift (a lift to drag ratio of about 0.368[4]). The capsule was then steered by rotating the capsule using thrusters; when no steering was required, the capsule was spun slowly, and the lift effects cancelled out. This system greatly reduced the g-force experienced by the astronauts, permitted a reasonable amount of directional control and allowed the capsule's splashdown point to be targeted within a few miles.


And nicely detailed discussion can also be found here.

Interestingly, none of these sources agree with anything you have said.
 

Nazaroo

New member
The Command Module's center of mass was offset a foot or so from the center of pressure (along the symmetry axis). This provided a rotational moment during reentry, angling the capsule and providing some lift (a lift to drag ratio of about 0.368[4]).
Think about it.

This is a claim that extra stability was obtained by "slow" rotation
of the capsule.

Why "slow"? because a rapid rotation would have made the astronauts
dizzy and incapable of navigation, if they survived.

Note that any offsetting force due to asymmetry would have,
as claimed caused an angular acceleration (not a constant velocity),
thus the craft would have begun spinning from zero and kept on
accelerating in speed as it fell.

There were no special "thrusters" to slow down the spin,
and no powerful computer to calculate the compensating forces
to maintain a constant spin at a slow speed.
Remember that what NASA had available at the time were
the equivalent of Apple II+s and Commodore 64s, only running
at a 1/100th the calculating speed, because the larger mainframes
were still using vacuum tube technology.

Whether or not a "slow" rotation due to load imbalance produced
a "lift" (an inappropriate term here since the capsule is rotating its
orientation) is irrelevant to stabilizing the orientation of the craft.






...The capsule was then steered by rotating the capsule using thrusters;


The rotating of the capsule could not possibly "steer" the craft in any meaningful way. They already claimed it was being rotated
in a significant way by load imbalance
in conjunction with we must presuppose, an angled wind-blast from its
motion as it fell.

Remember that the "steering jets" were originally claimed to have been designed
to do very minor "steering" for the purpose of orienting the craft in deep space,
for docking. The thrusters were very tiny and meant to give very short
adjustment blasts, based on the pilots' visual cues for connecting the craft
to the lander.

There was no sophisticated "real time" mini-computer onboard to calculate
even simple docking trajectories. Instead the pilots docked the craft by sight,
and used physical rail-guides to complete the task.

There was certainly not any fuel supply to have constantly firing steering rockets,
to stabilize the rotation speed of the capsule, even if that could be shown
to be of any use.

One of the basic problems is that the craft (as suggested by the lying)
would have to rotate at significant speed to grant stabilization due to
angular momentum. But this in turn would render the astronauts
disoriented and useless, as well as rendering the view from the spaceports
unusable.

What we are reading here are probably notes from various proposals
which were made BEFORE any craft was designed, and which have been
dug out and used for propaganda purposes by idiots long after said 'designs'
were abandoned by scientists prior to Apollo.




...when no steering was required, the capsule was spun slowly, and the lift effects cancelled out.

When in the process would "no steering be required"?

What purpose could the capsule "spinning slowly" achieve?

What possible 'lift effects' could be applied to keeping the craft upright vertically?

This is pure Isaac Asimov science fiction at its best. (he was also a homosexual).


This system greatly reduced the g-force experienced by the astronauts, permitted a reasonable amount of directional control and allowed the capsule's splashdown point to be targeted within a few miles.

No "system" has actually been described.

What would be required would be what is called a 'negative feedback' system,
which would have to:

(1) have monitoring instrumentation which could give near-instantaneous readings of the orientation and angular velocity of the craft.

(2) have an analog supercomputer that could use the measurements
to calculate a lightning-rapid response and send commands to
appropriate rocket-jets.

(3) have a rocket system with a large amount of reserve fuel and
near-instantaneous on/off and a full spectrum of thrust settings,
all under near-instantaneous control of the computer system.

(4) have software that could calculate complex accelerations of
angular momentum, use instantaneous readings of orientation
and calculate thruster-corrections to make changes in rotation
for the purpose of altering the imaginary "lift" factors and
destabilization drift, and be able to calculate how much fuel,
how much force, and how much correction was needed to
create a 'stable' cycle of orientation fluctuations which would not
accidentally lock into a 'beating' or periodic swing that could
get out of control.

None of this even existed in 1969.

Scientists only began to take notice of complex negative feedback systems
in the 70s and 80s, and most of the research and analysis of
these systems was done long after Apollo.

In such an analog computer feedback network, pilots would be superfluous.


This pseudo-science nonsense and Historical Revisionism
can only be called priceless.
 

Nazaroo

New member
One of the basic problems is that the craft (as suggested by the lying)
would have to rotate at significant speed to grant stabilization due to
angular momentum. But this in turn would render the astronauts
disoriented and useless, as well as rendering the view from the spaceports
unusable.

The incredible LIE about a rotating capsule was invented
because it was already public knowledge that
NO STABILIZERS or GYROS were onboard the Command module.

Therefore the Command Module itself would have to act as
a 'stabilizing gyro' by rotating!

But typical stabilizers have to rotate a relative very high speeds
to actually exert enough force to stabilize an object in
3-dimensional space relative to a gravitational field and flight path.

Can anyone imagine that a capsule rotating slower than say
a laundry spin dryer would offer strong enough angular momentum
to stabilize a falling spacecraft?

Yes one could theoretically stabilize a craft by rotation,
say 3,600 RPM. What do you think that might do to the astronauts?
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
Think about it.

This is a claim that extra stability was obtained by "slow" rotation
of the capsule.

Why "slow"? because a rapid rotation would have made the astronauts
dizzy and incapable of navigation, if they survived.

Note that any offsetting force due to asymmetry would have,
as claimed caused an angular acceleration (not a constant velocity),
thus the craft would have begun spinning from zero and kept on
accelerating in speed as it fell.

There were no special "thrusters" to slow down the spin,
and no powerful computer to calculate the compensating forces
to maintain a constant spin at a slow speed.
Remember that what NASA had available at the time were
the equivalent of Apple II+s and Commodore 64s, only running
at a 1/100th the calculating speed, because the larger mainframes
were still using vacuum tube technology.

Whether or not a "slow" rotation due to load imbalance produced
a "lift" (an inappropriate term here since the capsule is rotating its
orientation) is irrelevant to stabilizing the orientation of the craft.








The rotating of the capsule could not possibly "steer" the craft in any meaningful way. They already claimed it was being rotated
in a significant way by load imbalance
in conjunction with we must presuppose, an angled wind-blast from its
motion as it fell.

Remember that the "steering jets" were originally claimed to have been designed
to do very minor "steering" for the purpose of orienting the craft in deep space,
for docking. The thrusters were very tiny and meant to give very short
adjustment blasts, based on the pilots' visual cues for connecting the craft
to the lander.

There was no sophisticated "real time" mini-computer onboard to calculate
even simple docking trajectories. Instead the pilots docked the craft by sight,
and used physical rail-guides to complete the task.

There was certainly not any fuel supply to have constantly firing steering rockets,
to stabilize the rotation speed of the capsule, even if that could be shown
to be of any use.

One of the basic problems is that the craft (as suggested by the lying)
would have to rotate at significant speed to grant stabilization due to
angular momentum. But this in turn would render the astronauts
disoriented and useless, as well as rendering the view from the spaceports
unusable.

What we are reading here are probably notes from various proposals
which were made BEFORE any craft was designed, and which have been
dug out and used for propaganda purposes by idiots long after said 'designs'
were abandoned by scientists prior to Apollo.





When in the process would "no steering be required"?

What purpose could the capsule "spinning slowly" achieve?

What possible 'lift effects' could be applied to keeping the craft upright vertically?

This is pure Isaac Asimov science fiction at its best. (he was also a homosexual).



No "system" has actually been described.

What would be required would be what is called a 'negative feedback' system,
which would have to:

(1) have monitoring instrumentation which could give near-instantaneous readings of the orientation and angular velocity of the craft.

(2) have an analog supercomputer that could use the measurements
to calculate a lightning-rapid response and send commands to
appropriate rocket-jets.

(3) have a rocket system with a large amount of reserve fuel and
near-instantaneous on/off and a full spectrum of thrust settings,
all under near-instantaneous control of the computer system.

(4) have software that could calculate complex accelerations of
angular momentum, use instantaneous readings of orientation
and calculate thruster-corrections to make changes in rotation
for the purpose of altering the imaginary "lift" factors and
destabilization drift, and be able to calculate how much fuel,
how much force, and how much correction was needed to
create a 'stable' cycle of orientation fluctuations which would not
accidentally lock into a 'beating' or periodic swing that could
get out of control.

None of this even existed in 1969.

Scientists only began to take notice of complex negative feedback systems
in the 70s and 80s, and most of the research and analysis of
these systems was done long after Apollo.

In such an analog computer feedback network, pilots would be superfluous.


This pseudo-science nonsense and Historical Revisionism
can only be called priceless.
You should spend some more time studying the documents. A moment of rotation does not mean that the capsule spun around that axis, it means that when small attitude jets are fired, the capsule rotates around that point. Given that the heat shield had to constantly face into the atmosphere, any spinning of the capsule would have resulted in it burning up.

As to your claim that this technology did not exist in 1969, consider the Iowa class destroyers of the 1940's. Those ships had 16" guns. The gunners would aim the guns. Those guns were on a ship that was being rocked by waves on the ocean. The waves raised and lowered the ship as well as rolling it from side to side. Yet once the guns were on target they maintained that lock regardless of the ships movements. There were no computers during this period so this marvel of control was accomplished with hydraulics. Yes, the technology existed in 1969.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
The incredible LIE about a rotating capsule was invented
because it was already public knowledge that
NO STABILIZERS or GYROS were onboard the Command module.

Therefore the Command Module itself would have to act as
a 'stabilizing gyro' by rotating!

But typical stabilizers have to rotate a relative very high speeds
to actually exert enough force to stabilize an object in
3-dimensional space relative to a gravitational field and flight path.

Can anyone imagine that a capsule rotating slower than say
a laundry spin dryer would offer strong enough angular momentum
to stabilize a falling spacecraft?

Yes one could theoretically stabilize a craft by rotation,
say 3,600 RPM. What do you think that might do to the astronauts?
So the command module was designed not to spin and not to need a gyro to stabilize it. Read the information linked to and learn from it. As it began to enter the atmosphere they had control over the craft. As it sank deeper into the atmosphere it entered a ballistic phase where they had no control. A safe reentry was entirely dependent on proper orientation of the vehicle before it entered the ballistic phase. And they had sufficient computing power to accomplish that.
 

Nazaroo

New member
Here is the Wikipedia entry for Apollo:



This add-on now features a realistic model for the aerodynamics of the Command Module. This requires the user to fly the correct reentry profile to have a successful reentry. Basically, the CM has lift, and the direction of that lift is in the direction of the astronaut's feet. You should start your reentry with your head pointed toward the Earth, as in the real Apollo re-entries. The reentry profile you fly also depends if you are reentering from Earth orbit, or doing a direct reentry from a lunar trajectory (see details below). The capsule has an "aerodynamic stability axis" that is at an angle of 21 degrees to the axis of the command module itself. This means that aerodynamic forces maintain that angle of attack automatically. All the pilot (or autopilot) needs to do is use the roll thrusters to control lift (although I think they actually coupled some yaw into the thrust commands to keep things completely stable).

[edit]
Rentry from Earth Orbit

Your angle of entry (at 400,000 ft or 122km) should be about 2 degrees. This corresponds to a PeD of about 6200km if your burn is at 300 km altitude. You control lift by rolling to the right or left. A nominal reentry had the CM rolling to a -60 degree roll angle for about 2 minutes, then rolling to +60 degree for another 2 minutes, then back to -60 for about a minute, and back to +60. This is because you don't want too much upward lift, and the rolling gives you some cross range control. If you want to deflect your path to the right or left, you can stay rolled to one side longer than the other. Also, you have the option to roll to zero if you're coming in too steep (more lift), or rolling all the way to 180 if you're too shallow (negative lift). Of course, in the real Apollo, they had a guidance computer do all the work. Once your velocity drops below 500 m/s, you enter the "ballistic phase", where you can no longer control the path of CM. Just sit back and watch the chutes open!





Rentry from Lunar Trajectory

Your entry angle should be about 6.5 degrees. This corresponds to a PeD of about 6415 for a lunar trajectory. As in orbital entry, you control lift by rolling. The difference is you are entering with a much higher velocity. You need to get rid of all that velocity, but you want to do it gradually so you keep your g forces reasonable. A nominal reentry had the CM entering at a 0 degree roll angle (heads-down, lift up) to limit the initial peak G forces to around 7 Gs. At some point, the CM begins to gain altitude, and it still has a lot of velocity. It was then rolled 180 degrees to prevent the CM from escaping the atmosphere (lift down). In about 45 seconds, the CM was once again losing altitude, and at this point it was rolled back to 0 degrees breifly. The rest of the entry was then the same as the orbital entry, in which rolling was used to fine-tune the path of the spacecraft (nominally rolling from one side to the other by 60 degrees or so). Next, the "ballistic phase" when your velocity falls below 500 m/s. Finally, drogue chute, main chute, and splashdown!






What they are claiming here is that the command module must not tumble or roll end over end, or spin at all, for a successful reentry.

Instead, the module flies through the sky much like a KITE,
with the offset weight acting like a string would stabilize a Kite.

Under this system, not only must angle of entry be near-perfect,
but the 'roll' of the craft is under the monitor and control of the astronauts.


For those unfamiliar with "roll" of a flying craft, here is a diagram:

Roll,-Yaw,-Pitch_lg_0.jpg




We must in this system ignore the apparent external symmetry (radial) of
the spacecraft, and treat it as if it were a non-symmetrical object
with a fixed orientation based on its physical internal weight distribution.


In such a system there can be no spinning at all,
and even a single 'tumble' or complete 'roll' would
mean the craft was no longer in control and would not be protected
from heat and acceleration toward the earth at high speed (a crash).


The pilots were supposed to control all three dimensions of orientation,
Roll, Pitch and Yaw, with a primitive set of thrusters.

The Yaw
was for the most part supposed to be controlled by the
offset unbalanced weight distribution, which introduced a 'drag'
that would have more effect on the lighter (back end) of the craft.

That is, like the tail of a kite, the back half of the craft would
supposedly stay there, held by the wind passing by the craft on either side.

It is also supposed that upon 'entry' into the atmosphere, that
the craft would for the most part orient itself in this way, regardless
of its original orientation. The increasing air resistance would
'blow' the light end of the craft to the rear of the trajectory,
and point the heavy end of the craft toward the motion of freefall.

The Pitch was indirectly controlled by adjusting the "Roll",
and we are to imagine that the pilots could control both the
verticle angle of entry and keep the craft "upright" (see diagram)
by rolling the craft gently to the left or right a few degrees
(as much as 30 degrees! apparently).

The Roll was directly controlled according to the theory by
the thrusters under the hands of the astronauts.

Under this 'system' there is no anticipation or means for preventing
destructive oscillation which could tilt the 'craft' upside down and
cause it to roll and tumble uncontrollably.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
Here is the Wikipedia entry for Apollo:



This add-on now features a realistic model for the aerodynamics of the Command Module. This requires the user to fly the correct reentry profile to have a successful reentry. Basically, the CM has lift, and the direction of that lift is in the direction of the astronaut's feet. You should start your reentry with your head pointed toward the Earth, as in the real Apollo re-entries. The reentry profile you fly also depends if you are reentering from Earth orbit, or doing a direct reentry from a lunar trajectory (see details below). The capsule has an "aerodynamic stability axis" that is at an angle of 21 degrees to the axis of the command module itself. This means that aerodynamic forces maintain that angle of attack automatically. All the pilot (or autopilot) needs to do is use the roll thrusters to control lift (although I think they actually coupled some yaw into the thrust commands to keep things completely stable).

[edit]
Rentry from Earth Orbit

Your angle of entry (at 400,000 ft or 122km) should be about 2 degrees. This corresponds to a PeD of about 6200km if your burn is at 300 km altitude. You control lift by rolling to the right or left. A nominal reentry had the CM rolling to a -60 degree roll angle for about 2 minutes, then rolling to +60 degree for another 2 minutes, then back to -60 for about a minute, and back to +60. This is because you don't want too much upward lift, and the rolling gives you some cross range control. If you want to deflect your path to the right or left, you can stay rolled to one side longer than the other. Also, you have the option to roll to zero if you're coming in too steep (more lift), or rolling all the way to 180 if you're too shallow (negative lift). Of course, in the real Apollo, they had a guidance computer do all the work. Once your velocity drops below 500 m/s, you enter the "ballistic phase", where you can no longer control the path of CM. Just sit back and watch the chutes open!





Rentry from Lunar Trajectory

Your entry angle should be about 6.5 degrees. This corresponds to a PeD of about 6415 for a lunar trajectory. As in orbital entry, you control lift by rolling. The difference is you are entering with a much higher velocity. You need to get rid of all that velocity, but you want to do it gradually so you keep your g forces reasonable. A nominal reentry had the CM entering at a 0 degree roll angle (heads-down, lift up) to limit the initial peak G forces to around 7 Gs. At some point, the CM begins to gain altitude, and it still has a lot of velocity. It was then rolled 180 degrees to prevent the CM from escaping the atmosphere (lift down). In about 45 seconds, the CM was once again losing altitude, and at this point it was rolled back to 0 degrees breifly. The rest of the entry was then the same as the orbital entry, in which rolling was used to fine-tune the path of the spacecraft (nominally rolling from one side to the other by 60 degrees or so). Next, the "ballistic phase" when your velocity falls below 500 m/s. Finally, drogue chute, main chute, and splashdown!






What they are claiming here is that the command module must not tumble or roll end over end, or spin at all, for a successful reentry.

Instead, the module flies through the sky much like a KITE,
with the offset weight acting like a string would stabilize a Kite.

Under this system, not only must angle of entry be near-perfect,
but the 'roll' of the craft is under the monitor and control of the astronauts.


For those unfamiliar with "roll" of a flying craft, here is a diagram:



We must in this system ignore the apparent external symmetry (radial) of
the spacecraft, and treat it as if it were a non-symmetrical object
with a fixed orientation based on its physical internal weight distribution.


In such a system there can be no spinning at all,
and even a single 'tumble' or complete 'roll' would
mean the craft was no longer in control and would not be protected
from heat and acceleration toward the earth at high speed (a crash).


The pilots were supposed to control all three dimensions of orientation,
Roll, Pitch and Yaw, with a primitive set of thrusters.

The Yaw
was for the most part supposed to be controlled by the
offset unbalanced weight distribution, which introduced a 'drag'
that would have more effect on the lighter (back end) of the craft.

That is, like the tail of a kite, the back half of the craft would
supposedly stay there, held by the wind passing by the craft on either side.

It is also supposed that upon 'entry' into the atmosphere, that
the craft would for the most part orient itself in this way, regardless
of its original orientation. The increasing air resistance would
'blow' the light end of the craft to the rear of the trajectory,
and point the heavy end of the craft toward the motion of freefall.

The Pitch was indirectly controlled by adjusting the "Roll",
and we are to imagine that the pilots could control both the
verticle angle of entry and keep the craft "upright" (see diagram)
by rolling the craft gently to the left or right a few degrees
(as much as 30 degrees! apparently).

The Roll was directly controlled according to the theory by
the thrusters under the hands of the astronauts.

Under this 'system' there is no anticipation or means for preventing
destructive oscillation which could tilt the 'craft' upside down and
cause it to roll and tumble uncontrollably.
The system was computer controlled. See above.
 

Nazaroo

New member
The system was computer controlled. See above.

There was no computer capable in 1969. See further above.

Under this 'system' there is no anticipation or means for preventing
destructive oscillation which could tilt the 'craft' upside down and
cause it to roll and tumble uncontrollably.


Destructive oscillations in negative feedback loops
were not even understood in a quantifiable manner
until the 1980s.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
There was no computer capable in 1969. See further above.
Yes, there was. The entire program for landing the lunar module had to fit in 256k of memory. That was huge for the time.

Computer history link.



Destructive oscillations in negative feedback loops
were not even understood in a quantifiable manner
until the 1980s.
One of the links I posted actually described the under-dampened, critically damped and over-dampened systems. It would appear that they were aware of destructive oscillations and figured out how to deal with it. The techniques were refined in the 80's but had to be dealt with in the 30's to develop the controls for those big Iowa class 16" guns.
 

Nazaroo

New member
Yes, there was. The entire program for landing the lunar module had to fit in 256k of memory. That was huge for the time.

Computer history link.

thanks for the great mythology.

1309405156001.jpg


One of the links I posted actually described the under-dampened, critically damped and over-dampened systems. It would appear that they were aware of destructive oscillations and figured out how to deal with it. The techniques were refined in the 80's but had to be dealt with in the 30's to develop the controls for those big Iowa class 16" guns.
Totally inapplicable nonsense.

(1) Large ships on the ocean rock slowly, in regular periodic fashion,
and normally in no danger whatever of complete rotations in 'roll'.
Thus there were no special techniques to prevent oscillations: oscillations were
integral to the motion and were compensated for by gun-base suspensions.

Yes ship guns can be suspended, stay steady mainly from their own inertia when a boat rocks,
and can be damped with shock-absorbers like a car,
and at slow predictable speeds can be automatically leveled
with servo-motors and simple feedback systems.

That technology has nothing to do with keeping flying objects
from tumbling in freefall at high speeds through turbulent atmospheres.


(2) "Techniques" weren't merely 'refined' from experience with cannon on ships.
The techniques for stabilizing a freefalling and unmanouverable craft
from space were non-existent.

What next? Are you going to tell us that Leonardo's 'airplane' designs were capable of flying?

Leo-copter.jpg
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
thanks for the great mythology.
Exactly how do you think that computer your typing on right now came to be? Did IBM or Dell or HP just miraculously create it without any earlier versions? Computers were developed over time. One of the very first computers cracked the Enigma code of the Germans in 1941. History. Learn it.



Totally inapplicable nonsense.

(1) Large ships on the ocean rock slowly, in regular periodic fashion,
and normally in no danger whatever of complete rotations in 'roll'.
Thus there were no special techniques to prevent oscillations: oscillations were
integral to the motion and were compensated for by gun-base suspensions.

Yes ship guns can be suspended, stay steady mainly from their own inertia when a boat rocks,
and can be damped with shock-absorbers like a car,
and at slow predictable speeds can be automatically leveled
with servo-motors and simple feedback systems.

That technology has nothing to do with keeping flying objects
from tumbling in freefall at high speeds through turbulent atmospheres.


(2) "Techniques" weren't merely 'refined' from experience with cannon on ships.
The techniques for stabilizing a freefalling and unmanouverable craft
from space were non-existent.

What next? Are you going to tell us that Leonardo's 'airplane' designs were capable of flying?
What you call "inapplicable nonsense"is actually how science and engineering is done. The guns of the Iowa class were not passively controlled using inertia, they were actively controlled using hydraulics. That gave engineers an understanding of oscillations and how to develop control systems to control them. They build on that starting point and come to understand the math that governs it. That math can then be applied to different systems such as reentry vehicles.

Watch a few episodes of this series. Connections It is a fascinating look at how technology is developed over time.
 

Nazaroo

New member
Exactly how do you think that computer your typing on right now came to be? Did IBM or Dell or HP just miraculously create it without any earlier versions? Computers were developed over time. One of the very first computers cracked the Enigma code of the Germans in 1941. History. Learn it.

You're hilarious.

I was programming when you were in diapers.

article-1227406-072B5424000005DC-541_468x464.jpg


I started with IBM cards and fortran, Unix, Snobol 4,
then mastered both the 6502 machine code and later Assemblers,
moved from there to hardware-level programming of the 8086 series,
wrote many articles which improved on Donald Knuth's ground-breaking
work on algorithms, went on as a physicist to help create large scale integration
chip technology, and acquired many SSP patents,
studied under Feynman, and worked with Pease.
I was at MIT in the 70s when they were inventing Holography.
I helped reverse engineer Frequency Modulation synthesis
and interfaced products from 5 different manufacturers in the early 80s through MIDI.
I also developed the first Graphic User Interface (GUI)
before the mouse was invented.
I did advanced Fourier Analysis using tables on an Apple IIe
in 64k of RAM with only about a dozen bytes of memory left over.

Who are you?

laugh-pink-sherbert-photography.jpg
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
You're hilarious.

I was programming when you were in diapers.

I started with IBM cards and fortran, Unix, Snobol 4,
then mastered both the 6502 machine code and later Assemblers,
moved from there to hardware-level programming of the 8086 series,
wrote many articles which improved on Donald Knuth's ground-breaking
work on algorithms, went on as a physicist to help create large scale integration
chip technology, and acquired many SSP patents,
studied under Feynman, and worked with Pease.
I also developed the first Graphic User Interface (GUI)
before the mouse was invented.
How can you have done all that and learned so little?

Who are you?
An electrical engineer and a student of history.
 

Mocking You

New member
You're hilarious.

I was programming when you were in diapers.

I started with IBM cards and fortran, Unix, Snobol 4,
then mastered both the 6502 machine code and later Assemblers,
moved from there to hardware-level programming of the 8086 series,
wrote many articles which improved on Donald Knuth's ground-breaking
work on algorithms, went on as a physicist to help create large scale integration
chip technology, and acquired many SSP patents,
studied under Feynman,
and worked with Pease.
I was at MIT in the 70s when they were inventing Holography.
I helped reverse engineer Frequency Modulation synthesis
and interfaced products from 5 different manufacturers in the early 80s through MIDI.
I also developed the first Graphic User Interface (GUI)
before the mouse was invented.
I did advanced Fourier Analysis using tables on an Apple IIe
in 64k of RAM with only about a dozen bytes of memory left over.

I call bull on all of this. Nobody goes from a code-writer to become a physicist working on semiconductor materials. Studied under Feynman? Why? He was a theoretical physicist. You'd have us believe you were at both Cal Tech and MIT. And after all of these incredible intellectual challenges and engineering achivements you decide to slum it here on TOL and interact with people about homos. Sure. One does not need to be a rocket surgeon to know you are full of it.
 

Nazaroo

New member
I call bull on all of this. Nobody goes from a code-writer to become a physicist working on semiconductor materials. Studied under Feynman? Why? He was a theoretical physicist. You'd have us believe you were at both Cal Tech and MIT. Sure.

Bull Call FAIL.

I heard Feynman lecture in CAL and later went to Boston to audit there.

in those days you could sit in on courses for free,
you just didn't get credits unless you paid for a course.

I toyed with becoming an electrical engineer, but settled on physics,
because I was smart enough to handle the math.

Feynman wasn't a "theoretical physicist".
He singlehandedly invented
modern Quantum Electrodynamics from scratch,

because he couldn't understand Bohr and the gang.
They made no sense, and did a lot of lying.

slide13.jpg



Bohm and Mead went the right way, following Einstein's hints.

The rest are morons.

I wrote code as a hobby, because in the seventies,
building your own computer was the cutting edge in the public domain.

Nobody starts out at CERN ha ha ha.
You have to do stuff first.

By the way I also helped design the first electronic violin,
which Yamaha later stole some ideas from and cloned.
The key problem was getting the bridge to behave asymmetrically,
which a real violin does. Yamaha still hasn't duplicated that effect.

By the way you should have called bull on Pease rather,
because technically we were physically distant,
and shared ideas only by phone.

He's still the top analog circuit designer of all time.

51vBZh3pmQL._SX348_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


I still have a photo of Pease throwing his computer off the roof.

world_of_bob_pease_hp.jpg
 
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CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
Lets test your claim:

Who is Heavyside, and who was Hamilton?

Don't google it. Just type your answer now.

Quaternion_2.jpeg
Heavyside laid the foundation for a lot of the subjects I studied as an under-grad. I don't know which Hamilton you are referring to.
 

gcthomas

New member
I think Naz has picked up a urinary infection that is causing some hallucinations.

You need someone to pick up your meds?
 
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