ECT False Preachers in the Church

[musterion]

Where are your scriptural references as to God condemning a full time pastor?

Ditto.

 

[OCTOBER23]

CUTE I CALL IT - MEOW

meow meow :dog:

 

[HisServant]

Where are your scriptural references as to God condemning a full time pastor?

Just read Pauls writings.. and the writings of the first century church... all apostles and elders were required to work outside the church for their living. The word pastor is only used once along side the word elder... so pastors are a kind of elder and must abide by the requirements for elder.

Pastor is the protestant equivalent of a roman catholic priest... think on that for a while and your eyes will open up and you will realize you have been duped from the time you first set foot in a church.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

Word of Faith False Teacher Joyce Meyer’s Shocking Doctrine and Heresy

Although Meyer has some good teachings perhaps the most striking, unbiblical, and problematic teaching from Joyce Meyer is her teaching on the atonement of Jesus Christ particularly about what happened between the point of Jesus crucifixion and his resurrection. It isn’t so much that Meyer doesn’t believe in the atonement of Jesus, but the problem lies in where he paid for our sins. The following teaching from Meyer comes from her 1991 Booklet called The Most Important Decision you Will Ever Make, it is also repeated on her audio teaching called From the Cross to the Throne which I have heard is currently unavailable. Well the crux of Meyer’s teaching on the atonement is that Jesus Christ paid for our sins in hell, that’s right in hell!!!! She teaches that on the cross Jesus literally became not just our sin bearer but sin itself and ceased to be the Son of God. After Jesus died on the cross he went to hell not to proclaim the gospel or to announce his victory as some Christians believe but he went to hell to be tortured for 3 days and 3 nights by Satan and his demons as part of the punishment for our sins. After 3 days of demons jumping all over him and laughing at him, God finally had enough and seeing that the price for sin was finally paid God ended the suffering and Jesus then physically rose from the dead as the first born again man.

Read the whole article at: https://craigbrownsreformedtheology.wordpress.com/2011/09/21/word-of-faith-false-teacher-joyce-meyer%E2%80%99s-shocking-doctrine-and-heresy/

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

Orthodox Heretics

Orthodox Heretics

Deception in the Church

A growing number of pastors, teachers, and evangelists within the Charismatic/Pentecostal circles of the Christian church are advancing what has come to be known as the "Word Faith" movement. Its major leaders include such prominent figures as Kenneth Hagin; Kenneth Copeland; Frederick K. C. Price; and David (Paul) Yongii Cho, who pastors one of the largest churches in the world in Seoul, Korea. Other well-known Word Faith personalities include Gloria Copeland, Robert Tilton, John Avanzini, John Osteen, T. L. Osborne, Charles Capps, Marilyn Hickey, Jerry Savelle, Joyce Meyer, Morris Cerullo, Casey Treat, Dwight Thompson, and Oral and Richard Roberts.

Read the whole article here: http://www.thechristianexpositor.org/page7.html

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

The Word Faith "Prosperity Gospel" Movement

An expose of the false teachers (wolves) in the church.

Read more at: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/word_faith_movement.htm

 

[Angel4Truth]

Just read Pauls writings.. and the writings of the first century church... all apostles and elders were required to work outside the church for their living. The word pastor is only used once along side the word elder... so pastors are a kind of elder and must abide by the requirements for elder.

Pastor is the protestant equivalent of a roman catholic priest... think on that for a while and your eyes will open up and you will realize you have been duped from the time you first set foot in a church.

I see, you cant back up your position with relevant scripture, and i can back up mine, in that pastors most certainly can earn wages.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

Just read Pauls writings.. and the writings of the first century church... all apostles and elders were required to work outside the church for their living. The word pastor is only used once along side the word elder... so pastors are a kind of elder and must abide by the requirements for elder.

Pastor is the protestant equivalent of a roman catholic priest... think on that for a while and your eyes will open up and you will realize you have been duped from the time you first set foot in a church.

That was the church in its infancy. You can't equate that to today's church.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Word of Faith False Teacher Joyce Meyer’s Shocking Doctrine and Heresy

Although Meyer has some good teachings perhaps the most striking, unbiblical, and problematic teaching from Joyce Meyer is her teaching on the atonement of Jesus Christ particularly about what happened between the point of Jesus crucifixion and his resurrection. It isn’t so much that Meyer doesn’t believe in the atonement of Jesus, but the problem lies in where he paid for our sins. The following teaching from Meyer comes from her 1991 Booklet called The Most Important Decision you Will Ever Make, it is also repeated on her audio teaching called From the Cross to the Throne which I have heard is currently unavailable. Well the crux of Meyer’s teaching on the atonement is that Jesus Christ paid for our sins in hell, that’s right in hell!!!! She teaches that on the cross Jesus literally became not just our sin bearer but sin itself and ceased to be the Son of God. After Jesus died on the cross he went to hell not to proclaim the gospel or to announce his victory as some Christians believe but he went to hell to be tortured for 3 days and 3 nights by Satan and his demons as part of the punishment for our sins. After 3 days of demons jumping all over him and laughing at him, God finally had enough and seeing that the price for sin was finally paid God ended the suffering and Jesus then physically rose from the dead as the first born again man.

Read the whole article at: https://craigbrownsreformedtheology.wordpress.com/2011/09/21/word-of-faith-false-teacher-joyce-meyer%E2%80%99s-shocking-doctrine-and-heresy/

That doctrine is complete rubbish.

Who do you think was behind the resisting Him all of the way, and belting into Him after His arrest?

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Christ always preached when He was alive not when He was dead.

LA

 

[HisServant]

That was the church in its infancy. You can't equate that to today's church.

I absolutely can... from your statement, I assume you are Roman Catholic.. right?

As far as biblical support just go back and read the link I posted.

The main thing you need to understand is that never was a single person allowed to rule a church... it was always a council of equal elders with different gifts. A 'Pastor' is nothing more than an elder and MUST abide by the requirements for elders.

You also have to understand that those that could receive some money from gifts to spread the gospel.. are not 'pastors'. People eligible for monetary support would be missionaries and others that were sent out of the church who's primary purpose was to preach the gospel. It was never the responsibility of an elder or 'pastor' to preach the gospel full time. And I bet your pastor doesn't.

Its all in understanding scripture in context.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

I absolutely can... from your statement, I assume you are Roman Catholic.. right?

Wrong.

As far as biblical support just go back and read the link I posted.

Have you read the biblically supported posts I've been quoting throughout this thread?

The main thing you need to understand is that never was a single person allowed to rule a church... it was always a council of equal elders with different gifts. A 'Pastor' is nothing more than an elder and MUST abide by the requirements for elders.

Who is to determine whether an elder has a gift? A church board of fallible men are to be trusted over a pastor, who is also fallible. In the engineering world we call that designing by committee -- and it almost always turns out badly because each member brings their own fallible viewpoint to the project, or board. Can this work? Yes, but it is not fool-proof. I've seen more failures than successes.

You also have to understand that those that could receive some money from gifts to spread the gospel.. are not 'pastors'. People eligible for monetary support would be missionaries and others that were sent out of the church who's primary purpose was to preach the gospel. It was never the responsibility of an elder or 'pastor' to preach the gospel full time. And I bet your pastor doesn't.

Wrong again. I don't have a pastor because I do not belong to any organized church. I am truly non-denominational.

Its all in understanding scripture in context.

Scripture must be understood in context, at the time it was written, to the audience it was meant for.

 

[HisServant]

Wrong.

Have you read the biblically supported posts I've been quoting throughout this thread?

Yes.. and in all of those scriptures... it does not refer to pastors.. but refers to people who spend 100% of their time spreading the Gospel, which is not a pastoral job which is to educate an assembly of already converted people.

Who is to determine whether an elder has a gift? A church board of fallible men are to be trusted over a pastor, who is also fallible. In the engineering world we call that designing by committee -- and it almost always turns out badly because each member brings their own fallible viewpoint to the project, or board. Can this work? Yes, but it is not fool-proof. I've seen more failures than successes.

The congregation has the right to elect/oust any elder or pastor it wants... for pastors/elders are SERVANTS of the congregation and solely accountable to them.

Wrong again. I don't have a pastor because I do not belong to any organized church. I am truly non-denominational.

Scripture must be understood in context, at the time it was written, to the audience it was meant for.

If your "pastors" vocation isn't 100% preaching the Gospel, then they are not eligible to be paid...

But it is appropriate for the congregation to provide them with an 'honorarium' from time to time if needed... but a salary is out of the question.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

Yes.. and in all of those scriptures... it does not refer to pastors.. but refers to people who spend 100% of their time spreading the Gospel, which is not a pastoral job which is to educate an assembly of already converted people.

So are you saying Paul was a pastor or not?

The congregation has the right to elect/oust any elder or pastor it wants... for pastors/elders are SERVANTS of the congregation and solely accountable to them.

So the congregation rewards those whose message tickles their ears.

If your "pastors" vocation isn't 100% preaching the Gospel, then they are not eligible to be paid...

So isn't this the opposite of what you said above?

But it is appropriate for the congregation to provide them with an 'honorarium' from time to time if needed... but a salary is out of the question.

It's very convenient to be a miser. The workman is worthy of his hire or wage. Ever hear that before?

 

[HisServant]

So are you saying Paul was a pastor or not?

Paul was an Apostle and did not preside over a particular church.. so no, he was not a pastor.

So the congregation rewards those whose message tickles their ears.

The Holy Spirit works through the congregation and it is they that confirm the calling of an elder and approve/disapprove of same.

Even when Paul and Peter approved elders and sent them to particular churches, they still had to submit themselves to an examination by the congregation for acceptance.

So isn't this the opposite of what you said above?

It's very convenient to be a miser. The workman is worthy of his hire or wage. Ever hear that before?

This has nothing to do with being a miser.. it has to do with making sure the money in the offering plate goes to the needy... pastors do not fall into that class... as what they do SHOULD NOT BE a full time job. It should be spread around the eldership. Think of all the good a church could do if it wasnt hamstrung by the salary and benefits a full time pastor and their family require... not to mention a mortgage (besides the bible kind of says that the church should not hold a mortgage anyhow).

Yes, I heard that... but that statement deals with people who's job is to spread the Gospel... which is not a Pastors full time job. Paying a salary to a pastor is doing the devils work.

Someone that would be eligible for support would be Billy Graham or other evangelist who's full time job is preaching the Gospel to the unsaved.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

Your posts have me totally confused. I don't know where you're coming from or what your position is. It's probably my fault, but I give up trying to understand where you're coming from. It sounds like your preaching legalism to me, a very rigid church structure that cannot be supported in modern times.

 

[HisServant]

Your posts have me totally confused. I don't know where you're coming from or what your position is. It's probably my fault, but I give up trying to understand where you're coming from. It sounds like your preaching legalism to me, a very rigid church structure that cannot be supported in modern times.

It's because you were raised in a time where Christians are encouraged to be very needy and need to be coddled... a full time pastor fits that bill.

If we were acting in accordance with scripture, the needs of others would exceed the self obsessed needs of ourselves.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

It's because you were raised in a time where Christians are encouraged to be very needy and need to be coddled... a full time pastor fits that bill.

If we were acting in accordance with scripture, the needs of others would exceed the self obsessed needs of ourselves.

You judge me without knowing me at all. Who's servant are you?

 

[HisServant]

You judge me without knowing me at all. Who's servant are you?

God's.... your defense of the indefensible kind of gives you away.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Benny Hinn Claims 'Greatest Wealth Transfer in Human History' Is Coming According to Bible Passages; Asks People to Sow Money

Controversial televangelist Benny Hinn has claimed in a message that the "greatest wealth transfer in human history" is approaching, which he says is backed by both financial headlines and Bible passages. Hinn asked people to sow money into his ministry as he prepares for a new world tour.

"It is estimated by many leading financial analysts that during the next three decades more than $16 trillion will transfer from one generation to the next," Hinn said on his website.

"As I've been sharing with you in recent months, the Word of God clearly tells us that we are coming into a time when we will see a glorious transfer of wealth for the preaching of the Gospel and for the financing of the end-time harvest," he continued.

He then quoted a number of passages in the Bible which he said talked about a great transfer of wealth, including Abraham (Genesis 12:10), Isaac (Genesis 26:1), Jacob (Genesis 31), Joseph (Genesis 41), Israel (Exodus 3:19-22), and Solomon (1 Kings 10:23).

Hinn argued that before each "historic financial blessing," God asked people for an offering.

"Right before giving them their supernatural wealth transfer, He first asked them to give an offering. Every household was commanded to bring a lamb to sacrifice. Then, after making the sacrifice and applying the blood over the door and on the doorposts, God told them to go and receive the wealth of the Egyptians."

The televangelist asked people to join him in preparing for this great transfer of wealth, and asked them to "prayerfully sow a sacrificial seed and take an extraordinary step of faith."... read more at link

 

[Puppet]

Benny Hinn Claims 'Greatest Wealth Transfer in Human History' Is Coming According to Bible Passages; Asks People to Sow Money

Why does binny go outside the 10% standard of thithing?