ECT NOTABLE HERETICS THROUGHOUT CHRISTIAN HISTORY HAVE BASED HERESIES ON SOLA SCRIPTURA

[Ask Mr. Religion]

What doctrinal authority did Luther and Calvin possess to impose their interpretive preferences on the Church that, say, Arius, Pelagius, and Sabellius did not?

You keep asking this and I wonder "why?" If you have some point to make, then please do so rather than expect me to read your mind.

AMR

 

[CabinetMaker]

Indeed. :up:

Surprised you agree.

 

[CabinetMaker]

"What doctrinal authority did Luther and Calvin possess to impose their interpretive preferences on the Church that, say, Arius, Pelagius, and Sabellius did not?"​

Assuming you accept Christ's teachings as doctrine, then they had Christ's authority to question Marian doctrines, indulgences, purgatory, Popes to name some of the more obvious non Christ based doctrines.

 

[Cruciform]

Surprised you agree.

Why, since Post #77 is mine?

 

[Cruciform]

You keep asking this and I wonder "why?" If you have some point to make, then please do so rather than expect me to read your mind.

I'm simply requesting your answer to the question from a Reformed Protestant perspective. Once I have your information, then I can proceed.

"What doctrinal authority did Luther and Calvin possess to impose their interpretive preferences on the Church that, say, Arius, Pelagius, and Sabellius did not?"​

 

[Cruciform]

Assuming you accept Christ's teachings as doctrine, then they had Christ's authority to question Marian doctrines, indulgences, purgatory, Popes to name some of the more obvious non Christ based doctrines.

Is it your claim that the fallible theological opinions of Luther and Calvin are identical in authority with the infallible authoritative teachings of Jesus Christ?

 

[Cruciform]

As soon as a Roman Catholic argues from Scripture he denies the need for an infallible magisterium.

Your logical error here is a fundamental one, since Catholics may certainly appeal to Scripture as AN authority without buying into the entirely unbiblical---and therefore directly self-refuting---16th-century Protestant assumption that Scripture is the ONLY authority. So much for your above claim.

 

[HisServant]

The fact that the Romanists brand anyone a 'heretic' is meaningless to a Christian.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Why, since Post #77 is mine?

Go back and read the exchange again. Read it with more attention and it should become clear.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Is it your claim that the fallible theological opinions of Luther and Calvin are identical in authority with the infallible authoritative teachings of Jesus Christ?

Just show us where Jesus taught any of the things I mentioned. If you can, then I am wrong. If you cannot, then you are wrong.

 

[Cruciform]

Just show us where Jesus taught any of the things I mentioned. If you can, then I am wrong. If you cannot, then you are wrong.

Again:

"Is it your claim that the fallible theological opinions of Luther and Calvin are identical in authority with the infallible authoritative teachings of Jesus Christ?"​

 

[Totton Linnet]

What about the fallible theological opinions of Ignatias he was first to elevate the episcopacy to same authority as Christ...the bishop must be obeyed.

Ignatias is the founder of Catholicism

 

[CabinetMaker]

Again:

"Is it your claim that the fallible theological opinions of Luther and Calvin are identical in authority with the infallible authoritative teachings of Jesus Christ?"​

Note that I am not claims anything regarding Calcin or Luther. I asked you a specific question about Roman doctrine and wha Christ taught. Will you answer that question?

 

[Cruciform]

Note that I am not claims anything regarding Calcin or Luther. I asked you a specific question about Roman doctrine and wha Christ taught. Will you answer that question?

No, I won't, since you asked your question in reply to my Post #80, which has nothing whatsoever to do with your question, which is therefore off-topic.

 

[Cruciform]

What about the fallible theological opinions of Ignatias he was first to elevate the episcopacy to same authority as Christ...the bishop must be obeyed. Ignatias is the founder of Catholicism

I've personally refuted you on this at least four times on this forum, and other Catholics have answered you as well. Don't even bother. :yawn:

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I'm simply requesting your answer to the question from a Reformed Protestant perspective. Once I have your information, then I can proceed.

"What doctrinal authority did Luther and Calvin possess to impose their interpretive preferences on the Church that, say, Arius, Pelagius, and Sabellius did not?"​

Good gravy, who declared you master of ceremonies? Is this a game show or something? If you are trying to make a point then make it. I have no idea what your oddly phrased question even means. Unpack it a wee bit or something to explain the use of heretics and non-heretics in the same breadth along with two distinct historical responses. I have no patience to try and tease out whatever your agenda is with all this coyness. It is juvenile.

AMR

 

[Cruciform]

Good gravy, who declared you master of ceremonies? Is this a game show or something? If you are trying to make a point then make it. I have no idea what your oddly phrased question even means. Unpack it a wee bit or something to explain the use of heretics and non-heretics in the same breadth along with two distinct historical responses. I have no patience to try and tease out whatever your agenda is with all this coyness. It is juvenile.

It's clear from your defensiveness and avoidance that you're more than a little afraid to actually answer the question posed to you. Now you complain that you don't understand the question. Fine, I'll humor you...

• Many individuals throughout Christian history have presumed to replace the formally established and authoritatively binding doctrines of Christ's one historic Church with their own interpretive preferences and theological opinions. Examples of such individuals would include Arius, Pelagius, Sabellius, Nestorius, Apollinarius, Giordano Bruno, Martin Luther, Huldrych Zwingli, and John Calvin.
• Protestants agree with Catholics that Arius, Pelagius, Sabellius, Nestorius, Apollinarius, and Bruno were all formal heretics who had departed from the established and authoritative teachings of Christ's one historic Church.
• Now note that the very same historic Christian Church ALSO formally condemned Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin as heretics of the identical sort as Arius, Pelagius, and the rest. Yet, Protestants---who accept the Church's decree regarding the heretical character of the theological opinions of Arius, Pelagius, Sabellius, Nestorius, Apollinarius, and Bruno---simultaneously reject the same Church's identical decree with respect to the doctrinal opinions of Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin.
• In light of these facts, I repeat my question:

"What doctrinal authority did Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin possess to impose their interpretive preferences on the Church that, say, Arius, Pelagius, and Sabellius did not?"​

Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[CabinetMaker]

No, I won't, since you asked your question in reply to my Post #80, which has nothing whatsoever to do with your question, which is therefore off-topic.

Since you have no answer for my question the obvious conclusion is that your doctrine was not taught be Christ.

 

[Cruciform]

Since you have no answer for my question the obvious conclusion is that your doctrine was not taught be Christ.

Straw Man Fallacy. Back to Post #94.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Straw Man Fallacy. Back to Post #94.

What straw man? I asked you to show where Jesus taught the Matian doctrines and indulgences and you couldn't do it. How is it a straw man on my part that you can't support your doctrines based on what Jesus actually taught?