On "Horrific"

[CabinetMaker]

too broad

there are many circumstances where we are forced to do things we may not want to

It was qualified yet you ignored that. Typical SOD. Evade that which reveals the weakness in your positions.

 

[bybee]

:think:

who does that describe on this thread?

Don't push your luck! We know your past!

 

[bybee]

Sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated. They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts, including fits of rage. They are likely to be uneducated and live on the fringes of society, unable to hold down a steady job or stay in one place for very long. It is difficult but not impossible for sociopaths to form attachments with others. Many sociopaths are able to form an attachment to a particular individual or group, although they have no regard for society in general or its rules. In the eyes of others, sociopaths will appear to be very disturbed. Any crimes committed by a sociopath, including murder, will tend to be haphazard, disorganized and spontaneous rather than planned.---Psychology Today

Other qualities of a sociopath:
A disregard for laws and social mores
A disregard for the rights of others
A failure to feel remorse or guilt
A tendency to display violent behavior

I am a nurse. I took several college courses on psychology and abnormal psych along with more sociology classes than I cared to
take and several anthropology courses which I adored.
One of my daughters is a psych nurse and is director of nurses in a state facility for our veterans.

 

[ok doser]

It was qualified yet you ignored that. Typical SOD. Evade that which reveals the weakness in your positions.

sorry - didn't mean to

let's try again:

Is it horrific to have somebody do something to you that you did not want them to do?

not necessarily

Is there a greater violation of your person than to have somebody force you to fo something you did not want em to do?

not necessarily

 

[ok doser]

Sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated. They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts, including fits of rage. They are likely to be uneducated and live on the fringes of society, unable to hold down a steady job or stay in one place for very long. It is difficult but not impossible for sociopaths to form attachments with others. Many sociopaths are able to form an attachment to a particular individual or group, although they have no regard for society in general or its rules. In the eyes of others, sociopaths will appear to be very disturbed. Any crimes committed by a sociopath, including murder, will tend to be haphazard, disorganized and spontaneous rather than planned.---Psychology Today

Other qualities of a sociopath:
A disregard for laws and social mores
A disregard for the rights of others
A failure to feel remorse or guilt
A tendency to display violent behavior

i'll see your "Psychology Today" and raise you a DSM-IV

Diagnostic criteria for 301.7 Antisocial Personality Disorder DSM IV - TR A. There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following: (1) failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest (2) deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure (3) impulsivity or failure to plan ahead (4) irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults (5) reckless disregard for safety of self or others (6) consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations (7) lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another B. The individual is at least age 18 years. C. There is evidence of Conduct Disorder with onset before age 15 years. D. The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of Schizophrenia or a Manic Episode.

 

[CabinetMaker]

sorry - didn't mean to

let's try again:


not necessarily


not necessarily

To vague. Be specific, what is worse than having your body violated by a person you do not know and/or do not want to be involved with?

 

[ClimateSanity]

To vague. Be specific, what is worse than having your body violated by a person you do not know and/or do not want to be involved with?

Beheadings and being burned alive come to mind.

 

[ok doser]

To vague. Be specific, what is worse than having your body violated by a person you do not know and/or do not want to be involved with?

you didn't say "body violated" :idunno:

but to your reworked question, the first thing that comes to mind is the soldiers I'm working with who are struggling with PTSD

also, paraplegia and amputations

how about the death of a child?


i can think of many many things worse

 

[ok doser]

Beheadings and being burned alive come to mind.

i know, right?


lots of things


and those, i would call horrific


much more horrific than this:

I just kind of laid there and didn’t do anything — I had already said no. I was just tired and wanted to go to bed. I let him finish.

 

[bybee]

you didn't say "body violated" :idunno:

but to your reworked question, the first thing that comes to mind is the soldiers I'm working with who are struggling with PTSD

also, paraplegia and amputations

how about the death of a child?


i can think of many many things worse

One of my daughters was hit by a car when she was eight years old. Much trauma occurred. Since she was at a hospital where I was working at the time I was able to spend a good deal of time with her. She was very small and fragile from some other health issues. But we had wonderful care and she slowly healed back to pretty good health. Another family at the time had their child pass away. Her doctor told her to buck up because she still had time to make another baby!
I suppose he had a point?

 

[glorydaz]

Is it horrific to have somebody do something to you that you did not want them to do? Is there a greater violation of your person than to have somebody force you to fo something you did not want em to do?

I guess some kids might say it was horrific they were forced to do their chores or even their homework. :chuckle:

Horrific is a matter of degrees and comparisons.

Compared to being raped with a foreign object, rape would not be horrific.

Compared to being hooked up to a welder, rape would not be horrific.

Compared to losing a child, rape would not be horrific.

Compared to being murdered, rape would be a blessing.

 

[ok doser]

I guess some kids might say it was horrific they were forced to do their chores or even their homework. :chuckle:

scary

that was exactly what came to mind when i asked cm to be more specific


stop reading my mind! :sibbie:

 

[CabinetMaker]

Beheadings and being burned alive come to mind.

Yes, those are horrific ways to die. You were talking about rape.

 

[ok doser]

actually, the thread's about...

(checks thread title to see if I wrote it correctly)


...yep - it's on "Horrific"


and the OP gave you two specific rape scenarios


would you describe either of the two rape scenarios, as presented, as "horrific"?

 

[ClimateSanity]

Yes, those are horrific ways to die. You were talking about rape.

You were asking if there was anything worse. I answered your question.

 

[CabinetMaker]

you didn't say "body violated" :idunno:

Is that not the essence of rape? Do you really not understand that?

but to your reworked question, the first thing that comes to mind is the soldiers I'm working with who are struggling with PTSD

I have heard that rape sometimes causes PTSD in victims. If you consider PTSD to be horrific, wouldn't rape also be considered horrific for causing PTSD.

also, paraplegia and amputations

If a rape resulted in either condition that would be horrific. But the subject of your thread is rape and you keep trying to turn the conversation away from your topic, why?

how about the death of a child?

Is losing a child a result of being raped? I suppose it could as I have watched far to much criminal minds. In any case, do you really see the death of a child as being synonymous with having your person violated?

i can think of many many things worse

So in your mind, anything that you can think of that is "worse" makes rape okay. Interesting paradigm.

 

[ok doser]

So in your mind, anything that you can think of that is "worse" makes rape okay.

see caveats #1, 5 and 12

 

[CabinetMaker]

see caveats #1, 5 and 12

As always, what you ignore is far more revealing than what you reply to.

 

[ok doser]

As always, what you ignore is far more revealing than what you reply to.

i caught you in a lie

why would i bother replying to the rest of your nonsense, having identified you as a liar?

 

[Totton Linnet]

Yesterday a poster suggested that rape was always horrific. I was considering it last night and wanted to see if folks here agreed that rape is always horrific.
See caveats below.

The following scenario is accepted as "rape" - it was counted as rape in the statistics, it was investigated as rape - I do not know how it resolved - clearly, to me, what this woman underwent was not horrific:

Herewith, a Philadelphia magazine report about Swarthmore College, where in 2013 a student “was in her room with a guy with whom she’d been hooking up for three months”: “They’d now decided — mutually, she thought — just to be friends. When he ended up falling asleep on her bed, she changed into pajamas and climbed in next to him. Soon, he was putting his arm around her and taking off her clothes. ‘I basically said, “No, I don’t want to have sex with you.” And then he said, “OK, that’s fine” and stopped. . . . And then he started again a few minutes later, taking off my panties, taking off his boxers. I just kind of laid there and didn’t do anything — I had already said no. I was just tired and wanted to go to bed. I let him finish. I pulled my panties back on and went to sleep.’” Six weeks later, the woman reported that she had been raped.

As I thought about it last night, I started considering another angle (that I plan to explore in a different thread eventually) that involves rhohypnol - the "date rape" drug, aka "roofies". One of the effects of rhohypnol is that the user becomes compliant and open to suggestions that they would otherwise reject. Another effect is that of amnesia - MRI studies have shown that the regions of the brain responsible for creating short term memory and converting it to long term memory are inactive when taking rhohypnol. IOW, it's not that memory is masked. No memory is created.

Apparently, without memory of traumatic events, no psychological effects develop. (As an aside, there's been some interesting research done using rhohypnol to extinguish memory in patients with PTSD)

In the settings that often are related to rape - clubbing, raves, frat parties - rhohypnol is usually taken (or given) with other drugs such as alcohol, marijuana, ecstasy, etc. These combinations usually exacerbate the effects under consideration.

And so, the following scenario often ensues:

A woman takes or is given rhohypnol. When she awakes in the morning, she has no memory of the events of the night before, but suspects that she may have been raped. She reports it and is examined in the hospital where it is determined that she was sexually active the night before. No physical damage is noted. She is currently taking birth control pills. There was nobody at the party with whom she would normally have had sex - no ex-boyfriends, no acquaintances - in fact, every guy at the party was incredibly ugly - if sex occurred, she is certain that she did not give consent. She admits that she may not have refused consent. The hospital reports it as a rape and it is investigated as a rape.

And so we have a woman who has been "raped".

No physical damage has occurred.

No memory was created, so no psychological damage has occurred.


Was this "rape" horrific?



TOTS
It is totally horrific.....you sure don't understand women

What? someone knocks you out and violates you? you don't know who, you don't know what was done?







1. No, I'm not trying to minimize rape. Rape is an assault.
2. Not all things that are called rape should be called rape
3. Everything I write is my own opinion and does not necessarily represent the opinion of the staff or the owners of TOL. It's mine! All mine! Bwahahahaaha!!
4. My interest in this lies in my academic field of study and the environment in which I find myself.
5. No, I do not sympathize with real² rapists. Real² rapists should be executed, swiftly and publicly.
6. No, I am not trying to absolve myself of some undefined "guilt".
7. No, I am not planning to rape anybody.
8. If the subject matter under discussion is too disturbing to you, you are encouraged to avoid the thread.
9. If you want to discuss the cowardly actions of some students at Umpqua, feel free to go to this thread: http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113485
10. These conversations go more smoothly if we keep the mud-slinging, insults and trolling to a minimum.
11. If you can't control yourself and choose to ignore 8 and 10, don't whine about it in the woodshed if it's turned back in your face.
12. Clearly there are instances of rape that are horrific.
13. I'm not interested in examining responsibility in this one.