ECT Raptured__ What is it? Who is will be? When will it happen?

[Cross Reference]

If "rapture" means to be "caught away" and there is only one place in scripture where the words "caught away" are used to explain the OP,__ Rev 12:5 which is to happen 3 1/2 yrs into the 7 year period called the "tribulation". Nothing else fits.

 

[steko]

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

caught up- harpazo

 

[Cross Reference]

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

caught up- harpazo

Read Rev 12:5 and make the comparison. I believe what you posit has do with His second coming per Mark 13:26, perhaps after the millennium.

 

[steko]

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Same word- 'caught up- harpazo'.

Rev 12:5 corresponds to Acts 1:9.

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Jesus Christ is the man child which will rule the nations with a rod of iron and he came forth from Israel through Mary. When the fullness of time had come Christ was born of a woman per Galatians.
Jesus Christ was caught up to heaven in the sight of His disciples.


Mk 13:26 is indeed the second coming and the time when the Lord will send angels to regather Israel to the land.
Whereas in 1Thess 4:16 'the Lord Himself' shall gather the BOC. Two distinct events.

Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[Cross Reference]

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Same word- 'caught up- harpazo'.

Rev 12:5 corresponds to Acts 1:9.

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Not hardly. Read Rev.12:5,6 again -- carefully, if necessesary.

Jesus Christ is the man child which will rule the nations with a rod of iron and he came forth from Israel through Mary. When the fullness of time had come Christ was born of a woman per Galatians.
Jesus Christ was caught up to heaven in the sight of His disciples.

The time frame says it is not Jesus. More likely, the Body of Christ, invisible Church.

Mk 13:26 is indeed the second coming and the time when the Lord will send angels to regather Israel to the land.
Whereas in 1Thess 4:16 'the Lord Himself' shall gather the BOC. Two distinct events.

??????

Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

second coming

Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Man child.

[

COLOR="RoyalBlue"]1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[/COLOR]

second coming.

Remember, this "catching away" Rev 12:5 is mid-way into the tribulation. There was 3 1/2 yrs to go. It makes this "catching away" to be such that many Christians will be left behind, if you read the rest of the chapter.

 

[steko]

Oh yeah, now I remember that we've been over this before a year or so ago.
We disagree.
I'll leave it at that.

 

[DAN P]

If "rapture" means to be "caught away" and there is only one place in scripture where the words "caught away" are used to explain the OP,__ Rev 12:5 which is to happen 3 1/2 yrs into the 7 year period called the "tribulation". Nothing else fits.

Hi and what has Rev 12:5 have to do with the Body of Christ ?

There is no Greek word for Rapture in the bible !!

Steko has given you a verse where " CAUGHT UP " is used !

Caught up is used in Gal 1:4 and in 1 Cor 15:51 -58 and in 2 Thess 2:3 !!

dan p

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Verse 5 refers to Jesus Christ ascension in Acts ch 1.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

The children of the woman who is Zion is still on earth ---

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

until the end of--


Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The appearing of Christ begins the great trumpet when firstly the Christians who have overcome will be caught up, followed by the expulsion of sinners from Jerusalem and the gathering of mortal believers of Gods choice.

There is only one period of 3.5 years duration mentioned in the book at the end. Daniel ch 12.



LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Also--

The cut off point for those who are disobedient in Gods household is the beginning of the 3.5 years but there is no rapture at that time because the obedient are the carriers of the last witness of Rev.ch 11 and 14.

The punishments for the disobedient also occur at that same time--

Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

but that does not include those who are determined to stay in their sin for they will suffer terribly under Gods wrath, which commences at the Lords appearing to raise the saints--

Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.


Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

LA

 

[Cross Reference]

Verse 5 refers to Jesus Christ ascension in Acts ch 1.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

The children of the woman who is Zion is still on earth ---

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

until the end of--


Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The appearing of Christ begins the great trumpet when firstly the Christians who have overcome will be caught up, followed by the expulsion of sinners from Jerusalem and the gathering of mortal believers of Gods choice.

There is only one period of 3.5 years duration mentioned in the book at the end. Daniel ch 12.



LA

What remnant??

 

[Squeaky]

RAPTURE HARVEST OF THE ELECT
Rev 1:3
3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Rev 22:17
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
Rev 1:7
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
Matt 24:30-31
30 "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1Thes 4:13-18
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Cor 15:51-57
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
55 "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?"
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Thes 4:14-18
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Rev 14:14-15
14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe."
(NKJ)
ARMAGEDDON

 

[Cross Reference]

Also--

The cut off point for those who are disobedient in Gods household is the beginning of the 3.5 years but there is no rapture at that time because the obedient are the carriers of the last witness of Rev.ch 11 and 14.

The punishments for the disobedient also occur at that same time--

Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

but that does not include those who are determined to stay in their sin for they will suffer terribly under Gods wrath, which commences at the Lords appearing to raise the saints--

Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.


Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
LA

Are you implying this?:

"And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Revelation 7:13-14 (KJV)

 

[Aimiel]

I can tell you exactly WHEN He will come...

















... such an hour as you think not.

 

[Cross Reference]

... such an hour as you think not.

Who is Jesus speaking to, believers, disciples, unbelievers, who??

 

[Aimiel]

Who is Jesus speaking to, believers, disciples, unbelievers, who??

All.

Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled? And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows. But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. And the gospel must first be published among all nations. But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: and let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: and let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: for false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: so ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Also, He said, "But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!" I don't believe that was a warning to women who are pregnant or nursing, but to churches who keep their parishioners childish. Everyone needs to be able to hear God's Voice for themselves in these last days or the enemy will be able to take us out. We need to be protected from our enemy by The Blood of The Lamb and the word of our testimony or we'll be roadkill.

 

[Cross Reference]

All.

Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled? And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows. But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. And the gospel must first be published among all nations. But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: and let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: and let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: for false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: so ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Also, He said, "But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!" I don't believe that was a warning to women who are pregnant or nursing, but to churches who keep their parishioners childish. Everyone needs to be able to hear God's Voice for themselves in these last days or the enemy will be able to take us out. We need to be protected from our enemy by The Blood of The Lamb and the word of our testimony or we'll be roadkill.

I think you will find Jesus said those things to His Disciples who asked the question of Him. Having believed that gives a better understanding why He limited it to them.

 

[Aimiel]

I think you will find Jesus said those things to His Disciples who asked the question of Him. Having believed that gives a better understanding why He limited it to them.

So, let me get this straight, when He said, "And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch," He was ONLY talking to / about the twelve, right? :nono:

 

[Cross Reference]

So, let me get this straight, when He said, "And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch," He was ONLY talking to / about the twelve, right? :nono:

No! I said Jesus was talking to them and what He said to them was for ALL disciples to understand: "What I say unto you I mean for ALL My disciples-Christians to understand".

I hope that satisfies your question.

"Having believed that gives a better understanding why He limited it to them" __ All His disciples both in and of His immediate presence..

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

This is one of the best articles I've seen on the subject.

LambLion on the Rapture

 

[Lazy afternoon]

This is one of the best articles I've seen on the subject.

LambLion on the Rapture

It is well set out but makes the wrong distinctions between those believers resurrected and those believers not.

It also gives a rapture where another event similar to Acts ch 2 occurs which is hidden to them.

There is no 7 year period.

There is no time whatever when the saints are not in or on the earth or in its clouds.

LA