Remember When 45, As A Candidate, Said He'll Only Pick The Best of the Best?

The Barbarian

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Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

Here, let me put it in terms that even a rainbow flag waver can understand:

You gotta appreciate that the movement that founded the North American Man Boy Love Association has taken control of the Republican Party.

Far as I can see, that was a smear; no one has ever proven that Ted Cruz had anything to do with NAMBLA. I don't like Cruz, but I'd like to see more evidence than "he said."

Embrace your Republican allies, you owe a great deal of gratitude to them for destroying a once God-fearing Party.

Last few decades, they had lots of reasons to be afraid of God.
 

The Horn

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Betsy De Vos has removed protections for LGBT students in public schools . Typical of her . She's a homophobic bigot because of her religious beliefs . She thinks it's fine and dandy to allow LGBT students to be bullied and tormented and even the victims of physical violence . Thanks for nothing, Betsy .
 

The Barbarian

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The Trump administration is prohibiting officials at the nation’s top public health agency from using a list of seven words or phrases — including “fetus” and “transgender” — in official documents being prepared for next year’s budget.
Policy analysts at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta were told of the list of forbidden words at a meeting Thursday with senior CDC officials who oversee the budget, according to an analyst who took part in the 90-minute briefing. The forbidden words are “vulnerable,” “entitlement,” “diversity,” “transgender,” “fetus,” “evidence-based” and “science-based.”

Remember all that griping about political correctness from the right about the left.
Well, now they have their official list too. Words melt them too. LOL.

All hail the snowflake-in-chief.
 

The Barbarian

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But we don't need the Department of Education [for K through 12]. Yeah, the best she can do is nothing, or be a bill collector for higher education.

Can you name me one nation without a national educational policy that is in the top 30 nations in student achievement?

Tell us about it.
 

SabathMoon

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Can you name me one nation without a national educational policy that is in the top 30 nations in student achievement?

Tell us about it.
But too much government involvement means less academic liberty. Public education for K-12 doesn't not need a central control structure, and the national standards that we have are never enforced, and too many good ones are voluntary.

But college is different. It needs a debt collector and a system which punishes colleges who don't teach valued skills.
 

The Barbarian

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Barbarian asks:
Can you name me one nation without a national educational policy that is in the top 30 nations in student achievement?

You imply the United States doesn't already have one.

Here's a hint: We're the only one without a national education policy. And the evidence strongly indicates that our students (whose achievement scores in apples-to-apples tests in math and science are only slightly better than average) would benefit by such a policy.
 

The Barbarian

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Originally Posted by Eeset View Post
He is doing his best.

What a terrifying thought.

What if he was competent? We'd have a Muslim ban, a wall on our southern borders, Affordable Care Act gone, and a purge of non-heterosexuals from the military.

Be happy that this is the best he can do. If Trump was competent, it would be a disaster for America.
 

The Barbarian

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But too much government involvement means less academic liberty.

Less liberty for the local magnates, more liberty for individual citizens. It's why commoners tend to support kings against the other nobles; they have learned that a distant ruler is more likely to be fair than the local boss.

Public education for K-12 doesn't not need a central control structure,

That's what local school boards are for. A national policy as to what needs to be taught, along with local control as to how it is accomplished. This has been the most effective method in most nations. As you see, the least effective way is to lack an national policy at all.
 

CabinetMaker

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What if he was competent? We'd have a Muslim ban, a wall on our southern borders, Affordable Care Act gone, and a purge of non-heterosexuals from the military.

Be happy that this is the best he can do. If Trump was competent, it would be a disaster for America.

If he were competent he would be a bigger disaster for America. I do not have great confidence in his nor his appointees to lead this nation in way that is beneficial for all. I think the tax bill that was recently passed is proof of what Trump honestly values.
 

SabathMoon

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That's what local school boards are for. A national policy as to what needs to be taught, along with local control as to how it is accomplished. This has been the most effective method in most nations. As you see, the least effective way is to lack an national policy at all.
No, the least effective way is open borders, and forcing everyone to pay for bilingual Spanish English public schools. This has already happened.
 

The Barbarian

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No, the least effective way is open borders,

You do realize that immigration is not an educational issue, right? That's a different department.

and forcing everyone to pay for bilingual Spanish English public schools.

Or English, or French. That's what happens when you live in a country without an official language. There is no official language in the United States, so no language is established over any other. Which means that if a lot of people speak Urdu in a particular place, the government communicates in Urdu there.

This has already happened.

You might consider trying to change the law to suit your ideas. Otherwise, there's really nothing you can do about it.
 

jgarden

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Remember When 45, As A Candidate, Said He'll Only Pick The Best of the Best?

Does that pledge extend to "The Donald's" candidates for federal judgeships - such as "Brett Talley," a nominee who had never tried a case in court and unable to answer even the most basic of legal questions?

Despite being rated by the American Bar Association (ABA) as not qualified, the Senate Republicans on the "screening" panel unanimously "rubber-stamped" his nomination, before his glaring deficiencies were exposed in the full hearing and on national television!

An embarrassed White House has quietly withdrawn Talley's nomination, but apparently there are more of Trump's "best of the best" whom the ABA has also rated as unqualified, awaiting their committee hearings!
 
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SabathMoon

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You do realize that immigration is not an educational issue, right? That's a different department.
Low-skilled non-English speaking immigrants have expensive needs. They don't do well on English tests. I wonder how well Europe will be doing with its new foreign tongued low-skilled muslim immigrants.

The Barbarian said:
Or English, or French. That's what happens when you live in a country without an official language. There is no official language in the United States, so no language is established over any other. Which means that if a lot of people speak Urdu in a particular place, the government communicates in Urdu there.
You mean a country with porous borders forgot to state English should be the official language. It is whether you like it or not.

The Barbarian said:
You might consider trying to change the law to suit your ideas. Otherwise, there's really nothing you can do about it.
There is a lot which can be done for K-12. There is nothing in K-12 that most adults can't teach, except maybe if you don't know, and your first language is Spanish.
 

The Barbarian

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Low-skilled non-English speaking immigrants have expensive needs. They don't do well on English tests.

Same argument was used for Germans and Irish and Italians and so on. My observation, after many years of teaching and observing the children of Spanish-speaking immigrants going on to college and good careers, is that it's the American Dream as it has always worked. And yes, there have always been those who wanted to remove immigrants. But history has shown that they strengthen and build America. How could they not? They came here wanting not to make America into the place from which they came, but to get in on the opportunity that is America.

I wonder how well Europe will be doing with its new foreign tongued low-skilled muslim immigrants.

I suspect they'll have more difficulty than we do. Public schools were always set here, to assimilate newcomers and produce new Americans. So we're really good at it.

You mean a country with porous borders forgot to state English should be the official language.

Didn't seem as though the founders were all that concerned about it. As we grew, large numbers of foreign-speaking immigrants quickly adapted, even if there were enclaves where Italian, or French or Gaelic was commonly spoken.

There is a lot which can be done for K-12. There is nothing in K-12 that most adults can't teach

If they have a good scientific and liberal arts background. And understand how kids learn (because their brains are still developing, you have to tailor your teaching to fit where they are at the time). There's a lot of technical detail on how to teach effectively, and while there are some naturals out there, most people take about five years to come up to speed.
 

SabathMoon

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Same argument was used for Germans and Irish and Italians and so on. My observation, after many years of teaching and observing the children of Spanish-speaking immigrants going on to college and good careers, is that it's the American Dream as it has always worked. And yes, there have always been those who wanted to remove immigrants. But history has shown that they strengthen and build America. How could they not? They came here wanting not to make America into the place from which they came, but to get in on the opportunity that is America.
German immigrants typically didn't much German, and many European immigrants came from Canada. Cheap labor from Canada was not always good to the Northern United States. But slavery never enriches anything, and much of immigration is related to it.

I suspect they'll have more difficulty than we do. Public schools were always set here, to assimilate newcomers and produce new Americans. So we're really good at it.
I think we are also lucky in some ways.

Barbarian said:
Didn't seem as though the founders were all that concerned about it. As we grew, large numbers of foreign-speaking immigrants quickly adapted, even if there were enclaves where Italian, or French or Gaelic was commonly spoken.
Even European immigration is not sinless. It had impoverished the United States, but more pathetic was the Southeast.

Barbarian said:
If they have a good scientific and liberal arts background. And understand how kids learn (because their brains are still developing, you have to tailor your teaching to fit where they are at the time). There's a lot of technical detail on how to teach effectively, and while there are some naturals out there, most people take about five years to come up to speed.
I was suggesting if one doesn't know English, they can't do it in Spanish. My mistake. It takes bilinguals to correct how porous, our borders are. That's good schooling for bad borders.
 

The Barbarian

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German immigrants typically didn't much German,

I grew up in Iowa. The old folks in the 1960s could still speak German. Some areas, the Churches used German in services.

and many European immigrants came from Canada.

Apparently, not a significant source:
http://www.history.com/topics/u-s-immigration-before-1965

But slavery never enriches anything, and much of immigration is related to it.

Which states still have slavery?
 
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