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The ages of patriarchs correspond with lunar cycles.

Clete

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@Clete You have also referred me to the Witness of the Stars by Bullinger. I have already read this and I think I am on the same page as your as far as this is concerned. But there is NOTHING in the Bible that directly supports any of this. God only tells us the meaning of 1 star in the Bible (IIRC) and there is nothing in the Bible that says the head of the egyptian sphinx represents His virgin mother. There is nothing in the Bible that even comes close to saying anything like that. But you believe it. So do I.
I think Bullinger makes a good argument and that the preponderance of the evidence is heavily on the side of his thesis being true.

Not all truth has to come out of the bible but there is no such actual thing as a contradiction. The bible is truth and so any truth claim, particularly a theological one such as what Bullinger puts forward, must be consistent with the bible. I see nothing in Bullinger's teaching that is inconsistent with God's word.
 
Note also, that I have not merely made the claim that this theory of yours is of no value. I asked you directly what value it could possible have and what practical difference it could make. You had no answer.
I think you have made a lot of good points so far that I don't disagree with. But I did answer this question. I said that (to me at least) the difference this makes is none. Zero. I didn't write the paper but when I came across it there was no "Aha! Now I understand everything!" moment. My interest in it for the most part is extrabiblical, involving ancient astronomy, which is just a hobby of mine. I was already aware of the Ein-Gedi mosaic and the obvious astronomical references it contains and the paper gives a fairly in depth analysis of it by someone who has obviously worked and published in astronomical and atmospheric sciences. Yes, his conclusion is based on purely circumstantial evidence. But historical reconstructions often are. We don't have any actual writings from the time period that states "Yep, that's what we did". As I said, it could just be a coincidence. But it fits with most of my (amateurish) understanding of this particularly niche topic as well as with my belief that some ancients likely had a better grasp of astronomy than what is currently accepted by the mainstream. Otherwise I would have dismissed it all as complete gobbled gook. Which I obviously don't think that it is. Yet this doesn't change anything I believe about the Bible. As I said before, we all agree that at least one significant event in the Bible coincided with astronomical phenomena -none of us believe that star of Bethlehem was just a coincidence.

My motivation in posting about this is mainly that no one else was talking about it. The paper is relatively recent but I have been sitting on it for sometime now. I've trying handing it off in private to a couple other people, perhaps in hope me being able to avoid the drama and to save my own time it took for me to do this on my own..but no one else had the time or the interest. So I had to decided on my own what to do and I didn't feel that, simply not saying anything was the right thing to do.

Methuselah being almost 1000 years of age at his death just prior to Noah's flood. It presents these ages as factual not allegorical representations of anything, much less Lunar cycles. If Methuselah died at an age dramatically different than what is reported in Genesis then that would undermine the whole of Genesis. The whole bible, including the whole of the New Testament, is predicated on the veracity of Genesis. If Genesis is undermined, so is everything else.

Well the focus is the begatting ages. Not the death ages. But even still, if we found out for certain that these ages were recorded in a way to preserve some sort of calendric knowledge and that Moses perhaps had no idea how old exactly Methuselah was when he died, this would change nothing. It might bruise our egos a bit but it wouldn't undermine the Bible, just our prior understanding of it.

What if God just didn't want the names of say, planets or constellations to be read aloud from the Torah, over and over again, knowing that the Israelites had a bizarre tendency towards idol worship, so he told Moses to instead refer to them as the ages of the patriarchs instead? Would the entire New Testament fall apart? No! It wouldn't affect it at all! The Bible is never underminded. Only our egos.

See what I mean?
 
Likewise we have old writings that indicate the temple menorah represents in someway the sun and visible planets and E.W. Bullinger agrees that it's likely the standard of the 12 tribes bore some significance to the zodiac. But God didn't name these things "The Candlestick of The Planets" or "The Tribes of Sagittarius and Capricorn ect"
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
I think you have made a lot of good points so far that I don't disagree with. But I did answer this question. I said that (to me at least) the difference this makes is none. Zero. I didn't write the paper but when I came across it there was no "Aha! Now I understand everything!" moment. My interest in it for the most part is extrabiblical, involving ancient astronomy, which is just a hobby of mine. I was already aware of the Ein-Gedi mosaic and the obvious astronomical references it contains and the paper gives a fairly in depth analysis of it by someone who has obviously worked and published in astronomical and atmospheric sciences. Yes, his conclusion is based on purely circumstantial evidence. But historical reconstructions often are. We don't have any actual writings from the time period that states "Yep, that's what we did". As I said, it could just be a coincidence. But it fits with most of my (amateurish) understanding of this particularly niche topic as well as with my belief that some ancients likely had a better grasp of astronomy than what is currently accepted by the mainstream. Otherwise I would have dismissed it all as complete gobbled gook. Which I obviously don't think that it is. Yet this doesn't change anything I believe about the Bible. As I said before, we all agree that at least one significant event in the Bible coincided with astronomical phenomena -none of us believe that star of Bethlehem was just a coincidence.

My motivation in posting about this is mainly that no one else was talking about it. The paper is relatively recent but I have been sitting on it for sometime now. I've trying handing it off in private to a couple other people, perhaps in hope me being able to avoid the drama and to save my own time it took for me to do this on my own..but no one else had the time or the interest. So I had to decided on my own what to do and I didn't feel that, simply not saying anything was the right thing to do.
I have no problem with historical curiosities but this particular theory is on much shakier ground than it think you're willing to see at the moment.

The paper's author stating, “we have added the assumption that the sages… were trying to make each patriarch the ruler of a zodiac sign”, is the author's own wrench being thrown into the gears that he's trying to spin!

Well the focus is the begatting ages. Not the death ages. But even still, if we found out for certain that these ages were recorded in a way to preserve some sort of calendric knowledge and that Moses perhaps had no idea how old exactly Methuselah was when he died, this would change nothing. It might bruise our egos a bit but it wouldn't undermine the Bible, just our prior understanding of it.

What if God just didn't want the names of say, planets or constellations to be read aloud from the Torah, over and over again, knowing that the Israelites had a bizarre tendency towards idol worship, so he told Moses to instead refer to them as the ages of the patriarchs instead? Would the entire New Testament fall apart? No! It wouldn't affect it at all! The Bible is never underminded. Only our egos.

See what I mean?
Yes, I see what you're saying but notice how we have now come full circle...

"if we found out for certain..."

That's a high bar, right? As I said to you early on, we need to take the bible to mean what it seems to be saying unless we have reasons that compel (i.e. logically require) us to do otherwise. This means that any theory, historical or otherwise, that would imply the need to take Genesis to be allegorical in some significant sense, inherits that high bar of proof.

If we take the Bible to be God's word, then we have to treat it as such. Meaning that we take it for granted that it is the truth and treat it as something more significant that just an ancient document or a recording of history. We do not elevate the Bible to the point of worship, but when we encounter claims that call into question the plain meaning of the text, those claims should be met with a strong and disciplined skepticism that requires clear and compelling evidence before it is allowed to overturn what Scripture appears to say.
 
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