The Bundy Bunch Trial Begins

Jose Fly

Jose Fly

New member
The trial for the remaining occupiers of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge has begun in Portland this week.

You can CLICK HERE to follow Oregon Public Radio's coverage of the trial.

Updates to follow as the trial proceeds.
 
ok doser

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
i don't think anybody here cares


except for you

and you only care because you're trolling


go find some other website to bother :wave2:
 
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northwye

New member
Find out what a political prisoner is, and identify the victims of the "crimes" brought by the feds against the prisoners.

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." Matthew 7: 12

Matthew 7: 12 is one basis for the common law doctrine that in order for there to be a crime, there must be a victim.

The Capital C Church has gone off so far into false doctrines that it no longer teaches the Golden Rule.

The possible victims of the Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge by the Bundy people in early 2016 might have been the birdwatchers who would not have been able to go there to watch birds. But I remember seeing a video of locals coming to the Wildlife Refuge while it was under occupation. The appropriate charge for this occupation would have been a misdemeanor fine or a few weeks in jail, not death as happened to one of the Bundy group leaders or decades in a federal prison which is likely to be faced by most of the occupiers and also by those who took part in the Bundy Ranch event in 2014..
 
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Jose Fly

Jose Fly

New member
northwye said:
The possible victims of the Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge by the Bundy people in early 2016 might have been the birdwatchers who would not have been able to go there to watch birds.
Click to expand...

It's actually the federal employees who were not able to work during the armed occupation. And actually, some of those employees lived at the refuge, so they were prevented from a lot more than just work.
 
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northwye

New member
Some people who are interested in the conflict in the West between the ranchers and the Bureau of Land Management said in early 2016 that a mistake was made in occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. They lost some of their moral high ground that they gained in the 2014 Bundy Ranch Event by that occupation.

But it is interesting, if many Church Christians are on the side of the Bureau of Land Management rather than taking the side of the ranchers who have been threatened as a species in recent years.

Ranchers are rural people, or most of them are, and they have a rural tradition and a culture. That culture was part of an older American culture which has been under attack in the last 50 or more years by a more urban culture, and a culture which has been in the process of becoming more collectivized. Ranchers are pretty much the opposite of collectivized.
 
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northwye

New member
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. " John Adams

John Adams should have said that our Constitution was made only for a Christian people. But we can know that is what he meant.

And - our Constitution was made only for and is adequate only for people who are self-sufficient and independent, not for a collectivist society. And the doctrines of Christ, including Matthew 7: 12, are not followed very well by a culture and society which is becoming collectivized and has already lost a big part of its older self-sufficient and independent character. The present day Capital C Church is not independent of this collectivized culture, as it is called to be in James 4: 4 and in I John 2: 15.
 
commonsense

commonsense

Active member
northwye said:
John Adams should have said that our Constitution was made only for a Christian people. But we can know that is what he meant.

Apparently there is some debate that Adams, as an Unitarian, was actually a Christian. Possibly moreso than his successor Thomas Jefferson, as a deist, was.
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northwye

New member
Always arguments. It doesn't matter whether John Adams was a Unitarian. The quote attributed to him is true.

"Adams was raised a Congregationalist, since his ancestors were Puritans."

"By contrast, David L. Holmes has argued that Adams, beginning as a Congregationalist, ended his days as a Christian Unitarian, accepting central tenets of the Unitarian creed, but also accepting Jesus as the redeemer of humanity and the biblical account of his miracles as true."

Apparently Adams was never a Unitarian in the same way as Frank Lloyd Wright, who said that the only God you will ever know is your own ideals.
 
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northwye

New member
The Bundy boys and their friends should have stayed out of Oregon. They had some support in Utah. There are states which are in the West but are not the West as far as culture is concerned.
 
annabenedetti

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
northwye said:
The Bundy boys and their friends should have stayed out of Oregon. They had some support in Utah. There are states which are in the West but are not the West as far as culture is concerned.
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I'll bet now they're wishing they'd stayed out of Oregon.
 
Jose Fly

Jose Fly

New member
northwye said:
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. " John Adams

John Adams should have said that our Constitution was made only for a Christian people. But we can know that is what he meant.
Click to expand...

Oh, so you believe we were meant to be a Christian theocracy? Where do these Mormon ranchers fit in with that?
 
Jose Fly

Jose Fly

New member
northwye said:
The Bundy boys and their friends should have stayed out of Oregon. They had some support in Utah. There are states which are in the West but are not the West as far as culture is concerned.
Click to expand...

Oh just wait. Once they're done in Oregon they'll be shipped to Nevada to face trial for the 2014 standoff with the BLM, where they face much more serious charges. And since they declined plea bargains, whatever sentences they receive for each case will likely be served consecutively rather than concurrently, which means the Bundy boys are likely looking at spending much of the rest of their lives in federal prison.
 
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northwye

New member
There are videos in existence since 2014 which show the event of the stand off with the Bureau of Land Management squad of military type guys. One or more of these videos have audio which show that the BLM threatened to shoot anyone who protested their possession of the Bundy cattle. The key videos showing the crowd gathered near the BLM military squad indicate that the crowd there was mostly unarmed. No one had long guns in that crowd close to the BLM squad, and a few had hand guns, which were never drawn.

In this scenario who was the victim of the crimes the feds claim were committed that day? No one, on either side, fired a shot, and this is important? Those charged with serious crimes for the 2014 Bundy Ranch Event fit the definition of political prisoners more so then those who occupied the Wildlife Refuge in Oregon in early 2016.

Apparently the Bundy trial for the 2014 stand off will be in Las Vegas, Nevada. There may be more hope that a jury there will find them not guilty than the jury in Portland, Oregon. There was support for the Bundy people in small town Nevada near the Bundy ranch. While there was some local support in Oregon for the Bundy cause after the killing of the occupation leader, earlier there was not a great deal of local Oregon support for the Bundy people.
 
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northwye

New member
Is Kate Brown, Democratic governor of Oregon, an ideological sister of Angela Merkel and Hillary Clinton?

"On February 13, 2015, Governor John Kitzhaber announced his pending resignation, amid a public corruption scandal; Brown succeeded him on February 18, 2015 since the Oregon Constitution identifies the secretary of state as the successor when the governor leaves office prematurely."

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/03/kate_brown_identities_of_cops.html

This is from The Oregonian, March 08, 2016.

"Brown said Tuesday she's confident that the two Oregon State Police troopers who shot Finicum acted appropriately."

"Minutes earlier, Brown issued a statement saying the investigation surrounding FBI agents at the scene of Fincium's death were "troubling." She declined to comment further, citing an ongoing investigation."

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burn...oliticians-lavoy-finicum-death-investigation/

This is later, from May 20, 2016.

"More than a dozen politicians from the Arizona House of Representatives and Senate have written to Oregon Gov. Kate Brown, asking her to further investigate the death of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupier LaVoy Finicum."

"Responding to the letter, the Oregon Governor’s Office said state and local authorities have already investigated Finicum’s death, and the matter is closed."

http://www.bendbulletin.com/localst...or-releases-malheur-occupation-communications

This is from March 4, 2016 - on E Mail and other communications involving Kate Brown's office on the occupation of the wildlife refuge and ways to end it.

"On Jan. 15, Brett Brownscombe, the governor’s natural resource policy adviser, wrote about his recent discussions with Harney County Judge Steve Grasty and Grant County Commissioner Boyd Britton.

Brownscombe wrote that Britton told him he had confirmed that refuge occupiers had visited Grant County at least twice, meeting with Grant County Sheriff Glenn Palmer for lunch. Britton was concerned he “does not know where Sheriff Palmer stands,” Brownscombe wrote, and that if those then at the refuge returned to Grant County and attempted to occupy the courthouse, Forest Service office, or another building, it was possible Palmer would not enforce the law.

Brownscombe wrote what he described as a question asked by Britton.

“There is a lot of open road traveling between Harney and Grant Co.,” read Brownscombe’s email. “Doesn’t it seem like an opportunity for law enforcement to stop the occupiers on their way and make some arrests?”

"Eleven days later, Oregon State Police arrested occupation leaders Ammon and Ryan Bundy and others during traffic stops on the road between Harney and Grant counties. Occupier Robert “LaVoy” Finicum was shot and killed."

"On Jan. 18, state Sen. Brian Boquist, R-Dallas, wrote to Brown. Writing that he and the governor agreed about little beyond law enforcement, he urged Brown to put pressure on the FBI to set up a security perimeter around the refuge to “freeze out the occupiers peacefully.” "

"Two days later, Brown wrote to President Barack Obama and Attorney General Loretta Lynch. In her letter to Lynch, Brown asked the FBI to bring the occupation to an end.

“The residents of Harney County are being intimidated in their own hometown by armed criminals who appear to be seeking occasions for confrontation,” Brown wrote. “The harm being done to the innocent men, women and children of Harney County is real and manifest. With each passing day, tensions increase exponentially.”

The three leaders of the Occupation, Ammon Bundy, Ryan Bundy, and Robert LaVoy Finicum, were taken prisoner or shot and killed by Oregon state troopers and/or by FBI agents on January 26, 2016 in Harney county, Oregon, on the road to Grant county and a meeting where people there were waiting for them to speak.

Kate Brown called them criminals, and most of the authorities in Harney county wanted them out and arrested. But the sheriff of Grant county and many citizens of that county were waiting for Ammon and Ryan Bundy and LeVoy Fenicom to speak to them about the issues of federal ownership of most of the lands in several Western states - and state authorities from Arizona were concerned about the killing of Fenicom. Utah supported their cause to some extent. Kate Brown is a Democrat and appealed to the Democratic President and Attorney General to end the Occupation.
 
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