The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II

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DFT_Dave

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@DFT_Dave

If you cannot explain how a spacecraft can hover above the flat earth, then you have NO BUSINESS discussing the comparisons of images taken from these spacecraft with ANYTHING.

You claim to want to use logic and reason in this discussion. That is logical and reasonable.... so give us an answer. Your failure to do so will expose you for what you are... illogical and irrational.

Ok, let's do this.

Tesla vs. Einstein: The Ether & the Birth of the New Physics

"If we look at the structure of matter, we see that it is comprised of atoms, which is, essentially, electrons orbiting protons and neutrons. But neutrons are, by definition, protons sandwiched to electrons. So the fundamental structure of matter is just two particles, electrons and protons and a glue that binds these atoms into molecules, which are photons. These particles spin. What keeps them spinning? Ether theory suggests that elementary particles are absorbing ether all the time to maintain their spin. And when they do this, they emanate the absorbed energy as electromagnetic fields. That is the link between gravity and electromagnetism..."

"...Classical physics sees the force of gravity as some type of almost magical attractive force between stars and planets. Ether theory has a totally different view. The reason we fall back to the Earth when we jump up is not this mystical force of gravity, but rather it is because the Earth is constantly absorbing a tremendous amount of ether to keep all of its elementary particles spinning."

Electromagnetism is the primary force that holds everything together and moves things in the flat earth model covered by a dome.

--Dave
 

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Ok, let's do this.

Tesla vs. Einstein: The Ether & the Birth of the New Physics

"If we look at the structure of matter, we see that it is comprised of atoms, which is, essentially, electrons orbiting protons and neutrons. But neutrons are, by definition, protons sandwiched to electrons. So the fundamental structure of matter is just two particles, electrons and protons and a glue that binds these atoms into molecules, which are photons. These particles spin. What keeps them spinning? Ether theory suggests that elementary particles are absorbing ether all the time to maintain their spin. And when they do this, they emanate the absorbed energy as electromagnetic fields. That is the link between gravity and electromagnetism..."

"...Classical physics sees the force of gravity as some type of almost magical attractive force between stars and planets. Ether theory has a totally different view. The reason we fall back to the Earth when we jump up is not this mystical force of gravity, but rather it is because the Earth is constantly absorbing a tremendous amount of ether to keep all of its elementary particles spinning."

Electromagnetism is the primary force that holds everything together and moves things in the flat earth model covered by a dome.

--Dave
So your answer it to NOT answer.

So you now think that this is ANOTHER vast conspiracy?

NASA and ALL of the other space agency of ALL of the other countries that launch spacecraft are SECRETLY using electromagnetic spacecraft but openly documenting that they use other technologies instead?

Dishonest Dave, you've reached a new low.
 

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In the globe model it is said we actually look down at the horizon and it is always illustrated that way.

View attachment 26509 View attachment 26510

I don't know what the calculation is but you can see the prediction from the second pic that the higher up you go the farther down you will be looking at the horizon.

--Dave
Dishonest Dave, hard at work again.... SCALE Dave.... SCALE!!!

The person in your picture would be ~1000 miles TALL!

For a REAL person the earth is actually approximately FLAT per the view that you're faking.
 
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How Electromagnetic Propulsion Will Work
"For decades, the only means of space travel have been rocket engines that run off of chemical propulsion. Now, at the beginning of the 21st century, aerospace engineers are devising innovative ways to take us to the stars, including light propulsion, nuclear-fusion propulsion and antimatter propulsion.

"A new type of spacecraft that lacks any propellant is also being proposed. This type of spacecraft, which would be jolted through space by electromagnets, could take us farther than any of these other methods." --How Stuff Works

My guess is that NASA is already using electromagnetic propulsion thanks to Tesla.

--Dave
Great "proof" there DD.

NASA fools us with big fiery launches only to actually be using electromagnetic ships.

Dave's conspiracy runs VERY deep.
 

DFT_Dave

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No David, it doesn't. It's close but not quite.

In fact, it is very close. Close in the same sense the surface of water is level. It's actually very slightly curved but so slightly that for practical purposes, it's fine to discuss it in terms of being flat and level.

But close isn't exact. In actual fact, the theoretical horizon (i.e. the horizon line assuming no hills or other obstructions) is .043° below "the middle of our eyes", as you put it. A long way below the resolution of our vision.


The horizon line drop is much slower as you ascend than it is as you move along the surface. This is because you can see more and more of the surface as you ascend. But you can actually see the drop, if you go high enough and are paying close enough attention. At 40,000 ft, where large commercial aircraft cruse, the drop is about 2.5° which is the equivalent of about 5 widths of the full Moon. That not so much that you'd likely notice it from a plane for two reasons. First because it's not a huge difference and second because from that altitude, you lose easily recognizable reference points. But, as I said, if you're paying close attention, it would be detectable with the naked eye.

It would be all but physically impossible to "set the camera at the horizon" in a weather balloon, which is anything but a stable platform.

Further, something pretty close to 100% of cameras sent up on high altitude air craft (including balloon) are equipped with extremely wide angle, if not actual 'fish-eye' lenses, which give nice wide field of view images in exchange for distortions.

Interestingly, the distortions could actually be used to do the measurement. The horizon would only look flat in such a camera when the horizon line was passing directly through the center of the image (i.e. when the camera was pointed directly at the horizon). Any deviation above or below the horizon line would "bend" the horizon in the image. You could conceivable set up a computer to make constant adjustments to the camera angle to maintain a flat horizon line, which would force it to look further and further down as the altitude increased. This wouldn't give a perfect reading of the down angle because, while adjusting for the horizon line drop, it would also adjust for the actual curvature of the Earth itself which becomes more and more pronounced with altitude. As a result, any such experiment would give a larger down angle than is actually caused by the horizon line drop itself.

The Pythagorean Theorem has nothing to do with assuming anything at all. It has to do with the nature of right triangles - period. But no one suggested that the calculations themselves prove anything anyway, David.

If this were a new idea and this were still in the hypothesis stage of scientific inquiry, then the calculations would be considered a prediction of the globe Earth hypothesis.

The FET says the horizon line doesn't drop but the reality is that it does. Not only does it drop but it drops exactly in accordance with the math that you've been shown.

Yes, people have actually measured it...

Measuring Horizon Drop And Earth's Equatorial Bulge From Rocket Launches

Once again, the FET is flatly falsified by empirical data and the Pythagorean Theorem.

Once again, you will not be convinced.

Clete

Perspective means we see the horizon rise up before us at eye level when we look parallel to the ground below us.

If it is true that the ground appears to rise up then it is also true that it does so to eye level.

You can't say the ground appears to rise up but not to eye level without creating a self contradictory argument.

The horizon cannot both be appearing to rise up to eye level and be falling farther away as we ascend higher and higher into the sky. The edge around a ball gets small and smaller as we go higher higher so saying, "The horizon line drop is much slower as you ascend than it is as you move along the surface. This is because you can see more and more of the surface as you ascend", is inaccurate.

And that drop would be exponential not on a straight line but on a curve. The drop of 8 inches per mile "squared" is not 16 inch the next mile and 32 inches the third mile. The drop of a curved earth is 8 inches the 1st mile, 32 inch the second mile, and 72 inches the third mile. Elevating increases our view of this drop the same way--exponentially.

The horizon in the video you referenced moves up and down and is hardly anything we can get a fix on or a measurement from anymore than you can get a measurement from how far we supposedly look down to the horizon from standing on earth. Unfortunately, "a computer to make constant adjustments to the camera angle to maintain a flat horizon line" as you suggest, has not been used as yet. And I agree with you that would be helpful.

Even at low altitude the horizon stays at eye level and does has not dropped away from us. If ships can be seen dropping away from us at ground level then certainly we would notice the horizon dropping away from us in the same proportion as we ascend, I would think.

From the Verrazano Bridge the horizon across the ocean hits you right between the eyes just as it does when standing on the beach. From the tallest buildings in New York, I've been both at the top of the Empire State building and the Twin Towers, and the horizon in every direction hits you right between the eyes. During my last flight to Minneapolis from New York and back the horizon hit me right between the eyes.

In the globe earth theory I have to be told I'm really looking slightly down even though it seems to me I'm not.

The horizon can be obscured by a refraction causing an inferior image that reflects the sky above it making ships look as though they are in the air when they are not. In which case the visible water line that looks like the horizon is not the horizon but is below the hidden actual horizon. The horizon is hidden because the reflection of the sky blends into the actual sky above it.

View attachment 26512

--Dave
 
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DFT_Dave

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Wow. I spend I don't know how many months refusing to watch any of your stupid videos and then the one time I decide to hit the play button, the reason for my video boycott is reaffirmed and totally justified.

You cannot possibly believe that the video is shot all with the same camera! One camera is shooting straight down, the other off to the side. There's no evidence whatsoever that the high altitude images are related in any way to the balloon launch images. The video simply hard cuts to the high altitude images with no continuity whatsoever and the camera was never shown nor was the way it was set up and so you have no idea what sort of lens in being used at all. It's doesn't appear to be a fish eye but it doesn't have to be.

These videos are so ridiculously not convincing to anyone who can think, you really ought to rethink your willingness to post them. They do yourself no credit at all. In fact, they make you look stupid and naive.

Clete

You don't have to watch all of the video, or any of them if you don't want to.

I watch many videos for the very reason that some of them might be altered.

By the many videos from many sources we will discover the common pattern and a consistency of the story they tell us.

The best videos have no cuts but they are also the longest ones.

Videos are neither stupid nor smart, they are just videos.

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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Just some screenshots I took of the livestream David has so kindly linked to.
7af230d0db80b6b8aaed460c6f19fbb3.jpg
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Notice how the horizon is curved (better seen in the livestream itself) the same way no matter where Earth is in the frame?

View attachment 26513

View of earth from ISS

Notice anything different between your pics and the one I posted?

Do you think CGI/photoshop cannot alter images or video that is real to recreate what actually is not real? It's easy to overlay one image over another and make it look like it's the same image. It's easy to adjust for lighter or darker shadows.

The curve is not the same between your ISS pics and the ISS pic I posted, and it should be if the ISS maintains the same altitude in orbit. The cloud formations appear to be the same in size which suggests they are taken from the same elevation. The sun spot as seen in the two middle pics are very close to being the same as the pic I added but the effect is very different in that there are shadows under the clouds in one I posted but not the ones you posted.

ISS images are very inconsistent when compared to each other which is why we know they have all been altered one way or another.

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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"no matter where the Earth is in the frame"

That is the key point.

Notice also that the edges of solar cell array are nice and straight all the way to the edges of the images. There's no way to make the horizon curve without making the edges of those solar arrays curve as well. Unless you think that the solar array was manufactured with edges that are curved in just the exactly right manner so as to create the illusion of a round Earth beneath those solar arrays. Then again, there's always the Special FX catch all bin used to explain away all inconvenient video.

Clete

It's very easy to recreate and alter these types of pics/videos. See my response to JudgeRightly.

--Dave
 

JudgeRightly

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View attachment 26513

View of earth from ISS

Notice anything different between your pics and the one I posted?

Do you think CGI/photoshop cannot alter images or video that is real to recreate what actually is not real? It's easy to overlay one image over another and make it look like it's the same image. It's easy to adjust for lighter or darker shadows.

The curve is not the same between your ISS pics and the ISS pic I posted, and it should be if the ISS maintains the same altitude in orbit. The cloud formations appear to be the same in size which suggests they are taken from the same elevation. The sun spot as seen in the two middle pics are very close to being the same as the pic I added but the effect is very different in that there are shadows under the clouds in one I posted but not the ones you posted.

ISS images are very inconsistent when compared to each other which is why we know they have all been altered one way or another.

--Dave
Dave, is it at all possible that your image and the ones I posted are taken from two different cameras that have different internals (such as aperture, lenses, etc), and if so, is it possible that the differences themselves in the cameras are what cause the images to be different?

If so, then saying "oh they're different and therefore they must be altered" would be a very poor argument, not to mention an improper dismissal of otherwise excellent evidence against your position.
 

DFT_Dave

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So your answer it to NOT answer.

So you now think that this is ANOTHER vast conspiracy?

NASA and ALL of the other space agency of ALL of the other countries that launch spacecraft are SECRETLY using electromagnetic spacecraft but openly documenting that they use other technologies instead?

Dishonest Dave, you've reached a new low.

Military always keeps hidden it's advancements, NASA is military.

Does Area 51 ring a bell? Do you think they don't keep secrets?

That they do is why I prefer not to debate what spacecraft is out there and what is or is not possible over a flat earth or globe.

--David
 

DFT_Dave

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Dishonest Dave, hard at work again.... SCALE Dave.... SCALE!!!

The person in your picture would be ~1000 miles TALL!

For a REAL person the earth is actually approximately FLAT per the view that you're faking.

When you argue there is no visual evidence for flat earth because of the scale involved you can't turn around and say but by the same scale we can see the curvature of the earth when we see ships disappear over it.

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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Great "proof" there DD.

NASA fools us with big fiery launches only to actually be using electromagnetic ships.

Dave's conspiracy runs VERY deep.

Big fiery lanches don't tell us what is being put into the sky or how once in the sky it's being propelled.

--Dave
 

JudgeRightly

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Military always keeps hidden it's advancements, NASA is military.

Does Area 51 ring a bell? Do you think they don't keep secrets?

That they do is why I prefer not to debate what spacecraft is out there and what is or is not possible over a flat earth or globe.

--David

No, Dave, NASA is a civilian run organization. It's not military.
 

Clete

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You don't have to watch all of the video, or any of them if you don't want to.

I watch many videos for the very reason that some of them might be altered.

By the many videos from many sources we will discover the common pattern and a consistency of the story they tell us.

The best videos have no cuts but they are also the longest ones.

Videos are neither stupid nor smart, they are just videos.

--Dave

Nope, they're stupid, lying pieces of evil deception that you are actively participating in and lending the Christian name too. FOOL!
 

Nathon Detroit

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My guess is that NASA is already using electromagnetic propulsion thanks to Tesla.

--Dave
Well hey.... at least you gave me an answer. I appreciate that. It's insane.... but at least it's an answer.

Dave you are not looking for the truth. Admit it. This isn't just a mental exploration for you as you claimed it was. You are willing to go flow blown nut-job to maintain this theory. Electromagnetic propulsion (for space craft) is still a conceptual idea that could theoretically help guide and point a ship already in orbit or traveling through space. Making the jump to think they could use it to keep a spacecraft the size and shape of ISS hovering is not possible. Let alone to think they did that back in 1997 when the ISS was launched or way back in the 50's when the first satellites were sent into orbit.

Dave.... electromagnetic propulsion is not keeping the ISS circling above us.

I think you would be far better off and taken more seriously if you just admitted.... none of the flat earth stuff makes any sense but you like to believe it anyway. It's a hobby. No one will think any less of you for having a strange hobby as long as you acknowledge it as such.
 

DFT_Dave

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And yet you ignore perspective whenever it is convenient for you...

View attachment 26511

Flat earth view

These rays are not seen from the perspective of the viewer. These rays are coming downward from a singular source. We are not standing under them.

These rays are not coming from a vanishing point, they are coming from the sun. If we triangulate these rays the distance of the sun is very close and the sun is very small compared to the globe model.

Globe earth view problems

It's said that the rays of the sun hit the earth with parallel rays, but I would say a singular beam, and these rays of light are, or this beam of light is, refracted. But if that's the case then how could a singular beam of light, or many rays of light, that covers the whole sky look as though it's being refracted from a small area at a singular location--the sun?

If the sun is millions of miles away and casts a beam of light that covers half of the globe...and if that beam, or rays, of light hits our atmosphere and is refracted in "all" directions...why do we see any sun at all? Wouldn't we just have diffused light?

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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Dave, is it at all possible that your image and the ones I posted are taken from two different cameras that have different internals (such as aperture, lenses, etc), and if so, is it possible that the differences themselves in the cameras are what cause the images to be different?

If so, then saying "oh they're different and therefore they must be altered" would be a very poor argument, not to mention an improper dismissal of otherwise excellent evidence against your position.

Then we could argued that different lens create different curves, and that the true horizon is actually flat and not curved at all.

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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No, Dave, NASA is a civilian run organization. It's not military.

Ok, so Hitler's military rocket personal at the end of WWII are captured by our military and brought to the US and incorporated into our military to produce rockets for our offensive and defensive weapons was not military?

Sure :nuke:

--Dave
 
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