The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II

[patrick jane]

Here's an interesting video:

Which leads me to wonder, where are the protests at all the money being wasted by the US government in its efforts to maintain the conspiracy? How is that hidden in the annual federal budgets? It must cost millions of your tax money annually, your god-given money that you, as a Republican shouldn't have spent on lies that deny the reality of Genesis. Surely.

Why aren't you marching?

Stuart

What's to maintain? Everybody believes in the globe already. Why don't you get Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Lawrence Krauss and some old Carl Sagan. They're all bad used car salesmen used as spokesmen to amaze the dumb. Bill Nye is a walking joke.

 

[Stuu]

What's to maintain? Everybody believes in the globe already.

Well good, that's settled. We all believe the earth is a globe. End of thread.

Stuart

 

[patrick jane]

How Pythagoras and Eratosthenes gave us THE Flat Earth trump card

In this segment of a longer video I'm working on, I show how Pythagoras and Eratosthenes actually give Flat Earthers an irrefutable trump card. You may divert the discussion to the heavenly luminaries or launch into ad hominem attacks (as usual), but you will never be able to get out of checkmate on this one.

Nobody will comment on this I bet.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Well, since the Earth has repeatedly been shown to be a globe, your assertions about flat Earth gravity mean nothing.

Wazzup?

You don't wanna talk about velocity's effect on gravity anymore?

 

[patrick jane]

Wazzup?

You don't wanna talk about velocity's effect on gravity anymore?

:rotfl: :crackup:

 

[Stuu]

How Pythagoras and Eratosthenes gave us THE Flat Earth trump card

In this segment of a longer video I'm working on, I show how Pythagoras and Eratosthenes actually give Flat Earthers an irrefutable trump card. You may divert the discussion to the heavenly luminaries or launch into ad hominem attacks (as usual), but you will never be able to get out of checkmate on this one.

Nobody will comment on this I bet.

I'll play. I think I'll choose ad hominem attack: The video is wrong because its maker is a moron.

Obviously I have other reasons, like his complete lack of understanding of simple geometry, but I'll leave it at ad hom for now.

Stuart

 

[CabinetMaker]

Wazzup?

You don't wanna talk about velocity's effect on gravity anymore?

Velocity does noe effect gravity. Gravity effects velocity.

 

[DFT_Dave]

As they say, calling atheism a religion is a bit like calling 'not collecting stamps' a hobby.

Stuart

I didn't call atheism a religion.

A religion is a world view that is a belief that there is a God, or gods, of a supernatural realm, which would include a human soul/spirit. Atheism is also a world view that is a negation of such a realm.

A world view incorporates human origin with destiny out of which is derived meaning and morals.

Dynamic Free Theism: Origin & Destiny
http://www.dynamicfreetheism.com/Origin.html

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

It is possible for a constant in a mathematical solution to vary within a range and the solution is still valid. In this case, the gravitational attraction can vary by 3% and the system remains stable. The absolute gravity of the two bodies, the Earth and the Sun, does not change.

True. But you're neglecting magnitudes. In this case, a 3% variance does not effect the overall stability of the system.

Yes, I have heard that. So what?

Theories about the end of the universe

1. Big Freeze or heat death

2. Big Rip

3. Big Crunch

4. Big Bounce

A moving universe, a moving galaxy, and moving planets, are all under the same laws of physics. Neither gravity nor velocity are constant over time. There is not a single prediction about the destiny of the universe that does not have it either collapse or come apart. And yet there is this contradict that we have a constant velocity and gravitational pull that does not change.

Everything about cosmology today is self contradicting.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

The gravitational force between the earth and the sun is not constant. Can you explain what problem that actually presents?

Because, 4.51 billion years ago, an object about the size of Mars called Theia collided with the proto-earth, throwing up the material that would accete into the moon, and knocking the earth off its originally perpendicular axis. The angle explains the seasons on earth.

How does the flat earth fantasy explain seasons?

Stuart

Please, and you expect me, and everyone else, to just accept this a verified scientific fact?

--Dave

 

[Stuu]

Please, and you expect me, and everyone else, to just accept this a verified scientific fact?

Why not?

By the way, can you explain why the variation of gravitational attraction should be a problem?

Stuart

 

[Stuu]

I didn't call atheism a religion.

A religion is a world view that is a belief that there is a God, or gods, of a supernatural realm, which would include a human soul/spirit. Atheism is also a world view that is a negation of such a realm.

A world view incorporates human origin with destiny out of which is derived meaning and morals.

Dynamic Free Theism: Origin & Destiny
http://www.dynamicfreetheism.com/Origin.html

Atheism is one specific view about the world. But atheists hold a variety of opinions about origins, meaning and morality. It is quite common for atheists to hold to the scientific consensus in cases where science is relevant.

But given that you were discussing memes, I thought the connection was appropriate. Christianity is a meme, or as Dawkins would put it, a memeplex. I guess you could call it a meme of sorts to transmit 'there are no gods of any kind' through the population as a piece of cultural inheritence, but it is a negation of one fact, and it definitely isn't a memeplex in the way christianity is.

And the claim that I would be 'under' this meme, whatever that means, is a bit trivial. Can I be under no delusions, and call that a delusion?

Stuart

 

[DFT_Dave]

I don't see why you can't claim the flat earth fantasy and make it a heliocentric flat earth fantasy. There aren't that many geographical and astronomical observations made on earth that you haven't ignored or contradicted without evidence, so why not have the sun at the centre?

I have no trouble with the idea of applying a method of argument or debate that suits the subject matter at hand. But thesis vs antithesis does not fit an argument between a pseudoscientific claim like a flat earth and real science. There is no synthesis to be had, because the former is wrong, and the latter is right, or at least you can establish overwhelming probabilities for one over the other.

Beautifully put, for subject material that is dull as ditch water.

Stuart

Dull for an atheist, no doubt.

There have been actual experiments that prove a stationary earth, Michelson-Morley, Sagnac, and Airy. A flat stationary earth is empirically verifiable by all its inhabitants. An earth that predicates a drop of 8 in per mile squared has been proven false.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Atheism is one specific view about the world. But atheists hold a variety of opinions about origins, meaning and morality. It is quite common for atheists to hold to the scientific consensus in cases where science is relevant.

But given that you were discussing memes, I thought the connection was appropriate. Christianity is a meme, or as Dawkins would put it, a memeplex. I guess you could call it a meme of sorts to transmit 'there are no gods of any kind' through the population as a piece of cultural inheritence, but it is a negation of one fact, and it definitely isn't a memeplex in the way christianity is.

And the claim that I would be 'under' this meme, whatever that means, is a bit trivial. Can I be under no delusions, and call that a delusion?

Stuart

The delusion of atheism is a "self organizing" mindless universe.

You must admit the self contradiction.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Why not?

By the way, can you explain why the variation of gravitational attraction should be a problem?

Stuart

A constant variation is the problem, it's a self contradiction.

--Dave

 

[CabinetMaker]

Theories about the end of the universe

1. Big Freeze or heat death

2. Big Rip

3. Big Crunch

4. Big Bounce

A moving universe, a moving galaxy, and moving planets, are all under the same laws of physics. Neither gravity nor velocity are constant over time. There is not a single prediction about the destiny of the universe that does not have it either collapse or come apart. And yet there is this contradict that we have a constant velocity and gravitational pull that does not change.

Everything about cosmology today is self contradicting.

--Dave

If you get deep into the details of orbital mechanics you would find that the orbits of planets and moons do change ever so slightly over time. The rotation of the Earth is slowing because of tidal effects. We usually neglect these changes as they are so small they do not effect the orbiting of a new satellite. nothing about cosmology is self contradict. Your understanding of cosmology is so superficial that you cannot begin to begin to see how it fits together. If you truly want to understand cosmology, quit watching YouTube and enroll in a class at your local community college. If you are truly serious about this, as you claim to be, then do some serious research by actually taking a class.

 

[Clete]

I have to trust your judgment of his character. So the only charitable action is to treat him as a victim of a meme. The human brain is vulnerable, and memes like the flat earth fantasy are good at finding ways to exploit the vulnerabilities.

I view christians as victims of the christian meme. I can see how intoxicating it could be.

Stuart

The difference being that a rational argument can be made for the later.

 

[Clete]

Dull for an atheist, no doubt.

There have been actual experiments that prove a stationary earth, Michelson-Morley, Sagnac, and Airy. A flat stationary earth is empirically verifiable by all its inhabitants. An earth that predicates a drop of 8 in per mile squared has been proven false.

--Dave

This is a lie, David.

You've lowered yourself to repeating known lies.

Way to go!

 

[Clete]

Please, and you expect me, and everyone else, to just accept this a verified scientific fact?

--Dave

You mean like the way you accept an idiot making claims on a youtube video while disbelieving everyone else?

 

[Clete]

What's to maintain? Everybody believes in the globe already. Why don't you get Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Lawrence Krauss and some old Carl Sagan. They're all bad used car salesmen used as spokesmen to amaze the dumb. Bill Nye is a walking joke.

Are you really this stupid?

What's to maintain?

How about the 18,000 employees of NASA, which are apparantly doing nothing at all other than propagating a conspiracy.

Do you think Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Lawrence Krauss and other professional scientists work for free? Someone is paying them to perpetuate the lie, right?

And these are just the people in the first layer of the conspiracy. There are hundreds of companies that are headquartered within 50 miles of my house that do nothing at all other than work as subcontractors for NASA and that do not count toward the 18,000 of actual NASA employees.

Then there's the hundreds of thousands who work for the military, At least tens of thousands of which must also be engaged in the propagation of the globe earth lie, including anyone engaged in work with GPS or any other military satellite. Not to mention the entire Air Force who surely must know that flying in so called "Great Arcs" aren't actually the fastest, shortest distance to their target destination.

That then leads us to the entire aviation industry where yet another group of thousands of individuals must know that they are wasting tons of fuel every day flying around in these wasteful arcs just so as to perpetuate the myth of the round earth.

The list goes on for what seems like forever. There is the CIA, NSA, FBI, Homeland Security, and perhaps a dozen other governmental agencies as well as hundreds of technology companies, all of which much have hundreds or thousands of people who would need to know that the Earth wasn't really round and must be engaged in perpetuating the globe Earth lie.

AND THAT'S JUST THIS ONE COUNTRY!

There is a similar list of people in every technologically advanced nation on Earth (i.e. any nation technologically advanced enough to have an radar controlled airport), which is pretty nearly all of them, by the way.

If the Earth is flat then the globe Earth conspiracy occupies more time and economic resources than any other single endeavor and is the single most unifying issue of all time. Every nation on Earth, with the exception of several on the continent of Africa which have no economy and next to no people for that matter, are all in perfect lock step unison on the issue of perpetuating the completely useless lie that keeps everyone thinking that the Earth isn't flat.

"What's there to maintain?", indeed!

Clete