The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II

[patrick jane]

In fact, you are - the crazy one.

I cannot believe - I mean I literally cannot believe you wrote that post.

Now math doesn't work and the mathematical equations that tell you how circles work somehow also works on a flat surfaces!?

Do you know what a tangent is, Patrick? (Serious question. I'm not being facetious or sarcastic.)

Let me just tell you what it is....

A tangent is a straight line or plane that is perpendicular (i.e. at a 90° angle) to the radius of a circle that touches the circle at a single point. A tangential line, started at any point on a circle gets further and further away from the circle according to a very specific equation. Here is a full explanation upon which any measurement I make will be based...

The Earth's radius (r) is 6371 km or 3959 miles, based on numbers from Wikipedia,
which gives a circumference (c)of c = 2 * π * r = 40 030 km

We wish to find the height (h) which is the drop in curvature over the distance.

Using the circumference we find that 1 kilometer has the angle
360° / 40 030 km = 0.009°. The angle (a) is then a = 0.009° * distance.

The derived formula h = r * (1 - cos a) is accurate for any distance.​

You gave more math details on tangent and the math you show is in that trig video I posted. You're only repeating that. As you say, this has been done before many times. We know where Wiki gets their numbers.​

Now, that math does not have anything to do with the Masons and it doesn't have anything to do with whether the Earth is flat, round, square or shaped like a football. It doesn't have anything to do with anything other that the nature if circles and tangential lines. It's totally pure unadulterated geometry, not philosophy, religion, cosmology or any other such thing that could in any way bias the numbers that derive from it.

Nothing can get in the way? Interesting that now math no longer has anything to do with this and it's NOT Masonic. Math has nothing to do with anything other than the "nature" of, what happened to math demonstrating empirical measurements? Maybe it's all relative?

If the Earth is flat, then bodies of water ought to be the flattest things we can find. I should be able to set up a telescope to look straight and flat across a long body of water and see no "drop" it is surface over that distance. If, on the other hand, the Earth is a sphere with a radius of 3959 miles then I should get a drop of .67 feet (8.04 inches) over a distance of one mile. That is significant enough to measure without needing specialized equipment beyond what I already own.

Yes sea level, water is flat. With a telescope, like dozens of amateur videographed proofs, this proof, if unaltered and original will only add to flat Earth Truth. NOT Masonic Math but you avoided using the .666 and rounded up to.67, LOL.

There is a pond within driving distance of my house where I can achieve a line of sight, continuous water surface distance of approximately 1.3 miles. If the Earth is a sphere of the stated size, that should produce a "drop" in the surface of the water of approximately 13.5 inches! That should be well within any margin of error that is produced by human error in making the measurement as well as other variables like waves on the surface. I say "should be" because I've never actually made an attempt to do it and I don't want to assume that I've accounted for every variable.

Exactly, like how water evaporation distorts perception at a distance. You have a fondness for water. Australia is upside down too and water sticks to convex surfaces despite reality PROVING to the contrary

So, is there anything about what I just said that your lunatic mind can come up with to dispute? Do you agree that if the Earth is flat that any such measurement should be zero? (Accounting, of course, for a margin of error but in any case much closer to zero than the 13.5 inches predicted by geometry.)

I might find something to dispute, as lunatics always do.. Maybe you will too?

If so, would doing such a measurement and coming up with a measurement anything significantly removed from zero (never-mind anything close to 13 inches) be sufficient to snap you out of this lunacy?

Interesting that this experiment is on water and only about 1.3 miles, but then you know what value of clarify... Your results will be murky at best and I know this before you even took the eyepiece off the telescope. As we saw in the curve formula 8 inches per mile squared means even if you went out just 2 miles, the "drop" would be 32", a little more of a significant difference wouldn't you say?

 

[ThermalCry]

Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[musterion]

"Masonic Math"?

*leaving, shutting door quietly behind myself*

 

[Clete]

I'm done with this!

I've asked a few people to help me with that experiment and if they agree (which I doubt) then I'll go ahead and do it but I now no longer care anything about it.

You all can waste you time discussing this all you like but I've read the last syllable of this insanity that I intend to.

I'm unsubscribing from this thread and won't be posting anything at all about this topic again.

I'm out! :wave2:

 

[patrick jane]

I've seen Clete do this many times when he starts losing a debate. I only repeated what he said. Yes Clete, the math IS the same as in the video. See, the video explains the debunking of the indisputable math. That's why Clete won't watch.

He wants to focus on conspiracies and pretend that's what I'm saying when it's obvious I'm not. 666 shows up more than a few times in some important calculations of the shape of the earth and the many "space" related theories that prop up the globe delusion. It got the nickname Masonic math a long long time ago. I didn't invent the term. Like Obamacare for instance. Just a name for the deceptive way the calculations are finalized.

You won Clete, I'll go to hell cuz you told me to and I'm making math a conspiracy and "questioning the veracity of math". NOT !!!

 

[patrick jane]

I have not and will not watch any of your videos. I didn't get the math from anything you've posted.


In the way of what?


I don't even know what the hell you're talking about! It's just math! It works for every circle in existence. It makes no difference if the Masons do the math or if Mormons do the math or if I do the math or if you do the math. The pure facts of reality is that the surface of a circle (or sphere) moves away from a tangential line at a very specific rate. It makes no difference how big or small the circle is or who drew it or whether you're talking about a baseball or the Moon or any other round object you care to name!

MATH IS NOT SUBJECT TO CONSPIRACIES! It either works or it doesn't. There's only about a million different ways you can confirm the veracity of the math.


This is literally making me angry.

You don't get to question the veracity of math. It's stupidity.

Go to Hell!

I don't give a damn what you think or believe.

Don't ever speak to me again. Good bye and good residence.

Ok, good residence then.

 

[musterion]

Well this is...is...

https://nypost.com/2018/05/02/flat-earthers-lean-into-insane-theories-at-uk-conference/

 

[patrick jane]

Well this is...is...

https://nypost.com/2018/05/02/flat-earthers-lean-into-insane-theories-at-uk-conference/

Yeah, as you already know but don't care and ignore, real flat earthers don't go to opposition corporate controlled and paid for "conferences" They are shill operations to discredit the real truth. So continue down the path of believing mainstream sources.

 

[AHPeeb]

I think the real problem is that the argument is about using math to prove or disprove something when in reality, you don't have to use math at all. Would any of you use math to prove that an apple is a fruit? No. You would just observe that the apple grew from the flower of the tree.

Observation is what defines the difference between science fact and theory. This is why the Big Bang Theory, Theory of Evolution, String Theory, etc are all theories and can't be proven because we can't observe them in action.

The Earth being round we CAN observe (and have) and it's really not that hard. Many commercial flights cross over the Antarctic, there have been historical flights to cross directly over the South Pole, there is a tourist company that can take you to the South Pole (90 degrees south).

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[JudgeRightly]

I think the real problem is that the argument is about using math to prove or disprove something when in reality, you don't have to use math at all. Would any of you use math to prove that an apple is a fruit? No. You would just observe that the apple grew from the flower of the tree.

Observation is what defines the difference between science fact and theory. This is why the Big Bang Theory, Theory of Evolution, String Theory, etc are all theories and can't be proven because we can't observe them in action.

The Earth being round we CAN observe (and have) and it's really not that hard. Many commercial flights cross over the Antarctic, there have been historical flights to cross directly over the South Pole, there is a tourist company that can take you to the South Pole (90 degrees south).

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"By two or three witnesses a matter is established..." -God

Observational evidence = one witness
Math = one witness
Historical evidence = one witness

 

[patrick jane]

"By two or three witnesses a matter is established..." -God

Observational evidence = one witness
Math = one witness
Historical evidence = one witness

Math and history are witnesses? Not in the Bible they aren't. What other leaps of logic and science based faith do you make? Rhetorical. I already know.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Math and history are witnesses? Not in the Bible they aren't. What other leaps of logic and science based faith do you make? Rhetorical. I already know.

So using historical evidence is out of the question when trying to determine something that happened in the past... Gotcha... Thanks to you, we can now no longer solve cold-case files.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Math and history are witnesses? Not in the Bible they aren't. What other leaps of logic and science based faith do you make? Rhetorical. I already know.

Tell me, PJ, how many times were people in the Old Testament referred to or referenced in the new? What about events and places? Were they used by the person in the NT to make his point?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Math and history are witnesses? Not in the Bible they aren't. What other leaps of logic and science based faith do you make? Rhetorical. I already know.

And what about using math to predict outcomes? I know that without math, my car's engine wouldn't function at all, my garage door wouldn't open, or would open too fast and damage my house, my TV wouldn't function properly, etc...

Bridges wouldn't be able to stand under their own weight, buildings would crumble while being built, airplanes wouldn't even make it off the ground, let alone fall out of the sky....

I could go on, but to make my point, think of all the things just that you yourself interact with on a daily basis, and think of the engineering that went into that product. I can almost guarantee you that, at the very least, addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, were used at some point to make that product or item.

 

[AHPeeb]

Two or three different individuals. That passage is in 2 Corinthians and is about the people who witnessed Christ risen. The witnesses Paul is talking about are people, not school subjects.
You do understand that it is possible to lie with math right? Advertisers do it all the time. 9 out of 10 dentists recommend... 5 out of 5 doctors say.... 99 percent of scientists agree.... All of these statements that you doubt have heard before, though technically are true with math, can actually be fixed and faked. Climate Science is the largest example of this how every consecutive year is always labeled the hottest year on record when it was discovered that the numbers for the past 10 or so years have all been doctored and any low temperatures were thrown out.

Don't not believe your own eyes. According to the math, no one can come back from the dead, yet we know that it happened because of the people who witnessed it.

"By two or three witnesses a matter is established..." -God

Observational evidence = one witness
Math = one witness
Historical evidence = one witness

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk

 

[JudgeRightly]

Two or three different individuals. That passage is in 2 Corinthians and is about the people who witnessed Christ risen. The witnesses Paul is talking about are people, not school subjects.

I didn't say "eyewitnesses."

I said witness(es).

If you need two or three eyewitnesses (according to you) to establish that this suspect murdered that woman in the middle of nowhere with no one around, then you may as well let the suspect go, because he made sure no one was around to witness his crime.

That's why God said "witnesses", and not "eyewitnesses." The knife with the suspect's fingerprints and the victim's blood on it is a witness. The camera footage that shows the suspect walking out of the alley where the murder was committed is a witness the photos the suspect took of his victim for months in advance of the murder are witnesses.

"Two or three witnesses" is the standard God uses. Changing that to mean "eyewitnesses" is not only wrong and a sin, but renders any form of logic almost completely invalid.

You do understand that it is possible to lie with math right?

You can say, 1 + 1 = 3 all you like, that doesn't make it true. So no, math doesn't lie. You can lie about math, you can use math incorrectly. But that doesn't mean that math is untrustworthy.

Advertisers do it all the time. 9 out of 10 dentists recommend... 5 out of 5 doctors say.... 99 percent of scientists agree.... All of these statements that you doubt have heard before, though technically are true with math, can actually be fixed and faked. Climate Science is the largest example of this how every consecutive year is always labeled the hottest year on record when it was discovered that the numbers for the past 10 or so years have all been doctored and any low temperatures were thrown out.

Manipulating and twisting data to bias one's own preconceived notions is not a proper use of math. But again, that doesn't mean that "Mathematics" are untrustworthy. It just means that humans lie to promote their worldview. True math will always reflect reality.

2 + 2 WILL ALWAYS EQUAL 4.

(Unless you're in base 4... in which case it equals 10, but even that shows the reliability of math.)

Don't not believe your own eyes. According to the math, no one can come back from the dead, yet we know that it happened because of the people who witnessed it.

Don't discount other witnesses.

A few examples: Mount Moriah, the Garden Tomb, Golgotha, etc...

 

[AHPeeb]

You didn't say "eyewitnesses" but the Bible makes it clear that it is talking about eyewitnesses. You used 2 Corinthians 13:1 as your point that 2 witnesses establish a matter, but in every translation of the Bible that I can find, it always includes that how a matter is established is by the "mouth" or "testimony" of those 2 or 3 witnesses indicating that the passage in question is referring to human beings as witnesses as inanimate objects don't have mouths and can't speak. You quoted the Bible incorrectly is my argument.

As I've said before, you can use math and science to prove whatever you want to. That is why we're not supposed to put our faith in math and science because that same math can be used to prove God doesn't exist or creation isn't real. Putting your faith in math and science sounds like a great way to have your faith shattered one day.

And also like I've said before. Why even speculate with math what you can actually observe with your own eyes? Private companies are now going to space and even aim to make settlements on Mars. I'm sure you could find someone that would actually take you into space if it meant proving the Earth is round. No math required.

I didn't say "eyewitnesses."

I said witness(es).

If you need two or three eyewitnesses (according to you) to establish that this suspect murdered that woman in the middle of nowhere with no one around, then you may as well let the suspect go, because he made sure no one was around to witness his crime.

That's why God said "witnesses", and not "eyewitnesses." The knife with the suspect's fingerprints and the victim's blood on it is a witness. The camera footage that shows the suspect walking out of the alley where the murder was committed is a witness the photos the suspect took of his victim for months in advance of the murder are witnesses.

"Two or three witnesses" is the standard God uses. Changing that to mean "eyewitnesses" is not only wrong and a sin, but renders any form of logic almost completely invalid.



You can say, 1 + 1 = 3 all you like, that doesn't make it true. So no, math doesn't lie. You can lie about math, you can use math incorrectly. But that doesn't mean that math is untrustworthy.



Manipulating and twisting data to bias one's own preconceived notions is not a proper use of math. But again, that doesn't mean that "Mathematics" are untrustworthy. It just means that humans lie to promote their worldview. True math will always reflect reality.

2 + 2 WILL ALWAYS EQUAL 4.

(Unless you're in base 4... in which case it equals 10, but even that shows the reliability of math.)



Don't discount other witnesses.

A few examples: Mount Moriah, the Garden Tomb, Golgotha, etc...

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk

 

[JudgeRightly]

You didn't say "eyewitnesses" but the Bible makes it clear that it is talking about eyewitnesses.

To someone who isn't paying attention to what they're reading, of course it says "eyewitnesses."

You used 2 Corinthians 13:1 as your point that 2 witnesses establish a matter, but in every translation of the Bible that I can find, it always includes that how a matter is established is by the "mouth" or "testimony" of those 2 or 3 witnesses indicating that the passage in question is referring to human beings as witnesses as inanimate objects don't have mouths and can't speak. You quoted the Bible incorrectly is my argument.

Funny how you think I'm quoting 2 Corinthians 13:1. Not that it matters, but I'm quoting what that verse is quoting. Actually, it does matter, because context is important.

“One witness shall not rise against a man concerning any iniquity or any sin that he commits; by the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established.If a false witness rises against any man to testify against him of wrongdoing,then both men in the controversy shall stand before the Lord, before the priests and the judges who serve in those days.And the judges shall make careful inquiry, and indeed, if the witness is a false witness, who has testified falsely against his brother,then you shall do to him as he thought to have done to his brother; so you shall put away the evil from among you.And those who remain shall hear and fear, and hereafter they shall not again commit such evil among you.Your eye shall not pity: life shall be for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. - Deuteronomy 19:15-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy19:15-21&version=NKJV

According to you, the word witness in that verse means "eyewitness."

Yet that's not what the word (H5707 עד ('ed)) means. It means "witness," and is used to describe both the witness of things and of persons. For example:

Now therefore, come, let us make a covenant, you and I, and let it be a witness between you and me.” - Genesis 31:44 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis31:44&version=NKJV

As I've said before, you can use math and science to prove whatever you want to. That is why we're not supposed to put our faith in math and science because that same math can be used to prove God doesn't exist or creation isn't real. Putting your faith in math and science sounds like a great way to have your faith shattered one day.

And also like I've said before. Why even speculate with math what you can actually observe with your own eyes? Private companies are now going to space and even aim to make settlements on Mars. I'm sure you could find someone that would actually take you into space if it meant proving the Earth is round. No math required.

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk

You didn't say "eyewitnesses" but the Bible makes it clear that it is talking about eyewitnesses. You used 2 Corinthians 13:1 as your point that 2 witnesses establish a matter, but in every translation of the Bible that I can find, it always includes that how a matter is established is by the "mouth" or "testimony" of those 2 or 3 witnesses indicating that the passage in question is referring to human beings as witnesses as inanimate objects don't have mouths and can't speak. You quoted the Bible incorrectly is my argument.

As I've said before, you can use math and science to prove whatever you want to. That is why we're not supposed to put our faith in math and science because that same math can be used to prove God doesn't exist or creation isn't real. Putting your faith in math and science sounds like a great way to have your faith shattered one day.

And also like I've said before. Why even speculate with math what you can actually observe with your own eyes? Private companies are now going to space and even aim to make settlements on Mars. I'm sure you could find someone that would actually take you into space if it meant proving the Earth is round. No math required.

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk

You didn't say "eyewitnesses" but the Bible makes it clear that it is talking about eyewitnesses.

To someone who isn't paying attention to what they're reading, of course it says "eyewitnesses."

You used 2 Corinthians 13:1 as your point that 2 witnesses establish a matter, but in every translation of the Bible that I can find, it always includes that how a matter is established is by the "mouth" or "testimony" of those 2 or 3 witnesses indicating that the passage in question is referring to human beings as witnesses as inanimate objects don't have mouths and can't speak. You quoted the Bible incorrectly is my argument.

Funny how you think I'm quoting 2 Corinthians 13:1. Not that it matters, but I'm quoting what that verse is quoting. Actually, it does matter, because context is important.

“One witness shall not rise against a man concerning any iniquity or any sin that he commits; by the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established.If a false witness rises against any man to testify against him of wrongdoing,then both men in the controversy shall stand before the Lord, before the priests and the judges who serve in those days.And the judges shall make careful inquiry, and indeed, if the witness is a false witness, who has testified falsely against his brother,then you shall do to him as he thought to have done to his brother; so you shall put away the evil from among you.And those who remain shall hear and fear, and hereafter they shall not again commit such evil among you.Your eye shall not pity: life shall be for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. - Deuteronomy 19:15-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy19:15-21&version=NKJV

(And there are many other places God says "two or three witnesses shall establish a matter, especially in the OT. If you need more, I will provide them.)

According to you, the word witness in that verse means "eyewitness." So according to you in order to convict a murderer in a criminal court, there has to be at least two people who saw the murder with their own eyes. According to you, Hardly any murderers would ever be convicted, because the only "eyewitness" is the victim, who clearly cannot testify against him in court, and himself, and I get the feeling that a murderer won't want to incriminate himself by admitting he did it... Do you see the problem that arises when you assume the word witness means "eyewitness" in every case all the time?

Yet that's not what the word (H5707 עד ('ed)) means. It means "witness," and is used to describe both the witness of things and of persons. For example:

Now therefore, come, let us make a covenant, you and I, and let it be a witness between you and me.” - Genesis 31:44 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis31:44&version=NKJV

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=h5707

As I've said before, you can use math and science to prove whatever you want to.

Except that's not what I said.

I said that math is reliable. People can twist results, or be dishonest in the way they present data. But like I said above, 2 + 2 = 4 (in base 10, just to keep things simple) ALWAYS. No philosophy, beliefs, doctrines, no one can change the FACT that 2 + 2 = 4. Someone can manipulate data so that it's biased one direction or another, but whether it reflects reality is another matter entirely. Yet Mathematics hasn't become less reliable.

That is why we're not supposed to put our faith in math and science

I didn't say "put your faith in math and science." I said that we can trust that mathematics and science (when done appropriately) are reliable.

because that same math can be used to prove God doesn't exist or creation isn't real.

Incorrect. Mathematical and physical laws reflect God's nature, because laws cannot be created, only discovered or revealed, and therefore must have always been a part of His nature, because God has no beginning.

If anything, math and science can ONLY be used to prove God's existence, and cannot prove otherwise (and by that I mean that if someone is doing math or science, and they come up with a result that contradicts God or reality, then they've most likely done something wrong, or are interpreting the results in a manner other than the way it should be.

Putting your faith in math and science sounds like a great way to have your faith shattered one day.

And also like I've said before. Why even speculate with math what you can actually observe with your own eyes?

Using that logic, you would rather observe two vehicles, with one family of five in each, crash in an intersection to figure out how many people would be injured or killed, and then base the next batch of vehicles you make on those results. Rinse and repeat.

Predictions go a long way in almost EVERY aspect of life. Heck, I use basic math every day to predict (to some extent) what my day will be like, where I'll be, etc. I drive a truck for a living, and if my company didn't use basic math to speculate/predict, they would NEVER have any loads delivered on time, and no one would get paid.

In other words, what you say is utter stupidity.

Private companies are now going to space and even aim to make settlements on Mars.

If I could go to Mars for vacation in my lifetime, I totally would do it. Go private industries!

I'm sure you could find someone that would actually take you into space if it meant proving the Earth is round. No math required.

Which is the same argument we make to Flat Earthers. If you really want to know, you would put together a "gofundme" page or something and send a highly visible, well known FE'er and send them on such a rocket. Yet they won't, because they know it's nonsense. Observational evidence free for the taking (once they pay to get into orbit), and they want nothing to do with it.

 

[AHPeeb]

To someone who isn't paying attention to what they're reading, of course it says "eyewitnesses."



Funny how you think I'm quoting 2 Corinthians 13:1. Not that it matters, but I'm quoting what that verse is quoting. Actually, it does matter, because context is important.

“One witness shall not rise against a man concerning any iniquity or any sin that he commits; by the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established.If a false witness rises against any man to testify against him of wrongdoing,then both men in the controversy shall stand before the Lord, before the priests and the judges who serve in those days.And the judges shall make careful inquiry, and indeed, if the witness is a false witness, who has testified falsely against his brother,then you shall do to him as he thought to have done to his brother; so you shall put away the evil from among you.And those who remain shall hear and fear, and hereafter they shall not again commit such evil among you.Your eye shall not pity: life shall be for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. - Deuteronomy 19:15-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy19:15-21&version=NKJV

According to you, the word witness in that verse means "eyewitness."

Yet that's not what the word (H5707 עד ('ed)) means. It means "witness," and is used to describe both the witness of things and of persons. For example:

Now therefore, come, let us make a covenant, you and I, and let it be a witness between you and me.” - Genesis 31:44 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis31:44&version=NKJV









To someone who isn't paying attention to what they're reading, of course it says "eyewitnesses."



Funny how you think I'm quoting 2 Corinthians 13:1. Not that it matters, but I'm quoting what that verse is quoting. Actually, it does matter, because context is important.

“One witness shall not rise against a man concerning any iniquity or any sin that he commits; by the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established.If a false witness rises against any man to testify against him of wrongdoing,then both men in the controversy shall stand before the Lord, before the priests and the judges who serve in those days.And the judges shall make careful inquiry, and indeed, if the witness is a false witness, who has testified falsely against his brother,then you shall do to him as he thought to have done to his brother; so you shall put away the evil from among you.And those who remain shall hear and fear, and hereafter they shall not again commit such evil among you.Your eye shall not pity: life shall be for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. - Deuteronomy 19:15-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy19:15-21&version=NKJV

(And there are many other places God says "two or three witnesses shall establish a matter, especially in the OT. If you need more, I will provide them.)

According to you, the word witness in that verse means "eyewitness." So according to you in order to convict a murderer in a criminal court, there has to be at least two people who saw the murder with their own eyes. According to you, Hardly any murderers would ever be convicted, because the only "eyewitness" is the victim, who clearly cannot testify against him in court, and himself, and I get the feeling that a murderer won't want to incriminate himself by admitting he did it... Do you see the problem that arises when you assume the word witness means "eyewitness" in every case all the time?

Yet that's not what the word (H5707 עד ('ed)) means. It means "witness," and is used to describe both the witness of things and of persons. For example:

Now therefore, come, let us make a covenant, you and I, and let it be a witness between you and me.” - Genesis 31:44 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis31:44&version=NKJV

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=h5707



Except that's not what I said.

I said that math is reliable. People can twist results, or be dishonest in the way they present data. But like I said above, 2 + 2 = 4 (in base 10, just to keep things simple) ALWAYS. No philosophy, beliefs, doctrines, no one can change the FACT that 2 + 2 = 4. Someone can manipulate data so that it's biased one direction or another, but whether it reflects reality is another matter entirely. Yet Mathematics hasn't become less reliable.



I didn't say "put your faith in math and science." I said that we can trust that mathematics and science (when done appropriately) are reliable.



Incorrect. Mathematical and physical laws reflect God's nature, because laws cannot be created, only discovered or revealed, and therefore must have always been a part of His nature, because God has no beginning.

If anything, math and science can ONLY be used to prove God's existence, and cannot prove otherwise (and by that I mean that if someone is doing math or science, and they come up with a result that contradicts God or reality, then they've most likely done something wrong, or are interpreting the results in a manner other than the way it should be.



Using that logic, you would rather observe two vehicles, with one family of five in each, crash in an intersection to figure out how many people would be injured or killed, and then base the next batch of vehicles you make on those results. Rinse and repeat.

Predictions go a long way in almost EVERY aspect of life. Heck, I use basic math every day to predict (to some extent) what my day will be like, where I'll be, etc. I drive a truck for a living, and if my company didn't use basic math to speculate/predict, they would NEVER have any loads delivered on time, and no one would get paid.

In other words, what you say is utter stupidity.



If I could go to Mars for vacation in my lifetime, I totally would do it. Go private industries!



Which is the same argument we make to Flat Earthers. If you really want to know, you would put together a "gofundme" page or something and send a highly visible, well known FE'er and send them on such a rocket. Yet they won't, because they know it's nonsense. Observational evidence free for the taking (once they pay to get into orbit), and they want nothing to do with it.

Wait wait wait... YOU are the one saying math proves that the Earth is flat... Right? Or don't you know what you're even trying to say?

As far as the biblical word for "witness", obviously use context clues. If the verse says that a witness uses their mouth, words, and testimony OBVIOUSLY in that context "witness" is referring to a person or eyewitness, the words are interchangeable. If the verse says that our covenant is standing as a witness, OBVIOUSLY it is meaning that the covenant is standing as evidence or proof.

Your rant isn't very clear.

Like I said 4 different times now. Why are you using math to try to prove the earth is flat when you can see for yourself that it isn't?

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[JudgeRightly]

Wait wait wait... YOU are the one saying math proves that the Earth is flat... Right? Or don't you know what you're even trying to say?

Nope.

I'm saying that math proves the earth is an oblate spheroid.

As far as the biblical word for "witness", obviously use context clues. If the verse says that a witness uses their mouth, words, and testimony OBVIOUSLY in that context "witness" is referring to a person or eyewitness, the words are interchangeable.

So again, you're faced with the problem of murderers getting away with murder because no eyewitnesses are available.

If the verse says that our covenant is standing as a witness, OBVIOUSLY it is meaning that the covenant is standing as evidence or proof.

So are you not able to apply that reasoning to passages that say "by the mouth of two or three witnesses"? In other words, Could "witnesses" also mean "objects" in those passages?

Can objects provide evidence that someone committed a crime?

If so, then they are witnesses by which they testify of a crime. By their mouths a matter can be established.

Your rant isn't very clear.

Or perhaps you're not paying close enough attention... Please read carefully.

Like I said 4 different times now. Why are you using math to try to prove the earth is flat when you can see for yourself that it isn't?

I think you've confused me with someone else. My point is this: using only observational evidence to prove something doesn't always work.