The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

[DFT_Dave]

You are confusing multiple galaxies with multiple universes, I think. Or I hope.

If I'm not mistaken, they are two different things.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

I am Christian and I believe in:
The Big Bang (God said, "Let there be light!")
The evolution of the Universe. And all that is in it. Including life. All according to God's plan.
Multiple Galaxies. We have pictures of them.
I do not believe that scripture is or was ever intended to be a science text book.

Science and Faith are not mutually exclusive propositions. They are opposite sides of the same coin.

Thanks for that impute.

I take it that you do not take Genesis literally then, or do you think some of it is but not all of it?

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Yes, one thought. We are by nature short-sighted, meaning we think about what's happening to us right now as the most important thing going on. Thus we naturally think we are the center of the universe. As far as I can tell, nothing in God's word requires such a thought--when God made the sun and moon, "the stars also", He didn't tell us how far away they were or whether they are located in concentric circles around us--just that He made them. He placed them in the expanse of heaven. It might be possible to read into that account (provided below) some of our own prejudices, but we should strive not to, as that is adding to scripture. And I believe He wants us to explore His creation to the fullest extent of our observational powers that He gave us.

[Gen 1:14-18 NASB] 14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so. 16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good.​

I appreciate your concerns here! But as Christians we should NEVER be afraid of the truth. I'm not saying that hose things you've listed ARE truth, but observation of the heavens, if we really observe them faithfully and seeking the truth, God WILL be glorified in it.

[Psa 19:1-2] 1 ...The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands. 2 Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.

To me, the larger the universe is, the greater God seems, as He made it all, and it is wonderful indeed.

To me, the current scientific theories are attempts to understand things that we currently don't comprehend, but God made it all, made it well, and made it without trial and error.

I don't believe the current scientific theories can hold a candle to the word of God in truth value, but that doesn't mean there's no truth in them. Certainly we don't want to set aside our observations, as we set aside different theories over the years/centuries. If we can't tell what is going on from our observations (even if we don't understand how it works fully), then God gave us powers of observation for no good reason.

Let's talk about your 3 topics:
1. The Big Bang: It astounds me that so many Christians don't like the Big Bang model, as it maintains that the universe had a beginning, that major stuff happened really quickly (within the first few minutes), and that one of the early products was photons--light. All of those things fit nicely with the creation narrative in Gen 1. That doesn't mean that everything about the Big Bang model is correct, but it's sure better than the previous theories, such as an eternal universe.

2. The evolution of the universe: The Bible describes an evolution of the universe. It was not an unguided, random process, but it did evolve from nothing to something over the course of some amount of time.

3. Multi galaxies: I don't understand your concern with this. Why is this a problem for Christians? Others have suggested you meant "multi-universes". I'm not sure why you have a problem with that, either, although some applications of such thoughts are not in line with Christian thought.

In my mind, real observations should lead to real theories about how things work, which can then be tested. We are hampered when we apply our preconceived notions to the task, unless we really allow the bible to guide us in those preconceived notions. That's not always easy, as the side topic of Joshua's long day illustrated.

Scientists, bless their hearts, are seeking truth, but they often do so by making the greatest source of truth taboo. That hampers science. The theory of biological evolution is a case in point. Scientists are awaking from a 150-year biological nap as they see the grandeur of the microscopic side of creation. There are signs that astronomical science is also awakening to the design in the heavens that declare God's works.

Christians have the opportunity to rejoice in the observations of science, even if we don't agree with the interpretations of science. But if we bury our heads in the sand, which I believe the flat earth and fake moon shot conspiracy theories make us do, we bring disgrace on our God and blaspheme His name. Let's not do that.

Christians, of all people, being freed by the truth, should NEVER be afraid of truth.

Thank you for all that impute.

It seems many Christians are trying to combine Genesis creation with evolution. I don't think that works but I don't want to debate what you have posted, I just wanted to know what many of you believed.

--Dave

 

[CabinetMaker]

Thanks for that impute.

I take it that you do not take Genesis literally then, or do you think some of it is but not all of it?

--Dave

I do not think that the creation account is a literal account of creation. I do not believe that it is an exhaustive account of the earliest human history.

 

[DFT_Dave]

I do like videos well done, like this one, it's short and to the point.

But you are using NASA computer graphics of the earth from space in order to argue that they do not use computer graphics of the earth from space.

--Dave

 

[fool]

So Dave:
Are there any videos of the government denying people access to Antarctica?
Are there any activist groups raising an expedition?

 

[DFT_Dave]

From Answers in Genesis:

"Is the Earth Flat" -- https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/is-the-earth-flat/
"A Flat-Earth Prediction Falls Flat" -- https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/flat-earth-prediction-falls-flat/
"Does the Bible Teach that the Earth is Flat?" -- https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/does-bible-teach-earth-flat/

Dave is possessed by flat-earth demons, whose mouths must be stopped (Titus 1:11).

This is a debate site not an inquisition.

But thanks for the links, I will study them.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

So Dave:
Are there any videos of the government denying people access to Antarctica?
Are there any activist groups raising an expedition?

Yes

--Dave

 

[chair]

If I'm not mistaken, they are two different things.

--Dave

They are. You said "multiple galaxies"- is that what you meant?

 

[DFT_Dave]

They are. You said "multiple galaxies"- is that what you meant?

Yes, that we are one of many other galaxies in a singular universe is different than many universes with their own many galaxies.

I would consider many universes to be as unverifiable, and unbiblical, as many galaxies in one universe.

--Dave

 

[chair]

Yes, that we are one of many other galaxies in a singular universe is different than many universes with their own many galaxies.

I would consider many universes to be as unverifiable, and unbiblical, as many galaxies in one universe.

--Dave

I agree that multiple universes is unverifiable. I disagree on multiple galaxies.

So:
1. Why do you consider multiple galaxies unbiblical?
2. Galaxies can be observed, both by professional and amateur astronomers. In what way are they "unverifiable"?

 

[Caino]

I agree that multiple universes is unverifiable. I disagree on multiple galaxies.

So:
1. Why do you consider multiple galaxies unbiblical?
2. Galaxies can be observed, both by professional and amateur astronomers. In what way are they "unverifiable"?

He means that his vision doesn't extend beyond his human pride. He's fully invested in flat earth to the biter end, it's classic conspiracy theory phycology. I know a couple of 9-11 conspiracy people, it's incredible how self deceiving they are. It becomes a form of faith.

 

[chair]

He means that his vision doesn't extend beyond his human pride. He's fully invested in flat earth to the biter end, it's classic conspiracy theory phycology. I know a couple of 9-11 conspiracy people, it's incredible how self deceiving they are. It becomes a form of faith.

Yes, you are right. He is lying to himself more than anything else. I find it hard to accept how far he has gone with this, but facts are facts, and self-deceiving is the word.

 

[User Name]

 

[fool]

Yes

--Dave

That video is about a guy that got in trouble for going there without a permit, twice.
He went there twice. So there is nobody stopping people from going there.
Do you have anything else?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Obviously this is fake since.... well.... since it can't be true based on flat earth conspiracy theory.

:duh:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

1. Why do you consider multiple galaxies unbiblical?
2. Galaxies can be observed, both by professional and amateur astronomers. In what way are they "unverifiable"?

Flat earth people do not believe that stars are giant balls of burning gas that are light years away therefore they can't believe that other galaxies exist either. Remember... the sun is only 3,000 miles above earth and stars are not what we say they are.

 

[User Name]

Obviously this is fake since.... well.... since it can't be true based on flat earth conspiracy theory.

:duh:

Here's an even better one:

 

[DFT_Dave]

I agree that multiple universes is unverifiable. I disagree on multiple galaxies.

So:
1. Why do you consider multiple galaxies unbiblical?
2. Galaxies can be observed, both by professional and amateur astronomers. In what way are they "unverifiable"?

A light in the sky is hardly proof of a galaxy.

The rendering of these is galaxies are just like the prehistoric ape man, all works of art, a little light and lots of imagination.

--Dave

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

A light in the sky is hardly proof of a galaxy.

--Dave

I mean this with all respect, but if professional astronomers and scientific evidence is inadmissible... what are you looking for to assure you that we are on an elliptical sphere that is compressed by rapid rotation?

When a Nuclear Ballistic Missile is shot from an SSBN, it exits the water and then ignites. It climbs beyond the earths atmosphere and circumnavigates the globe. The speed that it can traverse the earth and then drop a portion of it's friendly payload on the "unsuspecting" target is directly in step with this model of functioning.

The math and other calculations for this are based on a spherical model and the military has done this in testing.

Do we now believe that the very military is inaccurate in their calculations in a way that yielded a successful result, or "hiding" the true "flat earth" calculations?

I'm being sincere and I'm curious to what your response will be.

- EE