The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

[DFT_Dave]

The plane is not flying at am absolute speed of 600mph, but at that speed relative to the air. It is an airplane after all. And the air rotates with the earth, unless you have rejected Newton's First Law of Motion along with the rest of modern physics.

Laws of motion and modern physics is not an answer to this contradiction.

The man in the video said that the bullet does not move with the atmosphere and that the ground moves under it. The target will move away from the path of the speeding bullet if not adjusted for that movement. The Target will move into the path of a speeding bullet if the sights are adjusted properly.

You have told me that a jet does the opposite of a bullet. The jet moves with the atmosphere and the ground does not move under it. Planes do not have to adjust for a moving earth because they move with it. This is an obvious contradiction. You can't have it both ways. You can't have a bullet act one way and a jet act the opposite way.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Can you put the reason you believe that SR is fatalistic into your own words? Summarise it for me, if you think I got it wrong.

(I must have missed you recalling your 'brain dead' comments about posters who disagreed with you. :wave: )

You misquoted me, I have to correct you again. I did not say brain dead people are those who disagree with me. I forgive you.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

You haven't taken the precaution of actually understanding the theories you are trying to critique. You are woefully ignorant of even the most basic physics principles (Newton's laws of motion, for example) so you are unable to discuss anything at a level more than just pontificating and posting third party quotes.

This would be much more fun if you tried to understand the arguments of all those who are trying to help in this regard, and your arguments would be aimed much better of got knew what you were aiming at.

And just what do you know about the earth is flat and we never went to the moon? Have you studied these beliefs? If you have not studied these arguments, and clearly you don't understand them, then I recommend that you take your own advise. Your hypocrisy is evidence of being "brain dead".

--Dave

 

[JudgeRightly]

Laws of motion and modern physics is not an answer to this contradiction.

The man in the video said that the bullet does not move with the atmosphere and that the ground moves under it. The target will move away from the path of the speeding bullet if not adjusted for that movement. The Target will move into the path of a speeding bullet if the sights are adjusted properly.

You have told me that a jet does the opposite of a bullet. The jet moves with the atmosphere and the ground does not move under it. Planes do not have to adjust for a moving earth because they move with it. This is an obvious contradiction. You can't have it both ways. You can't have a bullet act one way and a jet act the opposite way.

--Dave

Dave, does a bullet fly through the air under it's own power?

The difference between a jet and a bullet is that a jet is applying constant thrust to keep it moving forward. A bullet only has inertia to keep it moving, and gravity to pull it towards the ground. https://youtu.be/D9wQVIEdKh8

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[gcthomas]

And just what do you know about the earth is flat and we never went to the moon? Have you studied these beliefs? If you have not studied these arguments, and clearly you don't understand them, then I recommend that you take your own advise. Your hypocrisy is evidence of being "brain dead".

--Dave

Shame on you for name calling simply for disagreeing with you. I would like to have a proper discussion, but you won't answer any questions or respond to any criticism except by flat rejection. What sort of discussion is this?

You really have bought into all this 'conspiracy theory without a benefit for the conspirators' — you are not playing devil's advocate at all, are you?

 

[Clete]

I'll answer each of your points one at a time not all at once.

A marksman says that the flight of a bullet does not "rotate with the earth" so a correction must be made in order to hit a target a distance away as the earth is moving under the bullet as it moves through the atmosphere. He calls this the Coriolis effect. You don't have to see the video to get this but others viewing may want to.

[video]https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-omr-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=omr&p=coriolis+effect+on+bullets#id=2&vid=9998a4a973ccb81482d0b902aeae9eb1&action=click[/video]

Does a pilot adjust a plane as it flies thorough the atmosphere as the earth moves under it like the bullet has too?

--Dave

The marksman is wrong. That is NOT the Coriolis effect - period. He is flatly wrong. My bet is that there isn't any marksman anywhere that has ever said that. I totally believe that such an argument was put forward on those videos but that doesn't mean that any real marksman said such a thing. It's just completely rediculous on its face. The marksman himself along with his gun and the bullets in it are all traveling along with the planet that they are sitting on when the gun is fired. The momentum is conserved when the bullet if fired. In other words, the path of the bullet is primarily relative to the "stationary" gun. That is to say that the gun is only stationary relative to the path of the bullet, not the whole universe or even to the spin axis of the planet, thus no correction is necessary because the momentum around the earth's axis is conserved after the bullet leaves the barrel.

Now, the spin of the earth does turn the Earth into one gigantic spinning compass and thus Coriolis effect is present any time anything travels in any direction that is not parallel to the spin of the earth. It is possible that on extremely long shots, like those made by the big guns on ships or other artillery could need to correct for the Coriolis effect when extreme precision is needed but its not because the Earth is moving the target underneath the trajectory of the projectile its because of the preservation of angular momentum. If you want to feel this Coriolis effect, go buy a cheap compass and spin it up and then move it around with your hand. The weird resistance you'll feel is the Coriolis effect.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[DFT_Dave]

Dave, does a bullet fly through the air under it's own power?

The difference between a jet and a bullet is that a jet is applying constant thrust to keep it moving forward. A bullet only has inertia to keep it moving, and gravity to pull it towards the ground. https://youtu.be/D9wQVIEdKh8

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Not an answer to the question


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[JudgeRightly]

Not an answer to the question


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Answer my question, because the answer will give a basis for the answer to your question. Let's learn to walk before we run.

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[1Mind1Spirit]

Because both NY and LA are also moving the same quote-unquote 1,000 mph. LA is constantly chasing NY.

Even if you're standing in LA facing west? Or NY facing east?

It drops due to gravitation, it's measurable in mil-dot sights/moa. Predictable. The bullet released from your hand, at the same height as the bullet shot horizontally out of a gun, are going to drop the same amount, in the same amount of time, it doesn't matter at all that one of them is flying 1,000-2,000 mph from side-to-side.

I'll agree side to side movement makes no difference.

Nice try, though.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Shame on you for name calling simply for disagreeing with you. I would like to have a proper discussion, but you won't answer any questions or respond to any criticism except by flat rejection. What sort of discussion is this?

You really have bought into all this 'conspiracy theory without a benefit for the conspirators' — you are not playing devil's advocate at all, are you?

You still haven't got past the Michelson-Morley results.

Quantum physics doesn't cut the mustard.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

The marksman is wrong. That is NOT the Coriolis effect - period. He is flatly wrong. My bet is that there isn't any marksman anywhere that has ever said that. I totally believe that such an argument was put forward on those videos but that doesn't mean that any real marksman said such a thing. It's just completely rediculous on its face. The marksman himself along with his gun and the bullets in it are all traveling along with the planet that they are sitting on when the gun is fired. The momentum is conserved when the bullet if fired. In other words, the path of the bullet is primarily relative to the "stationary" gun. That is to say that the gun is only stationary relative to the path of the bullet, not the whole universe or even to the spin axis of the planet, thus no correction is necessary because the momentum around the earth's axis is conserved after the bullet leaves the barrel.

Now, the spin of the earth does turn the Earth into one gigantic spinning compass and thus Coriolis effect is present any time anything travels in any direction that is not parallel to the spin of the earth. It is possible that on extremely long shots, like those made by the big guns on ships or other artillery could need to correct for the Coriolis effect when extreme precision is needed but its not because the Earth is moving the target underneath the trajectory of the projectile its because of the preservation of angular momentum. If you want to feel this Coriolis effect, go buy a cheap compass and spin it up and then move it around with your hand. The weird resistance you'll feel is the Coriolis effect.

Resting in Him,
Clete

If it's a conspiracy, what's the payoff?

 

[chair]

Quantum physics doesn't cut the mustard.

Quantum Physics works. There is no getting around it- even if it "doesn't make sense".

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Quantum Physics works. There is no getting around it- even if it "doesn't make sense".

Works what?

 

[chair]

Works what?

It works. It predicts how things will behave. It is a solid scientific theory.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

It works. It predicts how things will behave. It is a solid scientific theory.

If that's the case, which it's not, it would prove the aether.

 

[chair]

If that's the case, which it's not, it would prove the aether.

One step at a time: Why do you think the theory doesn't work? What's the problem with it?

 

[Nihilo]

If that's the case, which it's not, it would prove the aether.

Bell's Theorem is tough to explain if QM isn't accurate.

 

[Sitamun]

Here I was enjoying my time away from ToL then this thread pops up on my facebook feed. Dave, you still haven't answered the big question, who would profit from such a lie? I need a real answer, just saying Satan just makes you sound like the church lady to me, and I can't take that answer seriously. What you are talking about is a global conspiracy that has lasted generations, if not centuries. How in the world you believe THAT is plausible brings your judgement into question, especially when you can't even pinpoint who would benefit from such a thing. The science bits can wait until that is answered.

 

[Nihilo]

Here I was enjoying my time away from ToL then this thread pops up on my facebook feed. Dave, you still haven't answered the big question, who would profit from such a lie? I need a real answer, just saying Satan just makes you sound like the church lady to me, and I can't take that answer seriously. What you are talking about is a global conspiracy that has lasted generations, if not centuries. How in the world you believe THAT is plausible brings your judgement into question, especially when you can't even pinpoint who would benefit from such a thing. The science bits can wait until that is answered.

Unconscious coordinated conspiracy is logically possible, which makes it physically possible, and to my knowledge, such a possibility has never been shown to be impossible, so it stands as a possible explanation for why something might seem like a multi-non-overlapping-generational conspiracy with no evidence of planning, deliberation or premeditation on the part of any of its co-conspirators. At least, as far as I can tell.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

You really have bought into all this 'conspiracy theory without a benefit for the conspirators' — you are not playing devil's advocate at all, are you?

Yeah I don't think Dave is playing Devil's advocate at all. When you play Devil's advocate you are still capable of understanding (or at very least acknowledging) the position that you would normally hold. Devils' advocates tend to say things like... "That's true" and "that is a serious objection to this theory" etc.

Dave has skipped past the Devil's advocate and become a full-fledged legal Counsel.