The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

[JudgeRightly]

That's your opinion, not a fact.

The fact is there is contradiction in the globe earth model, making it a theory of relativity based on thought experiment--imagination.

No, Dave, it's a well established fact that the Earth is round. See all the evidence posted so far.

The globe is not moving from view on earth but is moving from view in outer space. Unfortunately NASA controls what they see from space which contradicts what we see from low earth flights.

Does NASA control what SpaceX sees or does?

If you think there is irrefutable empirical evidence of a moving globe that we can verify with out relying on NASA then present it.

--Dave

SpaceX. Other governmental space agencies other than NASA. "With two or three witnesses a matter shall be established." You're rejecting all the witnesses because of your dislike for NASA, the Government, and your love for conspiracies that are irrefutable.



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[JudgeRightly]

128 pages of discussing whether the earth is flat or spherical in 2017. That is really unbelievable. Granted, all the threads claiming that the earth is 6000-10000 years old and that the theory of evolution is false is not much better.

If your religion requires you to dismiss empirical facts, then it is not spirituality, it is crossing over into psychosis. This thread is the evidence that religion cannot be separated from reason and critical thinking.

I could show you empirical evidence that shows that the earth's age falls within that range, or at the very least that the evidence that says that the universe is billions of years old doesn't actually support that claim, but we can start a different thread for that.

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[DFT_Dave]

128 pages of discussing whether the earth is flat or spherical in 2017. That is really unbelievable. Granted, all the threads claiming that the earth is 6000-10000 years old and that the theory of evolution is false is not much better.

If your religion requires you to dismiss empirical facts, then it is not spirituality, it is crossing over into psychosis. This thread is the evidence that religion cannot be separated from reason and critical thinking.

Your comment demonstrates that you have not read the other posts on this thread. The empirical fact, visual evidence, is the earth, from earth, is not a spinning globe, it's a stationary plain.

And you have never seen any species evolve ever in the history of man, including man. As an atheist your entire world view is relative and imagined, accept you think it absolutely true--which is absurdly contradictory.

--Dave

 

[Selaphiel]

Your comment demonstrates that you have not read the other posts on this thread. The empirical fact, visual evidence, is the earth, from earth, is not a spinning globe, it's a stationary plain.

I do not read the diaries of the delusional in an asylum as evidence for their delusional claims either.

And you have never seen any species evolve ever in the history of man, including man. As an atheist your entire world view is relative and imagined, accept you think it absolutely true--which is absurdly contradictory.

I'm an atheist? Then my occupation is quite weird.

Of course, whether I am a theist or atheist is absolutely irrelevant when evaluating the validity of a scientific theory. Actually, we can see species evolve. There are for example lizard experiements that show physiologically visible adaptation to new environments in less than 40 years. There are experiements with bacteria that show evolving and diviersifying populations that adapts to the environment when nutrition is limited. Just because you tinfoil hat people take your objections seriously, does not mean anyone else does.

 

[patrick jane]

The moon was made for "light", Genesis. It does not have water or an atmosphere, we don't even know what it's really made of. The horizon/horizontal line on earth is always straight in all directions at every elevation from low to high altitude on land and sea, not curved. The oceans are always level/flat in every direction as far as we can see when viewed at low and high elevation, not curved. The earth, from earth and sky, is absolutely stationary/not moving, while sun, moon, and stars are "seen" to move across the sky.

The only "visual" and proclaimed moving globe earth comes from NASA, in contradiction to what we see and experience from earth.

Three so called moon landing astronauts, as seen on the video, are clearly not telling the truth. Their nervousness, slow speech, and sadness, etc. all add up to being forced to tell a lie.

--Dave

Dave, you're a piece of work :chuckle:

 

[JudgeRightly]

Your comment demonstrates that you have not read the other posts on this thread.

My first post on this thread is #288. You can find my "thanks" on many posts prior to it. To say that I have not read the other posts on this thread is untrue. What, have you been watching me with your own two eyes to see if I have been reading the posts in this thread?

The fact that I've responded to many posts on here with logical, well thought out arguments evidences otherwise.

The empirical fact, visual evidence, is the earth, from earth, is not a spinning globe, it's a stationary plain.

No Dave, Perhaps you're the one who hasn't read anything on this post (which makes what you said above "projection"). We have shown you time and time again how the earth is round, and you dodge and evade and ignore the evidence. I've seen it with my own two eyes.

And you have never seen any species evolve ever in the history of man, including man. As an atheist your entire world view is relative and imagined, accept you think it absolutely true--which is absurdly contradictory.

Nice straw man. See, you're falsley equivocating "globe earther" with atheist/evolutionist. The problem is that you can't logically make that argument, because even the Flat Earth Society's leader is an atheist and evolutionist, or is he wrong in his beliefs too ?

You see, I'm a Christian, and I believe God created the round earth in 6 literal days, that he hung the earth in orbit around the Sun along with the other planets, that our moon orbits the Earth just like the other moons in our solar system orbit their planets, and that the Sun orbits the center of our galaxy, which is at the center of the universe.

So try again. This time make an actual argument.

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[DFT_Dave]

Dave, you're a piece of work :chuckle:

Go to facebook for personal and social commentary, this site is for intelligent debate of opposing views.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

My first post on this thread is #288. You can find my "thanks" on many posts prior to it. To say that I have not read the other posts on this thread is untrue. What, have you been watching me with your own two eyes to see if I have been reading the posts in this thread?

The fact that I've responded to many posts on here with logical, well thought out arguments evidences otherwise.



No Dave, Perhaps you're the one who hasn't read anything on this post (which makes what you said above "projection"). We have shown you time and time again how the earth is round, and you dodge and evade and ignore the evidence. I've seen it with my own two eyes.



Nice straw man. See, you're falsley equivocating "globe earther" with atheist/evolutionist. The problem is that you can't logically make that argument, because even the Flat Earth Society's leader is an atheist and evolutionist, or is he wrong in his beliefs too ?

You see, I'm a Christian, and I believe God created the round earth in 6 literal days, that he hung the earth in orbit around the Sun along with the other planets, that our moon orbits the Earth just like the other moons in our solar system orbit their planets, and that the Sun orbits the center of our galaxy, which is at the center of the universe.

So try again. This time make an actual argument.

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My comment, "Your comment demonstrates that you have not read the other posts on this thread" was not addressed to you.

--Dave

 

[JudgeRightly]

My comment, "Your comment demonstrates that you have not read the other posts on this thread" was not addressed to you.

--Dave

The points I made in response to your post remain. Stop making straw man arguments and preset to us solid facts that go against our evidence.

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[DFT_Dave]

I do not read the diaries of the delusional in an asylum as evidence for their delusional claims either.

I'm an atheist? Then my occupation is quite weird.

Of course, whether I am a theist or atheist is absolutely irrelevant when evaluating the validity of a scientific theory. Actually, we can see species evolve. There are for example lizard experiements that show physiologically visible adaptation to new environments in less than 40 years. There are experiements with bacteria that show evolving and diviersifying populations that adapts to the environment when nutrition is limited. Just because you tinfoil hat people take your objections seriously, does not mean anyone else does.

Lizards are still lizards, bacteria is still bacteria, man is still, and always has been, man. Diversification is not evolution. An atheist is one who believes everything has evolved.

--Dave

 

[Clete]

The Devil

As I said before, repeatedly, Satan has a motive. He will deceive the whole world.

Not even Satan deceives people for no reason, Dave.

Further, Satan is not a magician. He cannot maintain such a colossal, omni-national, multigeneration conspiracy.

He has constructed a fake theology of an impersonal; timeless, immovable, changeless God, who is "in everything".

How do you know this?

He has created a fake science of the evolution of "everything".

You think Satan is the one who came up with the theory of evolution?

Or are you just giving Satan generalized credit for everything false and evil?

He has put this in a fake cosmos of other worlds and planets in order for the fallen angels he commands to come and take over this world as Aliens from outer space that we will be conditioned to accept as higher evolved beings that will help us make this earth a better place--utopia.

--Dave

David, this is literally crazy talk. You need to seriously get back to thinking biblically. Do not hold to any doctrine that the bible does not affirmatively support. There is zero chance that any such deception could be accomplished and this thread has proven (I (and others) really have proven it, Dave) that this flat Earth crap is silly nonsense. The world very simply would not look the way it does if the world was flat. If there's any deception going on, it's with you and other flat-earthers. And isn't it more plausible that some relatively small number of otherwise well-meaning people have allowed faulty arguments (and outright lies) to cloud their judgment and lead them to a false conclusion? That would be an easy deception for even regular human beings to pull off, never mind the Father of Lies
There's an old book that was first published in 1841 that you should read. It's called Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds by Charles Mackay. The Kindle version is practically free. It's a history book all about different episodes in history where whole masses of people went a little kookoo and, of course, how the madness came crashing down. I was turned onto that book by Bob Enyart, who, if I remember the story correctly, was told to read it by an atheist who thought that Christianity was one of world extraordinary popular delusions. The problem for the atheist was that the author was a Christian and Bob actually read the book, which, rather than being an argument against Christianity, proved to be the opposite (not overtly but by implication). The kind of lies we are discussing here cannot persist. Such lies fall apart under their own weight. They are defeated by the very nature of reality itself and their opposition to it.
There was a time when the flat Earth model was conventional wisdom and it was not usurped by contrivance and conspiracy or a meaningless deception· of the devil but by the nature of reality itself. We know that the Earth is not flat in much the same way that we know how to make plastic, which almost no one knows how to make themselves or that many decreases are caused by germs that most people have never seen and have no direct evidence for. There is no more evidence that the Globe Earth Model is a deception than there is that medical science is a lie. There is, in fact, a mountain of evidence to the contrary and the conventional wisdom that was the flat Earth model as well as the theory of the 'Four Humours' were both usurped by a careful investigation into the nature of the reality around us.

Clete

 

[DFT_Dave]

The points I made in response to your post remain. Stop making straw man arguments and preset to us solid facts that go against our evidence.

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Stop texting while driving.

--Dave

 

[JudgeRightly]

Lizards are still lizards, bacteria is still bacteria, man is still, and always has been, man. Diversification is not evolution. An atheist is one who believes everything has evolved.

--Dave

That's probably the only sensible thing you've said on this thread. For once, we agree.

Don't let it go to your head.

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[DFT_Dave]

That's probably the only sensible thing you've said on this thread. For once, we agree.

Don't let it go to your head.

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Do you text and drive?

--Dave

 

[JudgeRightly]

Stop texting while driving.

--Dave

Stay on topic, please.

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[DFT_Dave]

Not even Satan deceives people for no reason, Dave.

Further, Satan is not a magician. He cannot maintain such a colossal, omni-national, multigeneration conspiracy.

How do you know this?

You think Satan is the one who came up with the theory of evolution?

Or are you just giving Satan generalized credit for everything false and evil?

David, this is literally crazy talk. You need to seriously get back to thinking biblically. Do not hold to any doctrine that the bible does not affirmatively support. There is zero chance that any such deception could be accomplished and this thread has proven (I (and others) really have proven it, Dave) that this flat Earth crap is silly nonsense. The world very simply would not look the way it does if the world was flat. If there's any deception going on, it's with you and other flat-earthers. And isn't it more plausible that some relatively small number of otherwise well-meaning people have allowed faulty arguments (and outright lies) to cloud their judgment and lead them to a false conclusion? That would be an easy deception for even regular human beings to pull off, never mind the Father of Lies
There's an old book that was first published in 1841 that you should read. It's called Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds by Charles Mackay. The Kindle version is practically free. It's a history book all about different episodes in history where whole masses of people went a little kookoo and, of course, how the madness came crashing down. I was turned onto that book by Bob Enyart, who, if I remember the story correctly, was told to read it by an atheist who thought that Christianity was one of world extraordinary popular delusions. The problem for the atheist was that the author was a Christian and Bob actually read the book, which, rather than being an argument against Christianity, proved to be the opposite (not overtly but by implication). The kind of lies we are discussing here cannot persist. Such lies fall apart under their own weight. They are defeated by the very nature of reality itself and their opposition to it.
There was a time when the flat Earth model was conventional wisdom and it was not usurped by contrivance and conspiracy or a meaningless deception· of the devil but by the nature of reality itself. We know that the Earth is not flat in much the same way that we know how to make plastic, which almost no one knows how to make themselves or that many decreases are caused by germs that most people have never seen and have no direct evidence for. There is no more evidence that the Globe Earth Model is a deception than there is that medical science is a lie. There is, in fact, a mountain of evidence to the contrary and the conventional wisdom that was the flat Earth model as well as the theory of the 'Four Humours' were both usurped by a careful investigation into the nature of the reality around us.

Clete

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Satan does not deceive us against our will. There is a willingness in accepting what is false, we allow ourselves to be deceived. Satan's reason for his deception is to take over and control this world with his own world view as opposed to the view that God gives us.

I have only seen so far, thought experiment, contradictory and relativity arguments made for a spinning globed earth.

Nothing has yet been presented here, or in the history of cosmology that I have been studying, that is as persuasive as the visual empirical evidence from earth and low earth flight that we live on a stationary flat earth with sun, moon, and stars moving over it.

What does the Bible say about cosmology and Satan's influence on fallen and sinful humanity? Did Satan originate the idea of evolution, a timeless God, and a globed earth in order to deceive man or did man come up with these ideas all on his own? Perhaps a combination of both, and not so much an either this or that answer.

I did not want this thread to become a Bible study, but rather a debate about cosmology and the moon landing, but it's hard to avoid the Bible since it does include cosmology.

Mark 13:24 after the tribulation of those days, ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’ 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.…

Revelation 6:13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Stay on topic, please.

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Two things I'm right about.

--Dave

 

[JudgeRightly]

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Satan does not deceive us against our will. There is a willingness in accepting what is false, we allow ourselves to be deceived. Satan's reason for his deception is to take over and control this world with his own world view as opposed to the view that God gives us.

I have only seen so far, thought experiment, contradictory and relativity arguments made for a spinning globed earth.

Nothing has yet been presented here, or in the history of cosmology that I have been studying, that is as persuasive as the visual empirical evidence from earth and low earth flight that we live on a stationary flat earth with sun, moon, and stars moving over it.

What does the Bible say about cosmology and Satan's influence on fallen and sinful humanity? Did Satan originate the idea of evolution, a timeless God, and a globed earth in order to deceive man or did man come up with these ideas all on his own? Perhaps a combination of both, and not so much an either this or that answer.

I did not want this thread to become a Bible study, but rather a debate about cosmology and the moon landing, but it's hard to avoid the Bible since it does include cosmology.

Mark 13:24 after the tribulation of those days, ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’ 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.…

Revelation 6:13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind.

--Dave

Did you even bother to read my post here?
||
||
V

No, Dave, it's a well established fact that the Earth is round. See all the evidence posted so far.



Does NASA control what SpaceX sees or does?



SpaceX. Other governmental space agencies other than NASA. "With two or three witnesses a matter shall be established." You're rejecting all the witnesses because of your dislike for NASA, the Government, and your love for conspiracies that are irrefutable.



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[Selaphiel]

Lizards are still lizards, bacteria is still bacteria, man is still, and always has been, man. Diversification is not evolution.

Can you scientifically demonstrate this essence of lizardness or E.Coli'ness? If fairly drastic physiological changes can evolve in less than 40 years, what stops it from evolving and diversifying further and diversifying into new species? Can you scientifically demonstrate this limit to possible changes? Of course you can't, because there is no such thing. Speciation is an accumulation of enough changes. Your argument is analogous to an extremely short lived entity who admits that the second hand on a watch moves, but not the hour hand.

An atheist is one who believes everything has evolved

No, an atheist is someone who does not affirm the existence of God. Someone who believes all lifeforms have evolved is a scientifically literate person.

Your problem is not that you are a theist, it is that you are delusional or incapable of acknowledging even the most basic scientific facts. Your sources are lunatic conspiracy theorists on youtube, it has nothing to do with science. Your flat earth view is no more of a scientific credible alternative than sorcery is to medicine.

 

[Clete]

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Except that he doesn't actually decieve the whole world. It's a figure of speach. Hyperbole. Just as "all of Israel" wasn't baptized by Jesus, Satan hasn't and never will "decieve the whole world".

Satan does not deceive us against our will.

This makes no sense. Being willingly ignorant is one thing, being decieved is quite another.

One or the other of us is wrong about the nature of the Earth. Are you suggesting that whichever that is, willingly became deceived? How would that even work?

There is a willingness in accepting what is false, we allow ourselves to be deceived. Satan's reason for his deception is to take over and control this world with his own world view as opposed to the view that God gives us.

You've said this before. How does it affect Satan's ability to take over control of this world if the Earth is flat but we all think its a sphere? It makes no sense and even if it did, he simply could not pull it off.

I have only seen so far, thought experiment, contradictory and relativity arguments made for a spinning globed earth.

You'd better read this thread again! If it were anyone else saying this, I'd be angry.

Read it again.

Nothing has yet been presented here, or in the history of cosmology that I have been studying, that is as persuasive as the visual empirical evidence from earth and low earth flight that we live on a stationary flat earth with sun, moon, and stars moving over it.

:madmad:

Here's one...

The Corriolis effect is proof that the Earth is NOT stationary.

Here's another...

The FACT that the Moon appears the same to all obervers on the entire Earth, regardless of latitude or elevation is proof that it is both a sphere and very far away and that it orbits the Earth once a month not once a day. It doesn't flaten out like a disk would nor does it shrink into the distance like it would if it were very close. This is all also true of the sun.

There are several more. Just find the video or two that I posted and watch them again. They are irrefutable. As evidenced by the fact that the only attempt you've made to refute them was to repeate your position.

What does the Bible say about cosmology and Satan's influence on fallen and sinful humanity? Did Satan originate the idea of evolution, a timeless God, and a globed earth in order to deceive man or did man come up with these ideas all on his own? Perhaps a combination of both, and not so much an either this or that answer.

There is no evidence that Satan even knows what the theory of evolution even is, never mind that he came up with it. That's not to say that he is ignorant of it or even that he didn't inspire it but merely that to build a worldview around the notion is to build it on nothing that you have any evidence for.

I did not want this thread to become a Bible study, but rather a debate about cosmology and the moon landing, but it's hard to avoid the Bible since it does include cosmology.

Mark 13:24 after the tribulation of those days, ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’ 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.…

Revelation 6:13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind.

--Dave

All miraculous events spoken of in figurative language to be sure. Have you ever noticed that when the bible is speaking of stars that it often bounces back and forth between discussing stars and angels and that it is often difficult to tell which is being discussed? Verse 25 is an excellent example, equating stars with the powers of heaven. Do a word study and look for references to the hosts of heaven, angels and stars. You'll be amazed at the correlation.

None of which has anything to do with whether even Satan himself could pull off a conspiracy the likes of which you are suggesting. Even if the whole world gets decieved about some things by Satan, there's no way he could pull this one off because it relies on thousands of human beings all of whom are not decieved at all but are in on the secret and whom derive no benefit at all from keeping it.

Think about, Dave. All the pilots in the world. All the leadership of every airline company. The thousands of people who work for Nasa, the Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps, all of those people's counterparts in every developed nation (both friend and foe), etc, etc, etc. Hundreds of thousands of people many of whom claim to be and in fact are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ have to not only be in on Satan's deception but must be actively participating in it. And that's just the people alive today! The number must reach into the millions when stretched across the millenia that this deception has been continuing.

Isn't it so much easier to accept the notion that it is you who have been decieved? Seriously - isn't it?

Clete