The Eternal Purpose of creation !

beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared [in Christ not in Adam] unto glory,

It wasn't never in Gods Eternal Purpose and Wisdom to make known the "riches of His Glory" in Adam, but in the Redemption from sin through Christ!
 
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Idolater

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
beloved57 said:
Eph 3:7-11

7Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Col 1:14-16

14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

The creation of the world was Soterilogical and Redemptive for all intents and purposes..

Gen 1:1

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

This is where God begins to manifest a Divine Eternal Purpose, which He eons afore time, purposed in Himself, the Triune God..

This Eternal Purpose was predicated upon God manifesting His redemptive [from sin] wisdom of His Chosen People, the Vessels of Mercy Rom 9:23..

Hence from all eternity God, That the world He created through Jesus Christ Eph 3:9 would be for the display of His manifold wisdom and grace in the redemption of Chosen lost sinners. Eph 3:10

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

For the execution and accomplishment of this Eternal Purpose, God has sovereignly controlled the world from its beginning, and will continue until its consummation, and time will be no more.

All that happens in this world, mysteriously has Soteriological and or Redemptive meaning, that which is both good and evil is included. All has been ordained by God and serves to operate into the displaying the manifold Wisdom of God in the Salvation or Redemption of the Church and His Glorification Through Jesus Christ !
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The Elect is the Body of Christ, the whole entire Church, wherever we are, we're the one Church, and when the Scripture speaks of 'the Elect,' that's just the same as if the Scripture said 'the Church' or the 'Body of Christ.' So I tend to agree with a lot of things you write about the Elect, or that concerns the Elect, since I know exactly what you mean by it.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Idolater said:
The Elect is the Body of Christ, the whole entire Church, wherever we are, we're the one Church, and when the Scripture speaks of 'the Elect,' that's just the same as if the Scripture said 'the Church' or the 'Body of Christ.' So I tend to agree with a lot of things you write about the Elect, or that concerns the Elect, since I know exactly what you mean by it.
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Gotcha. But now did you understand the post ?
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared [in Christ not in Adam] unto glory,

It wasn't never in Gods Eternal Purpose and Wisdom to make known the "riches of His Glory" in Adam, but in the Redemption from sin through Christ!
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Amen Brother. It wasn't God's Will for Adam to be perfectly obedient to His command Gen. 2:17, for in God's Eternal Purpose Eph. 3:11 of Mercy for His Elect Eph. 1:4-7 Adam must sin / transgress God's Law as Christ, in the Mind and Purpose of God's Mercy for His Seed, was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world Rev. 13:8 to Save His Chosen People Rom. 9:23 [His Sheep] from their sins Is. 53:5-6.

Col. 1:16-17

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Sin is a dominion Rom. 6:14 created by Jesus Christ, Who is the the Wisdom of God 1 Cor. 1:24.
 
Idolater

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Nanja said:
Amen Brother. It wasn't God's Will for Adam to be perfectly obedient to His command Gen. 2:17, for in God's Eternal Purpose Eph. 3:11 of Mercy for His Elect Eph. 1:4-7 Adam must sin / transgress God's Law as Christ, in the Mind and Purpose of God's Mercy for His Seed, was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world Rev. 13:8 to Save His Chosen People Rom. 9:23 [His Sheep] from their sins Is. 53:5-6.

Col. 1:16-17

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Sin is a dominion Rom. 6:14 created by Jesus Christ, Who is the the Wisdom of God 1 Cor. 1:24.
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Aside from your lapsarian views that aren't uniformly understood even among Reformed thinkers (you appear to be 'supralapsarian,' but others believe in 'infralapsarianism,' but some even reject all thoughts on lapsarianism as speculation), this is all in keeping with Catholicism, when 'Elect,' 'Chosen People,' and 'Sheep' are understood to be the Body of Christ; the whole entire Church (Catholic or Not ! ).
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
Idolater said:
Aside from your lapsarian views that aren't uniformly understood even among Reformed thinkers (you appear to be 'supralapsarian,' but others believe in 'infralapsarianism,' but some even reject all thoughts on lapsarianism as speculation), this is all in keeping with Catholicism, when 'Elect,' 'Chosen People,' and 'Sheep' are understood to be the Body of Christ; the whole entire Church (Catholic or Not ! ).
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All men believe something about the scriptures.

As for God's Elect, He has chosen them from the beginning to Salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and Belief of the Truth 2 Thes. 2:13, and has called them to come out of all false religions of man.

Rev. 18:4

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her [false church], my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

2 Cor. 11:13-15

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
We know that this world was created for a redemptive in Christ since by Him and for Him [Christ] all things were made Col 1:16

16 [FONT=&quot]For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

And was He not in the eternal purpose of God the Lamb slain from the foundation ? Rev 13:8;1 Pet 1:20 ![/FONT]
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
See if Adam would have obeyed Gods directive not to eat of that particular fruit, and would have preserved man in Adam in a state of obedience and innocence, then that would have overcome and brought to nothing Christ having been setup and ordained slain from the foundation of the world.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
When God gave Adam the command not to eat of that particular tree in the garden, was it within the design of already having purposed Christ as the Lamb slain, meaning His death, and the glories which should follow ? Lk 24:26

Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?


Isnt this the same Glory Christ had before the world was Jn 17:5

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Was not this Salvation Glories ? 1 Pet 1:10-11

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.


And was this in view of Christs exaltation to be a prince and a saviour Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
When God gave Adam the command not to eat of that particular tree in the garden, was it within the design of already having purposed Christ as the Lamb slain, meaning His death, and the glories which should follow ? Lk 24:26

[FONT=&]Ought not Christ to have [/FONT]suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?


Isnt this the same Glory Christ had before the world was Jn 17:5

5 [FONT=&]And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Was not this Salvation Glories ? 1 Pet 1:10-11

[/FONT][FONT=&]10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.


And was this in view of Christs exaltation to be a prince and a saviour Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.[/FONT]
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Amen to all 3 parts !

Adam sinning was no accident but was God's Desire Job 23:13, preordained by Him before the foundation; all for the Glory of Christ Jesus Acts 5:31, so that they should be Redeemed by His Blood Rev. 13:8; for His Eternal Glory, and for the Eternal Glory of His Chosen Seed Israel Is. 45:17, His Church Eph. 5:25.

1 Pet. 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

So obviously, God never intended that this Eternal Glory would come through the created man Adam not sinning, but through the God-Glorifying Precious Blood of the Lamb !
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Nanja said:
Amen to all 3 parts !

Adam sinning was no accident but was God's Desire Job 23:13, preordained by Him before the foundation; all for the Glory of Christ Jesus Acts 5:31, so that they should be Redeemed by His Blood Rev. 13:8; for His Eternal Glory, and for the Eternal Glory of His Chosen Seed Israel Is. 45:17, His Church Eph. 5:25.

1 Pet. 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

So obviously, God never intended that this Eternal Glory would come through the created man Adam not sinning, but through the God-Glorifying Precious Blood of the Lamb !
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Amen Sister !
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Now if the sin of man in Adam, if it wasn't predestinated by God, then it was to occur by some power outside of Himself which He had no prior knowledge of until it happened. If u then say God did have knowledge of it beforehand, then it must also be concluded that God determined still that it happen lest He lacked the ability to have stopped it from happening.
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
Now if the sin of man in Adam, if it wasn't predestinated by God, then it was to occur by some power outside of Himself which He had no prior knowledge of until it happened. If u then say God did have knowledge of it beforehand, then it must also be concluded that God determined still that it happen lest He lacked the ability to have stopped it from happening.
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Surely God had knowledge of sin beforehand and determined and so desired that it would happen, for He Created the dominion of sin Col. 1:16; Rom. 6:14; Eph. 3:9 to fulfill His Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph. 1:7 who was foreordained as the Redeeming Lamb Rev. 13:8 to Save the World of His Sheep John 3:16; 1:29; Heb. 13:20 from their sins, according to His Purpose and Grace 2 Tim. 1:9.


Job 23:13-14

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Nanja said:
Surely God had knowledge of sin beforehand and determined and so desired that it would happen, for He Created the dominion of sin Col. 1:16; Rom. 6:14; Eph. 3:9 to fulfill His Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph. 1:7 who was foreordained as the Redeeming Lamb Rev. 13:8 to Save the World of His Sheep John 3:16; 1:29; Heb. 13:20 from their sins, according to His Purpose and Grace 2 Tim. 1:9.


Job 23:13-14

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.
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Amen Sister !
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
The Elect of God, for the Praise of the Glory of Gods Grace, had been appointed to Salvation through Jesus Christ before Adam was created up on the earth 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thess 5:9

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Beforehand or prior to creation the elect were designated vessels of mercy Rom 9:23-24


23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

The words afore prepare are proētoimasen:

To prepare or appoint beforehand, predestine. From pro and hetoimazo; to fit up in advance. See their fall in Adam was part of fitting them up in advance for the eternal glory in Christ 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they[The elect] may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

This Eternal Glory was appointed the elect, which never could have been through Adam, the most glory they could have obtained through Adam would have been earthy, because he was from the earth 1 Cor 15:47

The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. The Glory God had in store for the elect was always heavenly through the Heavenly Man vs 48-49

As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.


Even if Adam had not sinned, he was only flesh and blood, which scripture states 1 Cor 15:50

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
 
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