ECT The historical false teaching about the sins of a believer

heir

TOL Subscriber
How many times do I have to tell you ???
Paul was writing to the "faithful" saints in Ephesus!
But, you have absolutely NO idea what being faithful is!
It is definitely not climbing on the easy-grace train to heaven.
You believe notters (2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV) have NOTHING to tell me, but your perverted news (Galatians 1:8-9 KJV) which is never the good news (Galatians 1:7 KJV)

Jesus preached an obedience-holiness discipleship gospel unto eternal life.
Who was He sent with that message? It certainly wasn't me or you!

Matthew 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

Matthew 15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

...

John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.


And the same for the 12!

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


That completely left us out!

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


The gospel that was preached in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John is not the gospel that is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth today. Ask me how I can know that! I dare you!
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
The historical false teaching about the sins of a believer

A believer has no sin.

Romans 6

11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord....18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
 

Cross Reference

New member
You believe notters (2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV) have NOTHING to tell me, but your perverted news (Galatians 1:8-9 KJV) which is never the good news (Galatians 1:7 KJV)

Who was He sent with that message? It certainly wasn't me or you!

Matthew 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

Matthew 15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

...

John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.


And the same for the 12!

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


That completely left us out!

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


The gospel that was preached in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John is not the gospel that is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth today. Ask me how I can know that! I dare you!

I am puzzled by your disagreement here: What does John 3:16 mean/say to you??? What is it intended, by God, to convey???
 

Cross Reference

New member
A believer has no sin.

Romans 6

11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord....18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Why not qualify it with the tiny preposition: "IF" he continues in faith.
 

revpete

New member
We have a deadly enemy who really hates us … he wants us to be with him in hell.
To overcome him we have: the word of God, the Holy Spirit, and our authority over him.
This is how the NT describes our enemy:
“the ruler of this world” (John 12:31)
“the god of this world” (2 Corinthians 4:4)
“the whole world lies in the power of the evil one” (1 John 5:19)
“there is no truth in him ... he is a liar and the father of it” (John 8:44)
“the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world” (Revelation 12:9)


One of Satan’s masterpieces of deception is this widespread doctrine:
“A new believer in Christ has all of his sins washed away: past, present, and future!”
This thread will prove that this teaching is a very dangerous false doctrine.

“... call His name Jesus (Savior), for He will save His people from their sins.” (Matthew 1:21)
Okay great, but how and when? When one initially receives the Holy Spirit?
Or in some other way? Or at some other time?

Jesus was into heavy-duty warnings about committing sin …
• “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better
for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth
of the sea … If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you.
It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands
or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire.” (Matthew 18:6-8)
• “He who overcomes (sin, etc.) shall inherit all things, and I will be his God
and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers,
sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake
which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:7-8)
• “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.” (John 8:34)


Paul warned the believers in Rome about habitual sinning …
“… that we should no longer be slaves of sin.” (Romans 6:6)
Notice that Paul does NOT say to these believers: We will no longer be slaves of sin!
They needed to choose to not be “(slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death” (Romans 6:16)

“Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin … For sin
shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.” (Romans 6:12-14)

Because of God’s grace, the believer has been given a new nature and the Holy Spirit.
Praise the Lord … the born-again believer NO longer has to be a slave of sin!
“Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.” (John 8:36)
Jesus has made believers “free indeed” … free to NO longer have to sin!
“… you were slaves of sin … And having been set free from sin
… But now having been set free from sin …” (Romans 6:17-22)


Now, here is where Paul goes into his exhortation and encouragement specialty!
The following are supposed to be true, and they are what Paul is truly hoping for:
“you became slaves of righteousness” Romans 6:18)
“having become slaves of God” Romans 6:22)

If this was really true, Paul would not be warning them so much about their sinning!

What was actually the situation is reflected in his instructions …
• “(present) your members as instruments of righteousness to God” Romans 6:13)
• “present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness” Romans 6:19)

Because they could CHOOSE to continue sinning, or they could CHOOSE to live righteously!
• “Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are
that one’s slave whom you obey, whether (a slave) of sin leading to (eternal) death,
or (a slave) of obedience leading to righteousness” (Romans 6:16)


The SIN LISTS declare that anyone practicing sin cannot inherit/enter the kingdom of God!
“Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness,
lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath,
selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries,
and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that
those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21)

The other Sin Lists are: 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Ephesians 5:3-6, Colossians 3:5-6, Revelation 21:7-8.

“… and sin, when it is full grown, brings forth (eternal) death.
Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.” (James 1:15-16)


We see all of these dire warnings directed at the churches simply because:
The believer’s future sins have NOT been covered by Jesus’ blood.

“… narrow is the gate and difficult (narrow, compressed, restricted) is the way
which leads to (eternal) life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:14)


Speaking of habitual unrepentant sinners … what sense does it make when
unbelievers sin and go to hell … while … believers sin and go to heaven?

Are all of the Scriptures above a pile of nonsense?
Or perhaps you can see that your sins are NOT covered and need to be taken care of!
In another thread, we will investigate how believers are called to deal with this critical problem.

I understand what you are getting at but how then are kept saved? By works, no! By grace, certainly. Remember what John teaches, he who sins habitually and wilfully does not know The Lord. Your view smacks of a works kept salvation even if that is not what you mean.

Pete 👤
 

Cross Reference

New member
I understand what you are getting at but how then are kept saved? By works, no! By grace, certainly. Remember what John teaches, he who sins habitually and wilfully does not know The Lord. Your view smacks of a works kept salvation even if that is not what you mean.

Pete ��

Why not consider it is not about salvation but sanctification unto son-ship, to be the issue?

Certainly you can't believe that being saved makes you an heir of God, joint heir with Christ Jesus?
 

musterion

Well-known member
And in over 600 other places in the NT is it found. Why not learn a few of them? Check the context as well, while you are at it, to see nothing has changed.

The Messianic Kingdom contexts found in the Gospels and general epistles cannot be conflated with Pauline doctrine without creating unsolvable contradictions. So you're dilemma is to show where (1) Paul warned believers to remain/endure/persevere in obedient faith to ensure they aren't cast into the Lake of Fire, and then (2) balance those dire warnings against the many guarantees of the believer's eternal safety in the Body of Christ by simple virtue of what He did, not what the believer does.

You are not up to that challenge.
 

Cross Reference

New member
The Messianic Kingdom contexts found in the Gospels and general epistles cannot be conflated with Pauline doctrine without creating unsolvable contradictions. So you're dilemma is to show where (1) Paul warned believers to remain/endure/persevere in obedient faith to ensure they aren't cast into the Lake of Fire, and then (2) balance those dire warnings against the many guarantees of the believer's eternal safety in the Body of Christ by simple virtue of what He did, not what the believer does.

You are not up to that challenge.

I am perfectly fit for any challenge you might make. However, I won't argue against willful ignorance of that one with a private religious agenda. All I have ever read from you is regurgitated claptrap.
 

musterion

Well-known member
I am perfectly fit for any challenge you might make.

Then here's your challenge.

1. Post every example where Paul warned members of the Body of Christ to endure in faithful obedience lest they be severed from Christ and cast into the Lake of Fire.

2. Post every example of Paul teaching the believer's eternal safety as an inseparable member of the Body of Christ.

3. Reconcile them so as there can be no contradiction.

Since you invited it, I will post this in a separate thread.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Why not qualify it with the tiny preposition: "IF" he continues in faith.

Because then you would not actually be a slave to righteousness. A believer has no sin. You have sin, you are not a believer. Sin was dealt with at the cross. You don't like it, it is foolishness to you because you are perishing.
 

revpete

New member
Why not consider it is not about salvation but sanctification unto son-ship, to be the issue?

Certainly you can't believe that being saved makes you an heir of God, joint heir with Christ Jesus?

The promise of being an heir doesn't come through the law but through faith, as Paul says in Romans. So, yep I do but you knew that anyway. 😉

Pete 👤
 

Cross Reference

New member
Because then you would not actually be a slave to righteousness.

Why not except you say so?


A believer has no sin. You have sin, you are not a believer. Sin was dealt with at the cross. You don't like it, it is foolishness to you because you are perishing.

See what I mean? You say so and that validates what can't be otherwise validated from correct use of the word of God. You have a problem "if" you continue in that line of thought. Validate that.
 
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