You can't show us where "the lamb of God" is in the OT because it isn't there. The Jews had no concept whatsoever that their Messiah would be a God/man sacrifice.
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The Late Great Urantia Revelation
- Thread starter Caino
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You can't show us where "the lamb of God" is in the OT because it isn't there. The Jews had no concept whatsoever that their Messiah would be a God/man sacrifice.
Translation, It's completly true, that's what keeps making you so angry.
.......and John never preached that this lamb was going to be sacrificed, you also added that in your post based on Pauls atonment theory that he brought to the Christian religion.
Jesus taught salvation and forgivness by faith.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Jesus also taught that His Blood would be a ransom for many. Wish you were one of those. You'd understand The Kingdom. As it is: you cannot even yet SEE It.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
You're trying to keep people from entering The Kingdom without ever entering yourself. Pathetic.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
You're trying to keep people from entering The Kingdom without ever entering yourself. Pathetic.
journey
New member
Wrong - try Isaiah 53 and see if anything rings a bell. - Ding! Ding!
journey
New member
Yes, caino and freelight are anti-Christ. They will say and do anything to convince people to reject the Gospel of the Grace of God because Jesus Christ and the Cross are the only Way to Salvation.
True!
What does your UFO Cult think of GM, Freelight?
If that makes you feel like a human being then, go on ahead and
believe it! After all, you believe in little green men flying around
in their UFOs?
Hey Freelight, do you have any Martian friends?
Urantuuuuasn ?
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Served.........
Served.........
Well, the 'ransom' concept was introduced into some passages regarding the remembrance meal (Lord's supper/Eucharist), but its questionable, since we've already shared what the papers have Jesus saying regarding the 'symbols' of the 'bread' and 'wine', being a 'memorial-supper' in which to remember and celebrate the kingdom of heaven, its riches and abundance (both materially & spiritually), and when full spiritual fellowship of communion will be had with Jesus and his devotees in 'heaven'.
For those just joining, our coverage of 'blood-atonement/Eucharistic issues' can be portaled here. (all links pertinent, if discussion is to be had on all points)
atrol:
Indeed. The emphasis however was about being 'born from above'. For an understanding of the paper's presentation of Jesus VISIT with Nicodemus go here.
For more of a UB understanding of what it means to be 'born of the spirit', go here.
Now after reading that to understand what is being communicated, you're welcome to acknowledge what truths you discover in such discourses and/or what points you disagree with or think are from satan. Have at it. Specific points please.
Totally False. This is only from your narrow perception and conception of what Christianity is supposed to be...and that's a fact. According to your interpretation. Caino has found the teachings of the Master in this presentation to be spiritually satisfying, as well as others. In essence (ethic/principle/wisdom) the teachings of Jesus in Part 4 are the same as what is found in the gospels, only re-presenting it in a more complete or correct way according to the revelators and/or whoever was in charge of the transmissions. Logically where there is 'progressive revelation',...the essence of previous teachings is kept, but expansions or corrections are made, bringing a more ideal form and embodiment of the spiritual truths.
I have yet to see anything 'demonic' or 'satanic' in Part 4 expounding Jesus teachings. Nothing whatsoever. Only encouragement to love God and do his will, as Jesus gospel is built on the truth of the Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of all men,...and that by realizing the indwelling spirit of God, and following its divine guidance and inspiration,...all men can awaken to the recognize their 'sonship' with the Father and likewise love and serve all men, their brothers. Only love, service and the highest moral, altruistic truths and principles are espoused in the papers....charting the epic journey of all souls heavenward, along the upward path of eternal progression towards the Paradise Father. Page after page details the magnificient journey thru the mansion worlds to the more pure spiritual spheres and ultimately to Paradise.
With the above links to the actual passages and teachings of the UB on 'spirit rebirth' or being 'born from above', you have no exuse to mis-represent or malign the teachings unless you can prove them false. If you have the where-with-all to be intellectually honest about their literal and spiritual interpretation, you will have to face the truth of such findings, if you have the moral fortitude.
pj
Served.........
Well, the 'ransom' concept was introduced into some passages regarding the remembrance meal (Lord's supper/Eucharist), but its questionable, since we've already shared what the papers have Jesus saying regarding the 'symbols' of the 'bread' and 'wine', being a 'memorial-supper' in which to remember and celebrate the kingdom of heaven, its riches and abundance (both materially & spiritually), and when full spiritual fellowship of communion will be had with Jesus and his devotees in 'heaven'.
For those just joining, our coverage of 'blood-atonement/Eucharistic issues' can be portaled here. (all links pertinent, if discussion is to be had on all points)
atrol:Indeed. The emphasis however was about being 'born from above'. For an understanding of the paper's presentation of Jesus VISIT with Nicodemus go here.
For more of a UB understanding of what it means to be 'born of the spirit', go here.
Now after reading that to understand what is being communicated, you're welcome to acknowledge what truths you discover in such discourses and/or what points you disagree with or think are from satan. Have at it. Specific points please.
Totally False. This is only from your narrow perception and conception of what Christianity is supposed to be...and that's a fact. According to your interpretation. Caino has found the teachings of the Master in this presentation to be spiritually satisfying, as well as others. In essence (ethic/principle/wisdom) the teachings of Jesus in Part 4 are the same as what is found in the gospels, only re-presenting it in a more complete or correct way according to the revelators and/or whoever was in charge of the transmissions. Logically where there is 'progressive revelation',...the essence of previous teachings is kept, but expansions or corrections are made, bringing a more ideal form and embodiment of the spiritual truths.
I have yet to see anything 'demonic' or 'satanic' in Part 4 expounding Jesus teachings. Nothing whatsoever. Only encouragement to love God and do his will, as Jesus gospel is built on the truth of the Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of all men,...and that by realizing the indwelling spirit of God, and following its divine guidance and inspiration,...all men can awaken to the recognize their 'sonship' with the Father and likewise love and serve all men, their brothers. Only love, service and the highest moral, altruistic truths and principles are espoused in the papers....charting the epic journey of all souls heavenward, along the upward path of eternal progression towards the Paradise Father. Page after page details the magnificient journey thru the mansion worlds to the more pure spiritual spheres and ultimately to Paradise.
With the above links to the actual passages and teachings of the UB on 'spirit rebirth' or being 'born from above', you have no exuse to mis-represent or malign the teachings unless you can prove them false. If you have the where-with-all to be intellectually honest about their literal and spiritual interpretation, you will have to face the truth of such findings, if you have the moral fortitude.
pj
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
the symbol of the lamb........
the symbol of the lamb........
While the writer of John's gospel had John say that, this doesn't mean anyone who heard him knew what he meant, since the writer could be just adding these religious concepts into the text, as hes writing them for his audience. The gospel of John is of a later date, and has redactions in it, so its kind of a 'pieced work'.
The 'lamb of God' is a concept. It only exists in your mind's eye....like most everything else. You give it meaning, or not. The culture/religious tradition will translate the 'image' in whatever way that serves them.
pj
the symbol of the lamb........
While the writer of John's gospel had John say that, this doesn't mean anyone who heard him knew what he meant, since the writer could be just adding these religious concepts into the text, as hes writing them for his audience. The gospel of John is of a later date, and has redactions in it, so its kind of a 'pieced work'.
The 'lamb of God' is a concept. It only exists in your mind's eye....like most everything else. You give it meaning, or not. The culture/religious tradition will translate the 'image' in whatever way that serves them.
pj
Isaiah 52 and 53 are about Israel as "the suffering servant". Nothing to do with Jesus or a Messiah sacrificed.....ding-ding :doh:
Jewish converts to the Jesus movment attempted to justify their conversion and faith in Jesus as the Jewish Messiah by forcing Jesus into the OT scriptures.
You should read more about Jesus in the bible who excoriated the Leadership of the Jews for rejecting him, his spiritual teachings as well as the prophets.
I'm born again of the spirit. And Jesus was referring to those who needed to repent nit those who were already spirit born.
Jesus never taught Pauls atonment theory, but you cherry pick Jesus while ignoring his original gospel in order to follow Paulanity.
Scapegoating using the death of the Son of God.
The "good news" of the Gospel of Jesus was that ALL men and women are the Sons and daughters of the Living God, that by faith we may realize this ennobling truth. If we have sinned and are separate from God we need to face the truth, acknowledge our fault, simply ask for forgiveness and in turn forgive others.
......but man had a difficult time accepting the good news or truth of his sonship with God, so the human sacrifice of Jesus easily became a substitute concept in Pauls' Christian religion. So in primitive Christianity, Jesus became the final scapegoat of mankind, one merely needs to acknowledge belief in this primitive idea, go through blood drinking and flesh eating rituals to be cleansed from sin rather than being willing to change.
^^
SIN, SACRIFICE, AND ATONEMENT
89:0.1 PRIMITIVE MAN REGARDED himself as being in debt to the spirits, as standing in need of redemption. As the savages looked at it, in justice the spirits might have visited much more bad luck upon them. As time passed, this concept developed into the doctrine of sin and salvation. The soul was looked upon as coming into the world under forfeit—original sin. The soul must be ransomed; a scapegoat must be provided. The head-hunter, in addition to practicing the cult of skull worship, was able to provide a substitute for his own life, a scapeman.
89:0.2 The savage was early possessed with the notion that spirits derive supreme satisfaction from the sight of human misery, suffering, and humiliation. At first, man was only concerned with sins of commission, but later he became exercised over sins of omission. And the whole subsequent sacrificial system grew up around these two ideas. This new ritual had to do with the observance of the propitiation ceremonies of sacrifice. Primitive man believed that something special must be done to win the favor of the gods; only advanced civilization recognizes a consistently even-tempered and benevolent God. Propitiation was insurance against immediate ill luck rather than investment in future bliss. And the rituals of avoidance, exorcism, coercion, and propitiation all merge into one another."
=
=
86:3.3 All human disease and natural death was at first believed to be due to spirit influence. Even at the present time some civilized races regard disease as having been produced by "the enemy" and depend upon religious ceremonies to effect healing. Later and more complex systems of theology still ascribe death to the action of the spirit world, all of which has led to such doctrines as original sin and the fall of man.
89:4.5 The earliest idea of the sacrifice was that of a neutrality assessment levied by ancestral spirits; only later did the idea of atonement develop. As man got away from the notion of the evolutionary origin of the race, as the traditions of the days of the Planetary Prince and the sojourn of Adam filtered down through time, the concept of sin and of original sin became widespread, so that sacrifice for accidental and personal sin evolved into the doctrine of sacrifice for the atonement of racial sin. The atonement of the sacrifice was a blanket insurance device which covered even the resentment and jealousy of an unknown god.
89:4.6 Surrounded by so many sensitive spirits and grasping gods, primitive man was face to face with such a host of creditor deities that it required all the priests, ritual, and sacrifices throughout an entire lifetime to get him out of spiritual debt. The doctrine of original sin, or racial guilt, started every person out in serious debt to the spirit powers.
UB 1955
89:0.2 The savage was early possessed with the notion that spirits derive supreme satisfaction from the sight of human misery, suffering, and humiliation. At first, man was only concerned with sins of commission, but later he became exercised over sins of omission. And the whole subsequent sacrificial system grew up around these two ideas. This new ritual had to do with the observance of the propitiation ceremonies of sacrifice. Primitive man believed that something special must be done to win the favor of the gods; only advanced civilization recognizes a consistently even-tempered and benevolent God. Propitiation was insurance against immediate ill luck rather than investment in future bliss. And the rituals of avoidance, exorcism, coercion, and propitiation all merge into one another."
=
=
86:3.3 All human disease and natural death was at first believed to be due to spirit influence. Even at the present time some civilized races regard disease as having been produced by "the enemy" and depend upon religious ceremonies to effect healing. Later and more complex systems of theology still ascribe death to the action of the spirit world, all of which has led to such doctrines as original sin and the fall of man.
89:4.5 The earliest idea of the sacrifice was that of a neutrality assessment levied by ancestral spirits; only later did the idea of atonement develop. As man got away from the notion of the evolutionary origin of the race, as the traditions of the days of the Planetary Prince and the sojourn of Adam filtered down through time, the concept of sin and of original sin became widespread, so that sacrifice for accidental and personal sin evolved into the doctrine of sacrifice for the atonement of racial sin. The atonement of the sacrifice was a blanket insurance device which covered even the resentment and jealousy of an unknown god.
89:4.6 Surrounded by so many sensitive spirits and grasping gods, primitive man was face to face with such a host of creditor deities that it required all the priests, ritual, and sacrifices throughout an entire lifetime to get him out of spiritual debt. The doctrine of original sin, or racial guilt, started every person out in serious debt to the spirit powers.
UB 1955
The "good news" of the Gospel of Jesus was that ALL men and women are the Sons and daughters of the Living God, that by faith we may realize this ennobling truth. If we have sinned and are separate from God we need to face the truth, acknowledge our fault, simply ask for forgiveness and in turn forgive others.
......but man had a difficult time accepting the good news or truth of his sonship with God, so the human sacrifice of Jesus easily became a substitute concept in Pauls' Christian religion. So in primitive Christianity, Jesus became the final scapegoat of mankind, one merely needs to acknowledge belief in this primitive idea, go through blood drinking and flesh eating rituals to be cleansed from sin rather than being willing to change.
^^
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Aimiel
Well-known member
No, you're dead in your trespasses and sins.
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Again, as I've said, you don't get to cherry-pick The Holy Scriptures. You either believe Them or you don't. You don't, obviously.
Fortunately for the reset of us, you may play the self righteous judge of everyone on the internet, God doesn't care what your opinion of me is.
Well, you can't be saved because you deny the Grace of God, and
have placed ALL of your faith in the "UFO Cult" known as the
Urantia Book! You may have somehow tricked yourself into
believing you're "OK" with God however, it's only a delusion!
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