The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[Lon]

Galatians 1:6a I marvel that you are so easily duped (are so simple-minded)!!!
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you other than what we preached to you, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, and now I say again, If anyone preaches a gospel to you beside what you have received, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:10 For now do I persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:11 And, brothers, I make known to you the gospel which was preached by me, that it is not according to man.
Galatians 1:12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it except by a revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[journey]

Galatians 1:6a I marvel that you are so easily duped (are so simple-minded)!!!
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you other than what we preached to you, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, and now I say again, If anyone preaches a gospel to you beside what you have received, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:10 For now do I persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:11 And, brothers, I make known to you the gospel which was preached by me, that it is not according to man.
Galatians 1:12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it except by a revelation of Jesus Christ.

Amen! This portion of Scripture fits the situation completely and speaks volumes.

 

[Caino]

Galatians 1:6a I marvel that you are so easily duped (are so simple-minded)!!!
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you other than what we preached to you, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, and now I say again, If anyone preaches a gospel to you beside what you have received, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:10 For now do I persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:11 And, brothers, I make known to you the gospel which was preached by me, that it is not according to man.
Galatians 1:12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it except by a revelation of Jesus Christ.

Paul just happened to be the first great charismatic leader and evangelist, he never knew Jesus personally. The Gentile world heard about Jesus largely through Paul and his successors. Christianity and most of the New Testament is Jesus according to Paul who unwittingly brought his own ideas and hence his own gospel message to the world. But Paul was saved, converted after his rebirth on the Damascus road. Paul DID in fact become one of the greatest religious teachers in the world. But Paul never dreamed that his teaching and simple letters of correspondence would one day be converted to The Word Of God by the church at Rome. Consequently Paul's words carry equal weight with Jesus in the Bible.

The original Gospel that Jesus preached to the Jews is the gospel that the Jews would be preaching from Jerusalem today. But the Jews rejected that message because it conflicted with their religious beliefs and nationalist EGO. Jesus could never be the Jews Messiah because he did not meet their expectations based on the writings of their former priest which became sacred and eventually considered Gods Word.


159:4.5 "Nathaniel, never permit yourself for one moment to believe the Scripture records which tell you that the God of love directed your forefathers to go forth in battle to slay all their enemies—men, women, and children. Such records are the words of men, not very holy men, and they are not the word of God. The Scriptures always have, and always will, reflect the intellectual, moral, and spiritual status of those who create them. Have you not noted that the concepts of Yahweh grow in beauty and glory as the prophets make their records from Samuel to Isaiah? And you should remember that the Scriptures are intended for religious instruction and spiritual guidance. They are not the works of either historians or philosophers.

159:4.6 “The thing most deplorable is not merely this erroneous idea of the absolute perfection of the Scripture record and the infallibility of its teachings, but rather the confusing misinterpretation of these sacred writings by the tradition-enslaved scribes and Pharisees at Jerusalem. And now will they employ both the doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures and their misinterpretations thereof in their determined effort to withstand these newer teachings of the gospel of the kingdom. Nathaniel, never forget, the Father does not limit the revelation of truth to any one generation or to any one people. Many earnest seekers after the truth have been, and will continue to be, confused and disheartened by these doctrines of the perfection of the Scriptures.

159:4.7 “The authority of truth is the very spirit that indwells its living manifestations, and not the dead words of the less illuminated and supposedly inspired men of another generation. And even if these holy men of old lived inspired and spirit-filled lives, that does not mean that their words were similarly spiritually inspired. Today we make no record of the teachings of this gospel of the kingdom lest, when I have gone, you speedily become divided up into sundry groups of truth contenders as a result of the diversity of your interpretation of my teachings. For this generation it is best that we live these truths while we shun the making of records." Jesus of the UB 1955

 

[Lon]

Spoiler

159:4.5 "Nathaniel, never permit yourself for one moment to believe the Scripture records which tell you that the God of love directed your forefathers to go forth in battle to slay all their enemies—men, women, and children. Such records are the words of men, not very holy men, and they are not the word of God. The Scriptures always have, and always will, reflect the intellectual, moral, and spiritual status of those who create them. Have you not noted that the concepts of Yahweh grow in beauty and glory as the prophets make their records from Samuel to Isaiah? And you should remember that the Scriptures are intended for religious instruction and spiritual guidance. They are not the works of either historians or philosophers.

159:4.6 “The thing most deplorable is not merely this erroneous idea of the absolute perfection of the Scripture record and the infallibility of its teachings, but rather the confusing misinterpretation of these sacred writings by the tradition-enslaved scribes and Pharisees at Jerusalem. And now will they employ both the doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures and their misinterpretations thereof in their determined effort to withstand these newer teachings of the gospel of the kingdom. Nathaniel, never forget, the Father does not limit the revelation of truth to any one generation or to any one people. Many earnest seekers after the truth have been, and will continue to be, confused and disheartened by these doctrines of the perfection of the Scriptures.

159:4.7 “The authority of truth is the very spirit that indwells its living manifestations, and not the dead words of the less illuminated and supposedly inspired men of another generation. And even if these holy men of old lived inspired and spirit-filled lives, that does not mean that their words were similarly spiritually inspired. Today we make no record of the teachings of this gospel of the kingdom lest, when I have gone, you speedily become divided up into sundry groups of truth contenders as a result of the diversity of your interpretation of my teachings. For this generation it is best that we live these truths while we shun the making of records." Jesus of the UB 1955

Galatians 1:6a I marvel that you are so easily duped (are so simple-minded)!!!
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you other than what we preached to you, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, and now I say again, If anyone preaches a gospel to you beside what you have received, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:10 For now do I persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:11 And, brothers, I make known to you the gospel which was preached by me, that it is not according to man.
Galatians 1:12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it except by a revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[freelight]

Paul's opinion doesnt jettison the teaching of Jesus

Paul's opinion doesnt jettison the teaching of Jesus

Galatians 1:6a I marvel that you are so easily duped (are so simple-minded)!!!
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you other than what we preached to you, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, and now I say again, If anyone preaches a gospel to you beside what you have received, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:10 For now do I persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:11 And, brothers, I make known to you the gospel which was preached by me, that it is not according to man.
Galatians 1:12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it except by a revelation of Jesus Christ.

This only shows that Paul esteemed his own gospel over any others and dared to even 'curse' anyone that taught something different. What he was also doing would be deeming the original apostles teachings to be "accursed" since his gospel was different than theirs, so he was actually doing just that, since his contention with Peter was just the tip of the iceberg of conflict brooding between Paul and the Jerusalem Church (original followers of Jesus), who were still very loyal to some essentials of Jewish custom and tradition. Paul was veering far from that with his anti-law teaching and salvation by grace thru faith and other 'personal revelations'. So this 'boast' from Paul is only his own religious ego and protest over his contention with 'contenders' of his teaching, and he gloats over this by affirming it all came to him by 'personal revelation'. On this count you can relegate Jesus teaching about honoring, doing and fulfilling the law to be "accursed", since Matthew holds Jesus as being a very good Torah-abiding Jew. This is just one of the problems with Paul's movement branching out from the more Torah-abiding followers of Jesus, which the Jerusalem Council tried to resolve (not sure how successfully), but is still a question or complexity even today among 'Messianic Jews' or those Christians trying to be more "Jewish" in their faith today. (Hebrew roots movements,etc.)

The Discussion of Jesus with Nathaniel still stands here. - 'scriptures' are written by man, and also prone to be manipulated or misrepresented by man as well, since he is the imperfect medium thru which writings come, and man can alter or use such 'scriptures' for his own purposes or agendas. Exalting or worshipping any 'letter' above the Spirit of truth itself, is something Paul himself was against, since he wrote the "letter kills, but the Spirit gives life". As noted earlier he would have probably been surprised if his 'letters' were later esteemd as 'holy scripture', but on another level in his own 'self-esteem' he would have probably approved, except of course those portions where he is openly saying "this is just my opinion". We've treated Paul on many other threads, and whole books are written about the enigma he is.

What Jesus teaches in the UB is available for anyone to consider for themselves, as truth (in principle) does not fear honest investigation, since Jesus encourages one to ask, seek and knock. - this is an on-going endeavor as grow in grace.

For those new to the thread, one can begin with the OP and follow the discussion so far, engaging in a 'creative dialogue' since this is a wonderful subject and tome to explore with many old and new concepts. A seeker of truth must research and discover things for himself. That's what 'discussion' is about, keeping it civil and constructive.

 

[freelight]

Paul may not be "all that" you assume he is.......

Paul may not be "all that" you assume he is.......

Amen! This portion of Scripture fits the situation completely and speaks volumes.

Its a claim from Paul, but that doesn't make it 'scripture', and you cant use 2 Peter either, since its 'pseudographical'. Note the context of this letter of Paul is his protest with the original apostles of Jesus (namely his conflict with Peter in this case, but Peter represents the Jerusalem Community and their adherence to Jewish customs).

A very interesting indepth study of Paul by Bet Emet Ministries - here (honest, open, objective research).

The ordeal going on in the Book of Galations is researched in the last 4 links on this page here.

This is dealing directly with Paul and the book you refer as some way of discounting the UB, which is really doesn't.
"Speaking volumes" is a relative term, especially if from a particular bias, polemic or apologetic stance. It would speak volumes to actually open your mind, expand your horizon and learn what it is you criticize, researching all things before presuming and passing judgment.

 

[journey]

freelight,

I have the reality of God's Word, and it doesn't include the ub or any other fabricated nonsense.

 

[freelight]

Lets explore the cosmology, principles, value and meanings behind the concepts.......

Lets explore the cosmology, principles, value and meanings behind the concepts.......

freelight,

I have the reality of God's Word, and it doesn't include the ub or any other fabricated nonsense.

What you have is a "belief" that you have the reality of "God's Word" (which you limit to 'The Bible'), while also having a biased, misconstrued, antagonistic view of the UB, of which you haven't offered any intelligent discussion about since you refuse to discuss what it actually teaches, a tome of over 2,000 pages on a great variety of subjects. This goes on in circles with you like a merry-go-round that goes nowhere, since you have made up your mind before a thorough examination, let alone the values, meanings and truths it teaches 'in principle'.

So, all you've brought to this discussion is the same ole pot-shots, nay-saying and polemics typical to sling-shot apologetics, which is set out to demonize anything besides its own "golden calf".

The resources on Paul would very illumining for you, but you refuse to expand your mind and consider other possibilities, and one that might be most scary for you, is that you just might be wrong, in your presumptions. An honest investigation of truth, has nothing to fear,...and here I speak mostly of values, meanings and principles, including whatever unique or expanded concepts the papers present to humanity.

Since this thread has gone on for many pages, one of the largest threads on TOL I gather,....it remains a creative dialogue endeavor, for those who can get past their 'dogmatism' and defense of 'orthodoxy' to consider cosmic concepts and a cosmology that pushes the bounderies of their imagination...and just might super-charge their faith even

As per my request earlier,...I recommended going thru the first 3 papers, which are the fundamentals of God's nature and character, which aligns to the judeo-Christian concept/revelation of 'God', but more is added to expand a greater cosmic comprehension of the whole, and the eternal purpose of God. Again, we consider and research the descriptions of God, the cosmos, and his relationship to souls in light of the context of the eternal purpose and plan of life itself....which is 'eternal progress', 'unfolding evolution' and a movement towards 'being perfect as Our Heavenly Father is perfect'....remember Jesus said that is how our love is to be, just like his,...that is if you trust the words in the gospels. (cherry picking asides).

Selah......

 

[journey]

freelight,

Your endeavor here is a dead end, and I do mean dead. You beg for people to read your ungodly materials, and you have NO takers. If this thread was compared to a sick horse, it would be put out of its misery. The horse is already dead in this case, and the vultures are picking the bones. Don't you know this? By the way, the size of the thread means nothing. It's like having a BIG pile of manure.

 

[Lon]

This only shows that Paul esteemed his own gospel over any others and dared to even 'curse' anyone that taught something different. What he was also doing would be deeming the original apostles teachings to be "accursed" since his gospel was different than theirs...

You are trying to excuse yourself. "If" there were a separate gospel for the Jews at the time, it was only that gentiles weren't to be Judaized. ALL contenders such as what you are trying to pawn are against this gospel. John 14:6 Acts 4:12 Jews today only have this gospel, they no longer have a priesthood. You guys are weird to come against Christians and with a false 'good news.' You guys are bizarre, and by the scripture, accursed.

Galatians 1:6a I marvel that you are so easily duped (are so simple-minded)!!!
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you other than what we preached to you, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, and now I say again, If anyone preaches a gospel to you beside what you have received, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:10 For now do I persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:11 And, brothers, I make known to you the gospel which was preached by me, that it is not according to man.
Galatians 1:12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it except by a revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[Caino]

They thought Jesus was weird to, all pig headed theology lawyer types have rejected the prophets and their revelations. Jesus' family said he was "beside himself". They went out and tried to stop him. The Jews also used the holy men's scripture books against Jesus.

Fact is, Jesus left without living up to the Jews sacred writings. He didn't even bring the wrath John the Baptist preached. The discredited Jews still wait in vain for David's corrupt seat to be filled.

 

[freelight]

Paul, another look........

Paul, another look........

You are trying to excuse yourself. "If" there were a separate gospel for the Jews at the time, it was only that gentiles weren't to be Judaized. ALL contenders such as what you are trying to pawn are against this gospel. John 14:6 Acts 4:12 Jews today only have this gospel, they no longer have a priesthood. You guys are weird to come against Christians and with a false 'good news.' You guys are bizarre, and by the scripture, accursed.

The problems with Paul remain, and Paul made that 'claim' because of contentions he had with Peter who also represented the Jerusalem Community,...something you might want to research a little deeper (hence the resource links supplied). Paul made many 'boasts', and claimed only his 'personal revelations' and his vision of Jesus as some kind of 'authentification' of his 'gospel'. He knew it was 'his own gospel', somewhat different from the original apostles of the Lord Jesus, those who actually walked and talked with him.

Saying "you guys" above shows a party-mentality, as if to group people into a 'class' or 'cult', when this is simply a discussion thread on the Urantia Papers, exploring its theology. I don't fear a boast by Paul about being 'accursed' because someone didn't receive a 'gospel' according to his specifications, since different gospels existed at that time, which is why Paul felt it necessary to curse others. Again Paul had to fall back on his own 'revelations', he could not claim that the pillars of the Jerusalem Church, Peter, James and John sanctioned or confirmed his 'revelations', which is why he had to go outside of Jerusalem to gain converts.

Galatians 1:6a I marvel that you are so easily duped (are so simple-minded)!!!
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you other than what we preached to you, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, and now I say again, If anyone preaches a gospel to you beside what you have received, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:10 For now do I persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:11 And, brothers, I make known to you the gospel which was preached by me, that it is not according to man.
Galatians 1:12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it except by a revelation of Jesus Christ.

Repeatedly quoting the 'threatening words' from Paul above does not necessarily discredit any other gospel-version, but only according to Paul. His 'zeal' apparently got the best of him at times.

 

[journey]

The urantia UFO cult and materials is a take it or leave it situation. It has been left - no takers.

 

[Lon]

Repeatedly quoting the 'threatening words' from Paul above does not necessarily discredit any other gospel-version, but only according to Paul. His 'zeal' apparently got the best of him at times.

:nono:

1) It is where you are posting. This is the only response you'll get from us on a Christian board

Galatians 1:6a I marvel that you are so easily duped (are so simple-minded)!!!
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you other than what we preached to you, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, and now I say again, If anyone preaches a gospel to you beside what you have received, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:10 For now do I persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:11 And, brothers, I make known to you the gospel which was preached by me, that it is not according to man.
Galatians 1:12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it except by a revelation of Jesus Christ.

2) God's word is powerful and active to the pulling down of strongholds 2 Corinthians 10:4 Isaiah 55:11 1 Peter 1:25
The false middle school-level message of the UB cannot contend with God's Word. :yawn: lain:

3) Paul 1 Corinthians 2:14, Peter 2 Peter 2:1-2, Jesus John 3:3 , John 1 John 5:1, Jude 1:19, and James 3:15 talked about the man without the Spirit. You talk as a man embracing his 'inner god/inner divinity' which is nothing more than, still separated from God believing the serpent's lie that you will be 'as gods.' It was this arrogance that separates men from God in the first place. You make your bed in heresy and being accursed. It isn't just Paul. No man that knows the Bible says such ignorant things.

Galatians 1:6a I marvel that you are so easily duped (are so simple-minded)!!!
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you other than what we preached to you, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, and now I say again, If anyone preaches a gospel to you beside what you have received, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:10 For now do I persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:11 And, brothers, I make known to you the gospel which was preached by me, that it is not according to man.
Galatians 1:12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it except by a revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[Caino]

Lots of people over the centuries have believed they were Jesus or taught by Jesus. Paul's experience was legitimate, millions have been "born again" but in no sense did Paul receive a "new gospel" from Jesus. Paul got some of his ideas from Peters post cross speculation about Jesus being a final sacrifice. Both Peter and Paul were Jews who entertained the old Pagan beliefs that "there is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood". Jesus taught that God IS forgiving, that forgiveness comes from sincere repentance and experienced by forgiving others.

It is not our intention to attack the many Christian doctrines any more than it was Jesus' intent to attack evolved Judaism. The Urantia revelation takes us back to the original gospel of the kingdom of heaven taught, lived and preached by Jesus. Christianity became a religion about Jesus, it has drifted so far away from the original that it's not really the gospel anymore. That's not our fault. And the larger revelation of the UB takes us back to the beginning of our universe, the evolution of our planet, the evolution of man, social evolution, the evolution of religion, and the history of revelation and subsequent religions. We now have the actual history of Judaism before the Hebrew priest rewrote and exaggerated their history in Babylon. We have the entire life story of Jesus of Nazareth. What a wonderful gift it is to those open minded and open hearted enough to receive it.

 

[journey]

The ub is a recently fabricated work that contradicts God's Word - the Holy Bible. If you want the TRUTH, go to God's Word.

 

[freelight]

The false middle school-level message of the UB cannot contend with God's Word. :yawn: lain:

You obviously haven't read most of the papers which are far more advanced than 'middle school' level. You've but singled out a few passages in Part 4 that appear elementary in their rendering, and criticising whatever flaws or inconsistencies you can find. You have yet to read the foreword and it's conceptual overlay and chronology of the origin of the cosmos/creation and nature of God, subjects that surpass the grade school level accounts of Jesus. You can't see the forest for a few trees....and are already poised to attack anything that is not in strict accordance to your interpretation of the Bible, more specifically Paul's gospel.

You can read The Foreword and see if that is on a 'middle school's level of comprehension. This is but an brief outline of the theology, cosmogony/cosmology revealed in the papers. Part 4 on Jesus came in later in time as a final chapter to finish the 5th Epochal Revelation to the planet. Some parts may be a bit juvenile in grammar, other parts far advanced in concept and terminology. It's a tome of 196 papers by various authors.

 

[journey]

Intelligent people don't fall for the urantia UFO cult or its materials. This is why you have zero takers here on TOL.

 

[Caino]

You obviously haven't read most of the papers which are far more advanced than 'middle school' level. You've but singled out a few passages in Part 4 that appear elementary in their rendering, and criticising whatever flaws or inconsistencies you can find. You have yet to read the foreword and it's conceptual overlay and chronology of the origin of the cosmos/creation and nature of God, subjects that surpass the grade school level accounts of Jesus. You can't see the forest for a few trees....and are already poised to attack anything that is not in strict accordance to your interpretation of the Bible, more specifically Paul's gospel.

You can read The Foreword and see if that is on a 'middle school's level of comprehension. This is but an brief outline of the theology, cosmogony/cosmology revealed in the papers. Part 4 on Jesus came in later in time as a final chapter to finish the 5th Epochal Revelation to the planet. Some parts may be a bit juvenile in grammar, other parts far advanced in concept and terminology. It's a tome of 196 papers by various authors.

Paul also persecuted disciples of Jesus, it was after witnessing Steven being stoned to death that he had a change of heart. These so called followers of Jesus persecute the carriers of the latest revelation of Christ and would stone us if they could.

 

[Lon]

You obviously haven't read most of the papers which are far more advanced than 'middle school' level. You've but singled out a few passages in Part 4 that appear elementary in their rendering, and criticising whatever flaws or inconsistencies you can find. You have yet to read the foreword and it's conceptual overlay and chronology of the origin of the cosmos/creation and nature of God, subjects that surpass the grade school level accounts of Jesus. You can't see the forest for a few trees....and are already poised to attack anything that is not in strict accordance to your interpretation of the Bible, more specifically Paul's gospel.

You can read The Foreword and see if that is on a 'middle school's level of comprehension. This is but an brief outline of the theology, cosmogony/cosmology revealed in the papers. Part 4 on Jesus came in later in time as a final chapter to finish the 5th Epochal Revelation to the planet. Some parts may be a bit juvenile in grammar, other parts far advanced in concept and terminology. It's a tome of 196 papers by various authors.

:nono: I've read far more than you think, while not appreciating it, just to reveal the incredible flaws and poor scholastics of it. It is terrible.

Galatians 1:6a I marvel that you are so easily duped (are so simple-minded)!!!
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you other than what we preached to you, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, and now I say again, If anyone preaches a gospel to you beside what you have received, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:10 For now do I persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:11 And, brothers, I make known to you the gospel which was preached by me, that it is not according to man.
Galatians 1:12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it except by a revelation of Jesus Christ.