The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !

[Nanja]

Many do falsely teach that the world in Jn 3:16 that God so loved is inclusive of all mankind without exception. This they teach wilfully in spite of the various meanings and usages of the word world in scripture. One of the meanings of the word world kosmos is:

any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

For example the collection of all Gods Sheep, or the gathering together of all Gods children constitute a kosmos or world.

Jesus loved His own in the world Jn 13:1

[FONT="]Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father,[B] having loved his own which were in the world[/B], he loved them unto the end.

So His Own here is a world which is contrasted to the world they were in !

Now is world of Jn 3:16 which God in Christ so Loved the same as the ungodly world Peter refers to here 2 Pet 2:5

[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial][B]5 [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

What about the world Christ refused to pray for Jn 17:9

[/FONT]9 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]I pray for them: [/FONT]I pray not for the world, [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Do you really believe this world is the world of Jn 3:16 that God so Loved in Christ ?[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]What about the world in 1 Jn 5:19 which is distinguished from the children of God:[/FONT]

19 [FONT="]And we know that we[Believers] are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

Is the world God so loved in Christ Jn 3:16 that Christ is the propitiation of 1 Jn 2:2 the same world that shall be condemned 1 Cor 11:32

[/FONT]32 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]But when we[Children of God/Believers] are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, [/FONT]that we should not be condemned with the world.

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]So those who teach Jn 3:16 teaches that God so Loved the whole of humanity without exception, because of the word world in Jn 3:16, they are guilty of using the word of God deceitfully.[/FONT]

Absolutely ! When we contrast the scriptures that speak of two different worlds of people, it's obvious that the Salvation Christ provided was exclusively for the World John 3:16 of His People Mat. 1:21, and not for the condemned world of people 1 Cor. 11:32, the generation of vipers Christ spoke of in Mat. 23:32-33, which He Created to suffer eternal shame and contempt.

Mat. 23:32-33

32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Dan. 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life John 3:16, and some to shame and everlasting contempt John 3:18, 36.

Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[beloved57]

Scripture declares God hates all workers of iniquity Ps. 5:5, and Esau was one of them Rom. 9:13, and all his posterity: God's Vessels of Wrath He Purposely Created to be destroyed.

Rom. 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:


The workers of iniquity are all those who permanently remain in their sins because God never loved them nor did Christ die for them. Therefore they are without hope of being redeemed: Doomed to destruction !

Job 21:30 That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

Absolutely Sister and God has nothing but hatred for them.

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[beloved57]

Absolutely ! When we contrast the scriptures that speak of two different worlds of people, it's obvious that the Salvation Christ provided was exclusively for the World John 3:16 of His People Mat. 1:21, and not for the condemned world of people 1 Cor. 11:32, the generation of vipers Christ spoke of in Mat. 23:32-33, which He Created to suffer eternal shame and contempt.

Mat. 23:32-33

32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Dan. 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life John 3:16, and some to shame and everlasting contempt John 3:18, 36.

Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Amen you nailed it again my Sister. May God continue us in His Truth.

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[Nanja]

Absolutely Sister and God has nothing but hatred for them.

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Yes, so these comprise the world [kosmos] that God hated !

 

[Nanja]

Amen you nailed it again my Sister. May God continue us in His Truth.

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I Praise God for that.

He shall continue us in His Truth my Brother:

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: [Phil. 1:6]

 

[Nanja]

Now if God Loved all without exception, then in Love, He predestnated all without exception. If He predestinated all without exception, then He must have foreknew all without exception according to Rom 8:29

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Amen Brother ! Scripture is clear that God does not Love all men without exception, therefore neither were they predestinated to be conformed to the Image of His Son and foreknown of Him. For to many He will say these Words:

Mat. 7:23

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[DAN P]

Hi oatmeal and you hit the NAIL on the head >

1 Cor 13:13 reads , And NOW remains FAITH , HOPE and LOVE !!

When Christ come for His won FAITH will disappear , because we will then walk by SIGHT !!

HOPE will disappear as we will see Him as He is !!

Then there ABIDETH only LOVE as the Greek ABIDETH / MENO , which is in the PRESENT TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE VOICE !!

The PRESENT TENSE means that LOVE IS CONTINUOUS ACTION and the ACTIVE VOICE means that Christ is the one doing this action !!

The INDICATIVE MOOD means that what HOLY SPIRIT wrote is a FACT !!

dan p

 

[beloved57]

Amen Brother ! Scripture is clear that God does not Love all men without exception, therefore neither were they predestinated to be conformed to the Image of His Son and foreknown of Him. For to many He will say these Words:

Mat. 7:23

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Exactly Sister Nanja !

 

[Nanja]

Them he also glorified.

And finally, them that He Justified, them He also Glorified !

Rom 8:30

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Notice that scripture uses the past tense here, them He also glorified. All for whom God Loved have been and will be Glorified. They were glorified first of all when they rose together with their Glorious Head, when He was Glorified after having been raised up from the dead. Remember when Jesus said, speaking of His impending death Lk 24:26

26Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

His Glory was entered into when He sat down at the Right Hand of God after completing the redemption of His People ! Heb 1:3

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

This is of that Glory He had with the Father before the world was John 17:5

5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Now, when Christ was raised up to enter into this Glory, all for whom He represented also was raised up together with Him and also made to sit together with Him in heavenly Places Eph 2:6

6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

In this connection, lets look at Col 3:

1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

I made this connection because its vital to the point I am making about those Christ died and rose in behalf of, were raised up with Him above where He sits at the right hand of God, and so do they.

Now in this connection, we should more clearly understand Christ words to Nicodemus John 3:3

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

This word born again is actually being born from above, so it can be read " Except a man be born from above, he cannot see or perceive the Kingdom of God.

Lets look at at a few other translations of this verse !

ISV Jesus replied to him, "Truly, I tell you with certainty, unless a person is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God."

GWT Jesus replied to Nicodemus, "I can guarantee this truth: No one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."

YLT Jesus answered and said to him, 'Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'


Its referring to a New Birth from above !

ESV Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In other words, unless one is born again anew out from above, where Christ and they in Him sit at the Right Hand of God, they cannot see the Kingdom of God.

Yes, to make it plain, only those Glorified together with Christ [Rom 8:30] are being born again anew, being born again requires having been raised up together with Christ at His resurrection and being seated at the Right Hand of God in Heavenly Places Eph 2:

6And hath raised us up together[Glorified], and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Now, if God Loved all without exception, then all them He Loved have been Glorified together with Him and will be born again from above.

Those of you who insist that God Loved all without exception, are insisting [ though unwittingly] that all without exception shall be born from above where they sit with Christ on God's Right hand, there is no way around it.

But the truly enlightened know better, we know that all without exception were not raised up together with Christ and shall not be born anew from above, and so we rightly conclude, that God did not Love all men without exception !

Amen to this excellent post; and Yes we do know better My Brother !

 

[Bright Raven]

Amen to this excellent post; and Yes we do know better My Brother !

Does God love the unrepentant sinner?

 

[Nanja]

Does God love the unrepentant sinner?

God Loves all His Elect no matter what condition they're in, for Christ's Righteousness has been imputed to every one of them !

Rom. 4:8 Blessed [happy; to be envied] is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

And they are a specific World of men:

2 Cor. 5:19; 21

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Rom. 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

 

[Nanja]

John 3:16

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The World that God so Loved here in this text, has to be a world Chosen in Christ, and had to have a previous Union with Him or Else, there is another Love of God besides that which He has that is in Christ Jesus Per Rom 8:38-39

38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God has no Love for any who He does not consider in Christ Jesus. Now Does He consider all without exception in Christ Jesus ? What about the devil and his children, the children of the wicked one as per Matt 13:38

38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

Are they in that world that God so Loved in Christ Jesus ?

No they are not. God never loved this portion of mankind: the children of the devil Mat. 13:38, the tares he sowed in the world Mat. 13:25; God's Vessels of wrath Rom. 9:22 He Created to be destroyed; the wicked He made to be burned Mat. 13:40 in the day of evil.

Prov. 16:4

The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

 

[Nanja]

John 17:23-24

20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

If God Loved all men without exception, this implies that all men without exception were in a Eternal Union with Christ before the foundation of the world.

This would also mean that the children of the wicked one, the tares as described here Matt 13:38

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

That they were Eternally Loved and in Union with Christ before the foundation of the world. Such thinking is utter madness and blasphemous.

Its to say that God so Loved the children of devil as He Loved Christ !

Utter blasphemy indeed !

 

[Bright Raven]

Utter blasphemy indeed !

1 John 2:2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

 

[Nanja]

I know that God does not Love everyone without exception because everyone without exception is not and will not be quickened because of His Great Love. Eph 2:4-5

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

God performed this deed for those He Loved while they were dead in sins. Not when they repented or when they came in Faith, but even while dead. In fact coming in repentance and faith are direct results of having been quickened or made alive.

The psalmist wrote once this Ps 80:18

18So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.

The calling upon the name of the Lord follows the quickening..

God's Love to those He Loves is not just a mere emotion, but it is also application. God's Love gives Life [spiritual] to dead sinners.

This was Illustrated with Jesus and the story of Lazarus See Jn 11:3,36

Lazarus was one for scripture says Jesus loved " behold, how He loved him"

Christ love was demonstrated by quickening Lazarus from the dead.

God nor Christ's Love could be of no lesser degree of that which they command of their followers. 1 Jn 3:16-18

16Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

17But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

18My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Let us Love in deed. The word deed is the same word in the greek for work, its the word ergon and it means doing !

James using the almost same identical situation adds this James 2:


15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Does not God's Love give those He Loves what is needful for their souls.

God's Love gives those He loves, and sees them dead in trespasses and sins, He is mover with compassion and gives them life from the dead. Love expresses itself in deed to the brethren.

Now are not those Christ died for considered His brethren ? Heb 2:11,17

11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Where they not His Brethren before they believed in Him ? Yes they were, thats why He was made like unto them to deliver them from their spiritual ruin and enmity against God.

Was He not the Firstborn of many Brethren who had not yet been born sinners ? Rom 8:29

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

If Christ sees one of His Brethren dead in trespasses and sins, and He has all Power in His Hands, will He suffer His Brethren, whom for sure He Loves, to remain helpless in that dead state ? Cannot and will He not quicken whomsoever He wills? Jn 5:21

21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. Certainly He will s to quicken those He Loves, He laid His life down for them. Jn 15:13

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Scripture says that He died for them while they were yet enemies, and in spite of that, by His death He reconciled them to God, and those so reconciled [even while dead in sin and enemies] Shall be saved[Experientially] by His Life. That says it all.

It can read Shall be quickened by His Life, made alive. So, those who die in their sins, dead to God, alienated from Him, God did not Love them, nor did Christ Love them and Lay down His Life for them, if He did ,He would have quickened them, made them alive, saved them. Eph 2:5

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Ye see that ? The quickening results in being saved by Grace..

Yes I see it Brother ! Christ Loves all His Brethren Eph. 1:4,6, and shall Quicken every one of them, the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5; make them Spiritually Alive at some point in their lifetime Eph. 2:4-5, 8; because even while they were enemies and unbelievers, Christ laid down His Life for them.

Rom. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

We know that the Life spoken of here is Resurrected Life, and The Spirit saves them experientially giving them Faith Gal. 5:22.

Now all the rest of mankind God did not love; they are not Christ's brethren John 8:44, Ps. 37:28; Mat. 13:38, and so they shall never be quickened from the dead [born again] Saved by Grace and given Faith: But shall remain unregenerate, spiritually dead in trespasses and sins Eph. 2:1b their whole lifetime, simply because God did not ordain them to eternal life Acts 13:48 as all Christ's Brethren were; but instead to Everlasting Punishment Rev. 21:8 !

 

[JudgeRightly]

Yes I see it Brother ! Christ Loves all His Brethren Eph. 1:4,6, and shall Quicken every one of them, the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5; make them Spiritually Alive at some point in their lifetime Eph. 2:4-5, 8; because even while they were enemies and unbelievers, Christ laid down His Life for them.

Rom. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

We know that the Life spoken of here is Resurrected Life, and The Spirit saves them experientially giving them Faith Gal. 5:22.

Now all the rest of mankind God did not love; they are not Christ's brethren John 8:44, Ps. 37:28; Mat. 13:38, and so they shall never be quickened from the dead [born again] Saved by Grace and given Faith: But shall remain unregenerate, spiritually dead in trespasses and sins Eph. 2:1b their whole lifetime, simply because God did not ordain them to eternal life Acts 13:48 as all Christ's Brethren were; but instead to Everlasting Punishment Rev. 21:8 !

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. - John 3:16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John3:16&version=NKJV

What you say contradicts the Bible. Plain and simple.

 

[beloved57]

Yes I see it Brother ! Christ Loves all His Brethren Eph. 1:4,6, and shall Quicken every one of them, the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5; make them Spiritually Alive at some point in their lifetime Eph. 2:4-5, 8; because even while they were enemies and unbelievers, Christ laid down His Life for them.

Rom. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

We know that the Life spoken of here is Resurrected Life, and The Spirit saves them experientially giving them Faith Gal. 5:22.

Now all the rest of mankind God did not love; they are not Christ's brethren John 8:44, Ps. 37:28; Mat. 13:38, and so they shall never be quickened from the dead [born again] Saved by Grace and given Faith: But shall remain unregenerate, spiritually dead in trespasses and sins Eph. 2:1b their whole lifetime, simply because God did not ordain them to eternal life Acts 13:48 as all Christ's Brethren were; but instead to Everlasting Punishment Rev. 21:8 !

Bless you Sister for receiving the Truth, and giving your blessed witness of the same !

 

[Nanja]

Bless you Sister for receiving the Truth, and giving your blessed witness of the same !

Praising God for that Brother; and also for You, and your relentless Preaching of the Truth over so many years which God caused me to receive with all readiness of Mind Acts 17:11, because of the Spirits Sanctifying Work in me 2 Thess. 2:13; after having been Given New Birth !

 

[Nanja]

The Love of God which is in Christ Jesus Our Lord !

Rom 8:39

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Those who are not of the Elect, are those who are hated as Esau [Rom 9:13], they are alienated from God's Love and always will be , that is why they shall have their portion in the Lake of Fire, or as Jesus states, the Damnation of Hell Matt 23:33

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Hell was made especially for them ! and they were made especially for hell..

Now These men here Jesus was speaking to, could not be those whom God Loved in Christ Jesus, stating that they cannot escape the damnation of Hell.

Also, If God's Love is in Christ Jesus, then how is it possible to be Loved of God as per Jn 3:16 without being Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the World ?

Exactly Brother ! Because the only Love of God is In Christ Jesus Eph. 1:4; Rom. 8:39, it's impossible for any which were not chosen In Union with Him to be any of The World that God Loved John 3:16, which is an Eternally Forgiven World.

2 Cor. 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The Oneness in Election that the Elect have being In Union within Christ [Head of the Body], even before they existed in time, is the same that they had with Adam [their Federal Head] before they actually existed. So for any to deny the election of Christ's Members before the world began, is to deny His Headship before the world began, which is heresy in of itself.

For He as The Head is before all things.

Col. 1:15-18

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


2 Cor. 5:19

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Rom. 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

This Chosen World's sins, being Eternally Loved by God, were Imputed to Christ from Everlasting Eph. 1:4-7; Is. 53:6 were never under any condemnation Rom. 8:1 !


However now, as you have shown Brother, there is also an eternally condemned world which God never loved Rom. 9:13; Mat. 23:33:

1 Cor. 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

For which world, it was God's Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11 for them to pay the price for their own sins in the lake of fire !

Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[beloved57]

Praising God for that Brother; and also for You, and your relentless Preaching of the Truth over so many years which God caused me to receive with all readiness of Mind Acts 17:11, because of the Spirits Sanctifying Work in me 2 Thess. 2:13; after having been Given New Birth !

Amen and Amen Sister !