The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[marke]

More on the word That, to denote purpose and result in the death of Christ Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Jesus gave Himself for us so that he might redeem us from all iniquity. Jesus died for the sins of the world so that they might be saved.

1. John 3:17
   For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
   
   
2. John 5:34
   But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
   
   
3. Romans 10:1
   Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
   
   
4. 1 Thessalonians 2:16
   Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
   
   
5. 2 Thessalonians 2:10
   And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

 

[beloved57]

Jesus gave Himself for us so that he might redeem us from all iniquity. Jesus died for the sins of the world so that they might be saved.

1. John 3:17
   For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
   
   
2. John 5:34
   But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
   
   
3. Romans 10:1
   Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
   
   
4. 1 Thessalonians 2:16
   Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
   
   
5. 2 Thessalonians 2:10
   And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

So He gave His life to redeem the church from all iniquity, which He successfully did. So if one is never redeemed from all iniquity, they werent one Christ died for, less you say Christ ailed in His intention and purpose ! He came up short !

 

[beloved57]

Who is He redeeming?

"US."

Who is "us," b57?

Us is the Church, the called out ones, who become believers.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Us is the Church, the called out ones, who become believers.

So does He redeem those who do not believe after being called?

 

[marke]

So He gave His life to redeem the church from all iniquity, which He successfully did. So if one is never redeemed from all iniquity, they werent one Christ died for, less you say Christ ailed in His intention and purpose ! He came up short !

The Bible says Jesus gave His life to redeem the church. The Bible also says Jesus gave His life for the sins of the whole world so that whosoever would believe in Jesus could be saved.

 

[beloved57]

The Bible says Jesus gave His life to redeem the church. The Bible also says Jesus gave His life for the sins of the whole world so that whosoever would believe in Jesus could be saved.

Those Christ gave His life for, they were redeemed from all iniquity, which means they are redeemed from unbelief which is an iniquity !

 

[JudgeRightly]

Those Christ gave His life for, they were redeemed from all iniquity, which means they are redeemed from unbelief which is an iniquity!

Christ gave His life for the ungodly. And there's no qualifying statement attached to "ungodly" in that passage. But that death is not applied to all the ungodly, only those who believe after they are called.

 

[beloved57]

Christ gave His life for the ungodly. And there's no qualifying statement attached to "ungodly" in that passage. But that death is not applied to all the ungodly, only those who believe after they are called.

In case you wernt aware the redeemed were ungodly. Christ redeemed them from ungodliness and unbelief.

 

[JudgeRightly]

In case you weren't aware the redeemed were ungodly.

Duh. But I was referencing the verse where Paul says, explicitly, "Christ died for the ungodly."

Christ redeemed them from ungodliness and unbelief.

Obviously.

But I'm not talking about the "ungodly who were redeemed" only, and neither was Paul, or at the very least, he didn't specify if he was talking about a specific group of ungodly people that would eventually be redeemed, aka "only the ungodly who were redeemed," he simply said "Christ died for the ungodly."

Which brings me back to my point:

Christ's death is not applied to all the ungodly, only those who believe after they are called.

 

[marke]

Those Christ gave His life for, they were redeemed from all iniquity, which means they are redeemed from unbelief which is an iniquity !

Yes, Christ died to redeem the church and Christ died to reconcile the whole world unto Himself. Failure to understand what that means is no excuse for ignoring or rejecting clear passages which inform us that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world so that He could take away the sin of the world.

John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[beloved57]

Do you, my friend, believe that Jesus Christ died for the sins of all men without exception? Perhaps many who read this will answer, Yes. I then ask you, Why are not all men without exception saved? You will probably respond, because they do not believe in Jesus Christ. I will respond that if Christ died for all their sins, He died for their sin of unbelief, and taketh it away as well Jn 1:29, hence as Saviour from sin, He must save from unbelief Matt 1:21. If Christ died for all ones sins, then they must not die for them, for dying in unbelief is equivalent to dying in all your sins Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

You see that, if you die in unbelief, you die in your sins, which supposedly Christ has already died for and satisfied Gods Eternal justice for. In this instance one makes God unjust for punishing someone's sins twice, in Christ their Surety and then in themselves, that's unjust to Christ the Saviour, who suffered and died and the sinner He suffered and died for. However we know God is a Just God and Saviour Isa 45:21

Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

 

[marke]

Do you, my friend, believe that Jesus Christ died for the sins of all men without exception? Perhaps many who read this will answer, Yes. I then ask you, Why are not all men without exception saved? You will probably respond, because they do not believe in Jesus Christ. I will respond that if Christ died for all their sins, He died for their sin of unbelief, and taketh it away as well Jn 1:29, hence as Saviour from sin, He must save from unbelief Matt 1:21. If Christ died for all ones sins, then they must not die for them, for dying in unbelief is equivalent to dying in all your sins Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

You see that, if you die in unbelief, you die in your sins, which supposedly Christ has already died for and satisfied Gods Eternal justice for. In this instance one makes God unjust for punishing someone's sins twice, in Christ their Surety and then in themselves, that's unjust to Christ the Saviour, who suffered and died and the sinner He suffered and died for. However we know God is a Just God and Saviour Isa 45:21

Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

God does not say every sinner will be saved because He reconciled the world unto Himself. God says every sinner must also reconcile himself to God in spite of the fact that God has already reconciled the world unto Himself.

2 Corinthians 5

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God

 

[beloved57]

God does not say every sinner will be saved because He reconciled the world unto Himself. God says every sinner must also reconcile himself to God in spite of the fact that God has already reconciled the world unto Himself.

2 Corinthians 5

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God

You still dont get it !

 

[marke]

You still dont get it !

No sinner gets "in Christ" just because God reconciled the world unto Himself. A sinner must repent of his sins and come to Jesus for forgiveness to be reconciled to God or he will never enter heaven.

 

[beloved57]

No sinner gets "in Christ" just because God reconciled the world unto Himself. A sinner must repent of his sins and come to Jesus for forgiveness to be reconciled to God or he will never enter heaven.

Man I dont know what you talking about !

 

[beloved57]

Lets observe some inconsistency in light of the fact if as alleged Christ died for all without exception. Since its stated He died for our sins, the following would be true:

We would end up with the awful deceitful teaching of universalism, which teaches everyone without exception shall be saved. This cannot be accurate however because scripture teaches us that some shall be lost and damned. Lets ponder Matt 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matt 7:13-14

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The greek word for destruction apōleia means:

1. destroying, utter destruction
   1. of vessels
2. a perishing, ruin, destruction
   1. of money
   2. the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell

Lets look at Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:



Jesus states to some that they shall die in their sins Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

So we know this inconsistency is not true according to the scripture.

 

[marke]

Lets observe some inconsistency in light of the fact if as alleged Christ died for all without exception. Since its stated He died for our sins, the following would be true:

We would end up with the awful deceitful teaching of universalism, which teaches everyone without exception shall be saved. This cannot be accurate however because scripture teaches us that some shall be lost and damned. Lets ponder Matt 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matt 7:13-14

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The greek word for destruction apōleia means:

1. destroying, utter destruction
   1. of vessels
2. a perishing, ruin, destruction
   1. of money
   2. the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell

Lets look at Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:



Jesus states to some that they shall die in their sins Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

So we know this inconsistency is not true according to the scripture.

The erroneous doctrine you keep touting assumes God has to save everyone Jesus died for, which is a lie.

 

[beloved57]

The erroneous doctrine you keep touting assumes God has to save everyone Jesus died for, which is a lie.

You still dont comprehend

 

[JudgeRightly]

Do you believe that Jesus Christ died for the sins of all men without exception?

Yes.

Why are not all men without exception saved?

Because Christ's death is not automatically applied to all men. It is only applied to those who believe.

I will respond that if Christ died for all their sins, He died for their sin of unbelief,

Again, His death is only applied to those who believe.

If they believe, they are no longer committing the sin of unbelief.

and taketh it away as well Jn 1:29, hence as Saviour from sin, He must save from unbelief

And he does, if they believe.

If they do not believe, then Christ's death is not applied to their account.

Matt 1:21. If Christ died for all ones sins, then they must not die for them, for dying in unbelief is equivalent to dying in all your sins Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

No. Dying in all one's sins is a RESULT of not believing when one dies. It's not "equivalent."

You see that, if you die in unbelief, you die in your sins, which supposedly Christ has already died for and satisfied Gods Eternal justice for. In this instance one makes God unjust for punishing someone's sins twice, in Christ their Surety and then in themselves, that's unjust to Christ the Saviour, who suffered and died and the sinner He suffered and died for.

It's not unjust if God tells us that in order to be saved from one's sins, one must believe, and thus, if someone does NOT believe, it is therefore not unjust for God to not save them from their sins, even though He died for their sins.

 

[beloved57]

Yes.



Because Christ's death is not automatically applied to all men. It is only applied to those who believe.



Again, His death is only applied to those who believe.

If they believe, they are no longer committing the sin of unbelief.



And he does, if they believe.

If they do not believe, then Christ's death is not applied to their account.



No. Dying in all one's sins is a RESULT of not believing when one dies. It's not "equivalent."



It's not unjust if God tells us that in order to be saved from one's sins, one must believe, and thus, if someone does NOT believe, it is therefore not unjust for God to not save them from their sins, even though He died for their sins.

Sure its unjust for God to punish any sinner for sin or sins that He has already punished Christ for !