The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[JudgeRightly]

Sure its unjust for God to punish any sinner for sin or sins that He has already punished Christ for !

Only if that person has had Christ's death applied to him.

Otherwise, it IS just to punish someone for their sin that has not been washed away by Christ's blood.

Again: Christ's death, which covered the cost of the sins of the whole world (yes, every human being that has, does, and ever will exist), is NOT automatically applied to the whole world, it is only applied to those who believe and confess. Romans 10:9-15

 

[beloved57]

Only if that person has had Christ's death applied to him.

Otherwise, it IS just to punish someone for their sin that has not been washed away by Christ's blood.

Again: Christ's death, which covered the cost of the sins of the whole world (yes, every human being that has, does, and ever will exist), is NOT automatically applied to the whole world, it is only applied to those who believe and confess. Romans 10:9-15

Again, if God punishes anyone for sin/sins that Christ has already been punished for, that makes God unjust. And we know plenty of folk will die in their sins Jn 8:24, the reason being, Christ didnt die for them, and so justice for them still must be satisfied.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Again, if God punishes anyone for sin/sins that Christ has already been punished for, that makes God unjust.

Of course.

The problem YOU have yet to show a solution to is your claim that Christ's death is automatically applied to the world, according to YOUR definition of the world.

MY position, however, is that Christ's death is NOT automatically applied to the world, Because the Bible says that God loved the world and sent His Son, so that through Him the world might be saved.

And we know plenty of folk will die in their sins Jn 8:24,

Indeed.

the reason being, Christ didnt die for them,

Nope. Christ died for the world. But not all the world will believe in Him, and therefore will not be saved.

and so justice for them still must be satisfied.

Justice is satisfied by either the person going to hell, or by Christ's death being applied to them when they believe.

 

[beloved57]

Of course.

The problem YOU have yet to show a solution to is your claim that Christ's death is automatically applied to the world, according to YOUR definition of the world.

MY position, however, is that Christ's death is NOT automatically applied to the world, Because the Bible says that God loved the world and sent His Son, so that through Him the world might be saved.



Indeed.



Nope. Christ died for the world. But not all the world will believe in Him, and therefore will not be saved.



Justice is satisfied by either the person going to hell, or by Christ's death being applied to them when they believe.

Theres no problem, except in your mind. If Christ has died for a persons sins, that person has no sins to die for, they must be made alive. Now we know many will die in their sins Jn 8:24, so quite frankly Christ never died for their sins. God isnt unjust to punish a person twice for the same sins.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Theres no problem, except in your mind. If Christ has died for a persons sins, that person has no sins to die for, they must be made alive.

False, and you have yet to show that Christ did not die for the entire world.

Whereas I have John 3:16-17 that says God sent His Son to die for the world to save the world.

Now we know many will die in their sins Jn 8:24,

Indeed they shall, because they have rejected having His death applied to them.

so quite frankly Christ never died for their sins.

Non-sequitur.

God isnt unjust to punish a person twice for the same sins.

God will cast into the lake of fire those who reject having Christ's death applied to them.

 

[marke]

Sure its unjust for God to punish any sinner for sin or sins that He has already punished Christ for !

If so, then it unjust for God to create sinners who cannot change for the sole purpose of burning them in wrath in hell forever for committing sins.

 

[beloved57]

If so, then it unjust for God to create sinners who cannot change for the sole purpose of burning them in wrath in hell forever for committing sins.

An attack on God, not wise friend.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Dr. Leighton Flowers answers the question: "Whom did Christ die for?"

 

[ok doser]

Dr. Leighton Flowers answers the question: "Whom did Christ die for?"

He died for me

 

[beloved57]

Lets hear the conclusion if the matter, if Christs death was supposedly for all without exception, knowing and realizing that all without exception shall be saved, then at best Christs death only made men savable or redeemable, and it didn't actually save or redeem anyone ! And this would be totally against scripture. For such a sentiment deprives Christ from being the only Saviour of sinners.

 

[beloved57]

The biblical teaching however of the death of Christ is that Christs death was for a definite people, the elect, sheep, His church, them chosen and given to Him by the Father before the foundation, in order to save and redeem them Eph 1:3-7

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

 

[marke]

The biblical teaching however of the death of Christ is that Christs death was for a definite people, the elect, sheep, His church, them chosen and given to Him by the Father before the foundation, in order to save and redeem them Eph 1:3-7

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

The song of the few and the proud - the elect:

We thank thee O Great Lord and Master for showing mercy on us alone for no reason related to human repentance. We thank thee for choosing us to save out of all the billions in the world you have justly condemned to burn in hell forever for refusing to come to Jesus for salvation.

 

[Nanja]

The biblical teaching however of the death of Christ is that Christs death was for a definite people, the elect, sheep, His church, them chosen and given to Him by the Father before the foundation, in order to save and redeem them Eph 1:3-7

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Amen Brother ! All God's Chosen that He Saves in Time, [His People/ Elect / Sheep/ Church], are the exact same ones Chosen in Him of the Father before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4; that He predestinated unto the adoption of children Eph. 1:5 by Jesus Christ to Himself; proving further, that these things are not according to the will or doings of any man, but were predestinated exclusively according to the Good Pleasure of God's Will: According to the praise of the Glory of His Grace Eph. 1:6, to have redemption through His Blood !

 

[beloved57]

Do you, my friend, believe that Jesus Christ died for the sins of all men without exception? Perhaps many who read this will answer, Yes. I then ask you, Why are not all men without exception saved? You will probably respond, because they do not believe in Jesus Christ. I will respond that if Christ died for all their sins, He died for their sin of unbelief, and taketh it away as well Jn 1:29, hence as Saviour from sin, He must save from unbelief Matt 1:21. If Christ died for all ones sins, then they must not die for them, for dying in unbelief is equivalent to dying in all your sins Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

You see that, if you die in unbelief, you die in your sins, which supposedly Christ has already died for and satisfied Gods Eternal justice for. In this instance one makes God unjust for punishing someone's sins twice, in Christ their Surety and then in themselves, that's unjust to Christ the Saviour, who suffered and died and the sinner He suffered and died for. However we know God is a Just God and Saviour Isa 45:21

Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

If the Son of God paid the price for all men yet some men perish in hell, then His cross does not save all for whom it was made. Then too it is not substitutionary, for if He bore the punishment of the reprobate—in their stead!—why do they perish? If some end up in hell for whom Christ died, then God punished their sins twice, once on the Lord Jesus and once on them. How can the infinitely just God require payment for sins twice? How can He demand punishment of the sinner in hell when satisfaction has already been made for his sins by Jesus? And how can some whom the Saviour delivered, reconciled, redeemed and ransomed dwell forever as God’s enemies in everlasting darkness in the bottomless pit of hell? Remember, there is no condemnation for those for whom Christ died (Rom. 8:34)! Rev angus stewart

 

[marke]

If the Son of God paid the price for all men yet some men perish in hell, then His cross does not save all for whom it was made. Then too it is not substitutionary, for if He bore the punishment of the reprobate—in their stead!—why do they perish? If some end up in hell for whom Christ died, then God punished their sins twice, once on the Lord Jesus and once on them. How can the infinitely just God require payment for sins twice? How can He demand punishment of the sinner in hell when satisfaction has already been made for his sins by Jesus? And how can some whom the Saviour delivered, reconciled, redeemed and ransomed dwell forever as God’s enemies in everlasting darkness in the bottomless pit of hell? Remember, there is no condemnation for those for whom Christ died (Rom. 8:34)! Rev angus stewart

Poor students of the Bible fail to fully comprehend God's plan of salvation for lost sinners. Jesus' death on the cross made it possible for God to forgive sins of repentant sinners, but His death on the cross was never meant to serve as a 'get-out-of-jail-free' card to anyone, especially rebels against God who refuse to repent of their sins and seek to be reconciled to God.

John 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[beloved57]

If Jesus Christ died for all without exception, there is only one reasonable conclusion except if you believe the equally erroneous doctrine of universalism, that all without exception shall be saved, and that is if He died for everyone, then Salvation is not conditioned solely on Christs Death and the Grace of God, but on man and what he decides or chooses to accept. Thats an assault on the saving death of Christ.

 

[marke]

If Jesus Christ died for all without exception, there is only one reasonable conclusion except if you believe the equally erroneous doctrine of universalism, that all without exception shall be saved, and that is if He died for everyone, then Salvation is not conditioned solely on Christs Death and the Grace of God, but on man and what he decides or chooses to accept. Thats an assault on the saving death of Christ.

Wrong. God took away the sin of the world by Jesus' death so He could forgive sinners who come to Him for salvation. Those who do not come to God for salvation will not be saved.

 

[JudgeRightly]

If Jesus Christ died for all without exception, there is only one reasonable conclusion except if you believe the equally erroneous doctrine of universalism, that all without exception shall be saved,

False dichotomy.

Your ignoring the possibility that Christ died FOR all, but his death and resurrection is not AUTOMATICALLY APPLIED TO all. But that's a typical argument for a calvinist set in his ways.

I do not believe that "all without exception" will be saved, because I do not believe that Christ's resurrection is applied to all, only to those who believe.

Christ's death opened the door for all to repent to God. But God set the condition for Him to apply Christ's life to someone to be their placing their trust in Him.

and that is if He died for everyone, then Salvation is not conditioned solely on Christs Death and the Grace of God, but on man and what he decides or chooses to accept. Thats an assault on the saving death of Christ.

Nope.

Salvation is entirely of God, as I've told you before.

However, man's RESPONSE to God is entirely on man, not God.

 

[beloved57]

False dichotomy.

Your ignoring the possibility that Christ died FOR all, but his death and resurrection is not AUTOMATICALLY APPLIED TO all. But that's a typical argument for a calvinist set in his ways.

I do not believe that "all without exception" will be saved, because I do not believe that Christ's resurrection is applied to all, only to those who believe.

Christ's death opened the door for all to repent to God. But God set the condition for Him to apply Christ's life to someone to be their placing their trust in Him.



Nope.

Salvation is entirely of God, as I've told you before.

However, man's RESPONSE to God is entirely on man, not God.

No its true.

 

[marke]

No its true.

You think it's true but you are wrong.