graceandpeace
New member
Using your logic, the other 11 were the devil, too. Jesus said one of them was.
John 6:70 ...Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
Tell me, which one was He referring to?
The Two Gospels and Adoption, the Basis of Eternal Security
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
Using your logic, the other 11 were the devil, too. Jesus said one of them was.
John 6:70 ...Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
Tell me, which one was He referring to?
Bump for G&P.
It should be easy for you to comment on these figures. Including the one that said "don't take your Spirit from me".
graceandpeace
New member
Nick:
Nick, we have been through this before...I really don't want to argue, ok?
Grace is something ALL of us grow in. Do you agree with that?
If not, OK..but, in mho...all those whom are of faith; grow in understanding of what and HOW grace works.
graceandpeace
New member
How do you see the two gospel, notion, Ghost?
Your surrender is accepted.
No, because you have to believe the gospel first. I have never said anything about Christians and understanding. I have only said perverters of the gospel, and you know this. Or you really are stupid.
graceandpeace
New member
I am not stupid.
I believe MAD perverts the gospel...because it teaches two ways to 'a salvation'. Law and without law...you should clean up your own house.
Jude 1:3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.
That is an entirely incorrect assertion.
Maybe you shouldn't argue against dispensationalism until you know what it is. Just sayin'. :think:
Bob, through Knight: "Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ."
We all are able to be saved in Christ.
We all are able to be saved in Christ.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
As for the "two ways of salvation" that "MAD" allegedly believes in...we agree with Peter.
Acts 15
11: But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
One church looked ahead to the 2nd coming for salvation through the grace of Christ (the circumcision) and one church looks back for salvation through the grace of Christ (the uncircumcision). Two churches, two purposes, different timing of their salvation. This is the reason there is no "eternal security" for the circumcision (he that endureth to the end shall be saved), while there is "eternal security" for the uncircumcision (for by grace ye have been saved).
Acts 15
11: But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
One church looked ahead to the 2nd coming for salvation through the grace of Christ (the circumcision) and one church looks back for salvation through the grace of Christ (the uncircumcision). Two churches, two purposes, different timing of their salvation. This is the reason there is no "eternal security" for the circumcision (he that endureth to the end shall be saved), while there is "eternal security" for the uncircumcision (for by grace ye have been saved).
Bob through Knight: "In contrast, Paul’s commission did not include baptism. “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect” (1 Cor 1:17).
There was a different dispensation, that is, a different method of salvation. Peter and the eleven had the gospel of the circumcision. Paul had the gospel of the uncircumcision. The circumcision gospel was always associated with works for salvation. Paul’s gospel, according to Acts 16:31, was, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.” Paul was given a whole new program called the dispensation of the Mystery, or the dispensation of Grace. This is recorded in Ephesians 3:1-9.
For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles; 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the fellowship [oi*konomiva, dispensation] of the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages in God who created all things through Jesus Christ."
I agree, we are saved through Christ, yet does anyone find salvation without Him? Does any gospel deny that Jesus died for our salvation?
There was a different dispensation, that is, a different method of salvation. Peter and the eleven had the gospel of the circumcision. Paul had the gospel of the uncircumcision. The circumcision gospel was always associated with works for salvation. Paul’s gospel, according to Acts 16:31, was, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.” Paul was given a whole new program called the dispensation of the Mystery, or the dispensation of Grace. This is recorded in Ephesians 3:1-9.
For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles; 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the fellowship [oi*konomiva, dispensation] of the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages in God who created all things through Jesus Christ."
I agree, we are saved through Christ, yet does anyone find salvation without Him? Does any gospel deny that Jesus died for our salvation?
graceandpeace
New member
Knight:
I have studied 'dispensationalism'...for years. I know there are varying viewpoints contained within dispensationalism.
It is the major 'hyper' view that I strongly oppose. That which for example, John Hagee holds to.
What of this...do you agree with STP on this:
STP:
You are aware that the 'one' way to salvation, that is called the "circumcision", are saved by way of law, arent you?...Jesus told us to beware of the circumcision..He did not tell us that we could be saved, or find a 'salvation' through it. Only one circumcision that saves; and it is not by the law of circumcision..it is by the spirit of the true circumcision that the law only pointed to.
This is what I oppose..NO one will ever be saved by way of the law...why?
Because the law is NOT OF FAITH:
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith
and, without FAITH; it is impossible to please God:
Heb 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please Him.
There is only ONE gospel that IS of faith...and, that is why this so called, two gospels is a sham.
The church in the wilderness were those of FAITH prior to the cross...they are in the same body as those after the cross according to the word of God.
I pray that hyperdispensationalism finds it's death soon.
By the law is the knowledge of sin; and ALL have sinned.
btw; there is no such thing as a gospel that would dictate that one must endure to the end to BE saved.
The verse is not even speaking of the way to BE saved.
graceandpeace
New member
It is a sham...by the works of the law, shall NO Man be justified:
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Mad's theory that some can be saved by the works of the law is a sham.
Do not follow this teaching..it will lead you to believe that God can be mocked.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
G&P,
No one has said that the circumcision were saved by the law. You have serious reading comprehension problems.
No one has said that the circumcision were saved by the law. You have serious reading comprehension problems.
graceandpeace
New member
G&P,
No one has said that the circumcision were saved by the law. You have serious reading comprehension problems.
You do understand that the term "circumcision", in context of those whom were OF the circumcision means those whom are of the law, that were seeking to be justified by it, don't you?
You say I have huge reading problems.
Tit 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
There is only one gospel.
The gospel of the circumcision was a FALSE gospel, for crying out loud.
graceandpeace
New member
Everyone seems to stumble in the same way Israel did..at the law, and what it's purpose was/is.
There is nothing new under the sun.
The letter form had one purpose:
Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
Yet, we have a false teaching that would blindly think that a 'group' or body of believers could be saved by way of the law...(letter); no wonder the church is in such a mess.
Not knowing or discerning rightly the Body of Christ, was spoken of:
1 Cr 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
1Cr 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup.
1Cr 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Cr 11:30 For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Cr 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1Cr 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
To wrongly use the law, brings about condemnation; just as the whole world stands condemned by the law; as Paul said, to state differently, and to change the ONE gospel, to make it into two, does harm to His body.
There is nothing new under the sun.
The letter form had one purpose:
Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
Yet, we have a false teaching that would blindly think that a 'group' or body of believers could be saved by way of the law...(letter); no wonder the church is in such a mess.
Not knowing or discerning rightly the Body of Christ, was spoken of:
1 Cr 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
1Cr 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup.
1Cr 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Cr 11:30 For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Cr 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1Cr 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
To wrongly use the law, brings about condemnation; just as the whole world stands condemned by the law; as Paul said, to state differently, and to change the ONE gospel, to make it into two, does harm to His body.
graceandpeace
New member
There is only ONE circumcision that has salvation:
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
Those whom were trying to be saved by the circumcision under the law, were false brethren entered in making mockery of the ONE true circumcision that began with our father Abraham, whom did NOT hold to the fleshly one; but only by reason of a shadow that pointed to the true; for verily he was circumcised in heart; way before the shadow of the fleshly one, began:
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,
Rom 4:12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.
Rom 4:13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect,
which is why this is written:
acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye.
Fleshly circumcision was merely a shadow of the true one that Abraham, and all those whom walked by FAITH were of.
All saints are of this circumcision, and without faith, it is impossible to believe God, and there is no such thing as a 'circumcision of the law that saves'..it is heresy, 101
They were the false brethren...whom were perverting the gospel of grace; that is faith that worketh by love...that of the spirit; NOT of the letter.
The letter only KILLS, and because man does not know the difference of two forms of law; we have today varying degrees of falsehood in the church.
All based on one thing. A lack of knowledge of the PURPOSE of the law, and how no one can be saved in and through it.
Two gospels ....BAHHUMBUG!
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
Those whom were trying to be saved by the circumcision under the law, were false brethren entered in making mockery of the ONE true circumcision that began with our father Abraham, whom did NOT hold to the fleshly one; but only by reason of a shadow that pointed to the true; for verily he was circumcised in heart; way before the shadow of the fleshly one, began:
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,
Rom 4:12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.
Rom 4:13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect,
which is why this is written:
acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye.
Fleshly circumcision was merely a shadow of the true one that Abraham, and all those whom walked by FAITH were of.
All saints are of this circumcision, and without faith, it is impossible to believe God, and there is no such thing as a 'circumcision of the law that saves'..it is heresy, 101
They were the false brethren...whom were perverting the gospel of grace; that is faith that worketh by love...that of the spirit; NOT of the letter.
The letter only KILLS, and because man does not know the difference of two forms of law; we have today varying degrees of falsehood in the church.
All based on one thing. A lack of knowledge of the PURPOSE of the law, and how no one can be saved in and through it.
Two gospels ....BAHHUMBUG!
Some people who are circumcised have salvation.
Romans 15:8 For I say that Christ has become a servant to the circumcision on behalf of the truth of God to confirm the promises given to the fathers,
"My view is there is only one gospel..."-GP
You made that up. On record:you assert Judas preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4, since "there is only one gospel,"a "one gospel" he did not know about, much less believed. Ae you a mystic?
What a mess.